You have to know what you’re dealing with in this situation. These are peaceful people who mean no harm to anyone. They may get agitated or seem combative, but they’re merely trying to stand up for their rights or the rights of others. Finding your authority challenged in such a way is something you probably don’t deal with as often as you probably should. As more and more people learn what their rights are and how to assert them you are going to encounter these situations more and more.
So what do you do? You could find some excuse to arrest this person, maybe even attempt to entrap them into not obeying you or something else that’s not really a crime but just a misinterpretation of the law. You might get them off the street for a day or 2, but these charges will likely not stand up in court and will cost the taxpayer in man hours and crowd courts and prison cells better used for real criminals. Then again, you’ll have to admit your own time is probably better used dealing with real criminals. Probably the most upsetting part of dealing with activists is they’re wasting your time. You’d really rather not be there.
Most people would be deterred by such police actions. However, activists aren’t. This only gives them something else to protest against. They take the immediacy of the situation as a call to action and proceed to come to the aid of someone being arrested.
Since arrests don’t deter this behavior and instead encourage it, you’d be much better off not making arrests and just walking away. This is where discretion comes into play and this is not the time to try to lay down your authority because it will only make the situation worse, for you, for them, for the taxpayer.
Activists, educate yourself first.
Film film film film film. Absolutely exercise your right to film anything inpublic (I exercise that same right all the time). But keep in mind, your right to film doesn’t give you the right to interject, impede, or block the police (or anyone else).
The problem always comes when someone decides to interject themselves into a sitaution that doesn’t concern them. The interjection means, in for a penny, in for a pound. Yuo can’t put yourself in and then when it turns on you jump out. Remember, it was your free choice to get involved. Also keep in mind that once you decide to get involved anything you film (especially any crime, even if you are commiting it) will be subject to seizure as evidence. Don’t cry. And here’s a quick tip….if you do film something, and the police seize it (or want to) and you want it back and to not lose the camera, help them download a copy.
Keep in mind, it goes both ways. Your free choice can get you in trouble. Stand back and film. If you film something wrong, post it here, call the media, file the complaint. But if you involved yourself any further, it is at your own risk.
The problem does exsist though.. is that I have no idea if you are harmless or not. 2 weeks ago, 2 cops in seperate incidents were killed by people who were simply bystanders to what the cops were doing. Neither had any involvment in what the police were doing. One was a stop, the other was a simple “routine” call. Bad guys simply walked up and shot the police.
I tried posting a story, but obviously anything I suggest get added goes straight into the trash.
I nor any other cop has any idea what your intentions are. While I disagree with any cop that tells you to stop filming. I think it’s well within any cops right to ask you to back up. And I suggest to everyone to keep there distance because you might run into that dumbass cop who doesn’t want to be on camera. Wouldn’t you prefer to film the stop, rather be a star in it?…………..that is, unless you whole intent for going out there is to goat the police into arresting you.
http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/452788.html
St. Louis did it right.
psosgt your mentality is showing
Very good post PSOSGT. Your post shows that there are police who “get it” and understand it is not like yesterday. The world has moved forward, and though most of the time governmental agencies don’t move as fast, it is nice to see that at least one officer understands.
I agree that if you are going to film the police, then keep your distance. That what the zoom lens is for. I use my 300mm zoom all the time. While I can’t always pick up the audio part of the conversation, I do get the video and I am far enough away from the incident that the police could never say I was interfering with their duties, nor can I even accidentally put myself in the middle of something.
Asking someone to back up, step back to a “reasonable” distance while filming is acceptable.
But the problem there in, is who determines acceptable or reasonable distance?
Do we define it per se?
Or leave that to a judge selectively?
If the latter we still have the problem of false arrests when we ask the cops to apply their own standards to a given yet ambiguous law.
Officer safety is a legitimate and reasonable concern but far too often its used to justify the justifiable. A good example was the DoJ study that just came out of California which looked into what is called “waist band shootings”.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/23/local/la-me-unarmed-shootings-20110923
Shootings where officers justified their use of deadly force by saying a suspect was “reaching towards their waist band”…
Not surprisingly the DoJ found that in well over half of all those shootings the person was unarmed.
Now I’ll be the first to admit that people are not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas Tree and do truly stupid things from time to time… but this finding is alarming.
Then we had a story out of Las Vegas which detailed how every single shooting in Las Vegas Metro Area by the PD has been ruled justified by its investigating body, many of those shootings were horrific and seriously questionable. Many resulted in massive civil lawsuits… and yet not a single one was ruled unjustified, even in the face of video, audio and many, many witnesses saying other wise…
http://www.lvrj.com/news/deadly-force/always-justified/
Now we have the US DoJ releasing a report detailing how 1 out of every 5 times the Seattle PD uses force its unconstitutional…
http://reason.com/blog/2011/12/16/department-of-justice-one-in-five-uses-o
In Oakland PD a similar study found that 1 out of every 3 times they used force it was unconstitutional…
It seems we have a serious problem with LE in this country, as I’ve said many times before… all the evidence to support this claim is right in front of your eyes…
And now, with the filming issue we have yet another point of questionable actions by the cops in this country…
The entire LEO community is in serious need or drastic overhaul and oversight. We need to rethink how we train our cops, the standards to which we look to hire from and how they are investigated once a claim of misconduct or criminal actions occurs.
The police as a whole are resisting any and all attempts at change of any kind, and this is what has spurred the US DoJ into action. The civil rights division of the DoJ just assigned (Oct 2011) over 200 lawyers and 400 investigators to begin a wide scope inquiry of police departments all across this country beginning in Jan 2012… something that has been long needed.
Because the police resisted any and all change in the last 10 years at the urging of the US DoJ, they will now begin to suffer for that… and I can’t say that I’m sorry for them either…
You reap what you sow…
Once this whole filming of cops reaches the US Supreme Court it will be decided once and for all, and I’ll bet you a steak dinner it’ll be in favor of the 1st Amendment with minimal language about officer safety anywhere near the opinion.
But that too will be the fault of the police for not applying common sense and logic before arresting someone for something that isn’t a crime at all…
PSOSGT, is saying the same thing the cops will say to you if they dont want to be filmed. How many videos have we all seen, where a cop leaves the scene, walks across the street, to say you are interfearing with his investigation. You cops need to learn that just because you “SUGGEST” we do what you say, what you really mean is, “do what I say” or I’ll call six of my friends and we will film ourselves beating you bloody, so you can sue the city, maybe get some money for yourself, because we dont care,it wont cost us a dime. Because thats the real penalty for not doing what the ALL MIGHTY OZ says. SO maybe next time, you back off, and leave people filming you alone. YOU DONT HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASSAULT PEOPLE,AND EXAGGERATE THE CHARGES, YOU JUST THINK YOU DO! So heres some advice to pass on to your friends. “KNOCK IT OFF”
This represents the gene pool the sycophants-in-blue are drawn from;
http://www.nationofchange.org/us-military-discards-trove-documents-2005-haditha-massacre-iraqis-1324477793
Any questions?
Too the many that replied. If a cop walks across the street and approaches u and your camera. Depending on what’s going on. I would say that cop is wrong. I think being across the street gives a cop plenty of room.
And to tennessee. I can’t find it now…and it’s pissing me off, but there was an article I read just about 6 hours ago looking at this years shootings. Was talking about how alot of them are ambush style attacks, and many are “assasinations”. where the cop is killed by someone who isn’t involved in the complaint as I stated above. I spent a good 20 minutes looking but I read it on my home computer and I’m at work now.
And dougo. what mentality is that? The mentality that I want to make sure I make it home every morning to my 6 year old daughter? I’ve been filmed a bunch of times. I’ve never had a problem with anyone. I’ve asked people to back up 10, 20 feet nicely and let them know that I’m ok with them filming, and they back up and film.
Call it my “safety circle” or what ever you want. Bottom line, when I’m working I’m responsible for what happens in that circle, and that includes me. Even the cheapest of camera’s and phone can take a good picture from a distance.
And idiot.. how many vid’s have we seen where nothing happens? Not many, cause when nothing happens, no one runs to thier coputors to upload it. The news ain’t going to want to air it, and no on will talk about it. Now if something does happen, it’ll be all over the place, posted and reposted over and over and over again.
PSOSGT, From what i’ve read of your comments, you sound more good than bad. My problem is, most of those videos tell a different story,then the police report. I dont see many videos showing one cop beating somebody, its always many, some beating, some tazing, some macing, and some watching. Like what you said, I hear cops say “Its for my safety” or “I have a family to go home to.” Nobody deserves to be beat or die,We all have families. I believe cops can see who will be trouble,and who wont, most people can.Like you said, when you ask nicely, people move for you. Humans rather be asked,then be told. …I just read a funny quote, “You get more from a smile and a gun, then you do with just a smile. “Al Capone” (hope you thought it was funny)
It has been upheld in multiple courts of law that people are allowed to film public officials in public. What about on my private property?
Specifically, if a cop turns up at my door and starts asking questions, can I film them using cameras installed on my property? And am I required to advise the officer that he/ she is being filmed?
@ haveaquestion
it mostly depends on your state. if you live in a 2 party state then you have to inform ANYONE that is on your property that you are filming. often times a sign indicating the property is being audio/video recorded is enough warning. but if you dont live in a 2 party state, Cops have no expectation of privacy so filming them on your property is no different than the street.