Since posting my first blog here I have received a lot of responses.
Some in support and some thinking I am conducting some sort of covert operation. Given that the website is a public forum where people shine a light on corruption and give their views on the Government and the Constitution I am failing to see where someone could articulate what exactly could come from “Infiltrating” this group. What I know about Cop Block and its contributors comes from watching videos on YouTube as well as seeing videographers on a few occasions back in my uniformed days.
I am going to attempt in this blog to give some insight into why I feel that not all LEO’s are the same and more specifically why I feel that I am different. In all started back in the fall of 1973…. just kidding. Police Officers are tasked with enforcing the laws put in place by our elected officials. it’s easy to say that if we don’t like the laws we have then we need to change them but those that are elected to make such changes are often times elected because they ” Purchased” that position. That is a shame.
When I went to the academy I learned about of a lot of things from patrol tactics to use of force and obviously the law. Those aren’t the only things taught in the Police Academy but for the purposes of this blog I gave some examples. One of the biggest “Terms” I learned was” Officer Discretion”. To me that’s the most powerful tool in my arsenal. It allows me to decide if you’re getting that speeding ticket or just a warning. It offers me the ability to take in all the facts and evidence and PERSONALLY decide what action I deem necessary.
Is it legal to possess weed without a medical Marijuana card (if your state allows that)?. No it’s not legal. Is an arrestable offense? Yes it is. Is it MANDATORY to arrest someone in possession of weed? Well It depends, is it a joint or 500lbs. In the case of having a joint it’s not mandatory and is an Officer Discretion situation. I believe that the Discretion is often times abused because it allows an officers personal emotions to be considered when making his or her decisions which I believe goes beyond the scope.
Now, I mention discretion for several reasons. It’s a small example if why I disagree when people say we are political robots that do what we are told whether we agree with it or not. That’s just not the case in my opinion. When a Judge says ” Officer I order you to arrest Ademo Freeman because he called me an asshole in the parking lot”. it’s an order from a Judge but aside from the question of whether it’s a lawful order or not, I still have both a choice and discretion. I can choose to KNOWINGLY violate Ademo’s Civil Rights by carrying out the order OR use my Discretion and say” Your Honor I am not permitted to violate civil rights and I don’t see a crime so I am refusing to carry out your order and expose myself to criminal and civil litigation” which would be my response if in that situation. Even though I am Police Officer I still have the choice of how and when to use the powers I have been granted.
Another Example of why I am different is I encourage people to NOT talk to me when I am acting in an official capacity. I absolutely agree that when the Police come to your house to ask about anything. NO GOOD can come from that encounter. the prisons are full of innocent people that got hung up on a technicality. I believe that if I am going to build a case against you I should do it WITHOUT your help.
After all, I am accusing you of a crime and it’s crazy for you to help me prove you did it. It’s been argued that cops are cops 24/7 and never really “Off Duty” and to a certain degree that’s true. in most if not all jurisdictions a Certified Police Officer is obligate d to act and any FELONY committed in his presence anywhere in the state he is certified in regardless of duty status. I cannot speak for ALL LEO’s but I can speak for me. Am I in Cop mode all the time?.. Hell no, when I am off duty I spend my time relaxing and arguing with my daughter about reasonable access to the car.
When I am driving to the grocery store and see a car speeding do I pull him over or call it in? The answer is neither. I speed too, not because I am a cop but because its nearly impossible to stay UNDER the limit at all times. COP doesn’t mean BETTER or Above the law.
Now… here’s an example of a real “Off Duty” situation that happened to me in which I acted on a crime. My daughter and I were coming home from a Miley Cyrus Concert ( I love my daughter enough to endure this cruel and unusual punishment) and we stopped at a gas station on our way home to get some drinks.
The Concert and Gas station are 200 miles from my “Jurisdiction”. I don’t normally carry my weapon off duty but the area in which were going was a high gang activity area and known for slow police response and action so I was armed that night solely for the purposes of self defense of me and my daughter if needed. Anyway, we went into the gas station and while looking over the drink selection 2 men came in to rob the place. Long story short, I waited til the men left the gas station so I didn’t force a shoot out inside where my daughter or the Clerks could be killed and I engaged them outside. Nobody was shot and suspects were arrested.
We all know that a lot of the cops we see would seize an opportunity to use deadly force without regard to all the innocent people in that gas station.
I make myself available in this forum to answer questions and offer advice on dealing with Cops or interpreting video of them in action. not many LEO’s are lining up to do that. I have gone to protests as a protester. I challenge the readers of this blog and the visitors of this site to “Interview” me before lumping me into a category based solely on my occupation.
When I sat down to write this blog I had dozens of ways to difference but I then realized as I was writing that it would be easier to show if I let you put me on the spot and see for yourselves if I am a government Puppet or not. Can’t be any fairer than that.
Til Next time…..
Anyone who thinks every single person in any given group in society are always all exactly the same is just ridiculous. Someone making such a judgement on all LEO’s is no different than a cop thinking all protestors are jobless degenerates, etc. These things work both ways.
At any rate, I welcome this new line of LEO insight here. Honestly, I’d never heard of the term “constitution hugger” before reading yesterday’s post. Things like that can give us a better idea of how evil some people in law enforcement are and the rampant corruption that goes with it all.
VYPER- Thanks again for taking the time to blog with us and show a LEO’s View –Rob
Vyper — I think you’re brave and honorable for taking on such a challenge. It’s a tough crowd, as it were; BUT, I haven’t seen *many* cases (highlighted) on this site that aren’t well deserved criticize. And, it would be interesting to have someone “on the job” respond, with their perspective.
Now, my initial impression, from reading your two initial posts, is that you’re likely one of those “thinking man’s” police officers. — That’s always a welcome addition. For me, and I’m sure several others, I respect and appreciate you taking on this role — and look forward to your participation and perspective — Your opinions (and maybe counterpoints) will likely be very helpful (and while not always agreed with), and carefully considered.
It is nice to know that I am not the only LEO that feels this way. Thanks for getting this information out there VYPER. Cheers.
VYPER, can you give us an example of when you’ve reported other police for excessive force, coercion or otherwise violating the rights of the citizens they are supposed to protect and serve?
I’m assuming you’ve witnessed many such violations, how do you generally handle it when other cops are violating civil rights?
Difster- I testified in the Ohio supreme court in support of a Municipal Court Judge that was brought before a disciplinary board for Demanding the Police Chief submit sealed transcripts of text messages between a City Officer and a Woman he arrested for DUI. The text messages were allegedly sexual in nature on both sides and happening while the DUI case was pending. The Judge was worried that the Police would cover up the investigation and had he not demanded the records it very well may have been swept under the rug and compromised the case in court. The Chief Refused and the Prosecutor complained to the disciplinary Council and when I heard about it I asked to testify on the Judge’s behalf. I seen A LOT of Terrible Judges in my day but this one is rare in that he follows the law but is quick to work with defendants and give them chance after chance. He isnt perfect but in my opinion a good guy and Judge. If you havent seen the youtube video(s) about Canton Police Officer Daniel Harless, You should. I was first in line to pay a visit to Canton Police’s Internal Affairs about this officer and his “Terminator” type tactics and attitude. This man is a piece of shit and a danger to society. when you watch the Video of him involving the man with the CCW permit and gun, Daniel single handedly manages to justify every cop haters opinions. In my conversation with Canton PD I clearly stated that if I were to be stopped by this man and he threatened me like that, the ensuing shoot out would go just as viral. I have to end my opinion on Harless with that as it still make by blood boil to talk about it. Over the course of 17yrs I have witnessed bad policing but have been fortunate enough to not personally witness an Officer using excessive force. I have been involved in situations of Officers crossing the line in mistreating people and always and rather than wait for the impending citizen complaint I intervene and remedy the situation by calling out the Officer on the spot. I have been subpoenaed to testify in Civil Rights violation cases by Defense attorneys but never got to take the stand because of Prosecutor objection. the grounds of the objection and the such are still unknown to me because it was handled before I got there.
Thank you Zeek. too many good officers are silent on topics like this because they dont understand the alternative theories or opinions with regards to views on law enforcement and the government in general. I on the other hand readily admit I dont TOTALLY understand where some are coming from but if I want to learn, I have to GIVE if I want to RECEIVE
Myke I try to be a “Thinking Man’s” Officer. most situations im in afford me to ” Put myself in their shoe’s” and think what I would do if I were them. There are times when I am confronted with a situation where I have a split second to decide. the Prime example being responding to a call of a “Suspicious” person and while talking to him he becomes combative and says ” You better shoot me before I shoot YOU” and reaches inside his jacket. at this point I have to determine his intent, is his hand going to have a gun in it when it comes back into view?, is he going to shoot me?. if I havent already drawn my weapon at this point then I also have to draw and fire if im going to. all this is happening in a split second. The outcome could be bad on so many levels. Let’s say I draw and fire and he DIDNT have gun. while I could reasonably argue it was justifiable, I still have to live with the fact I shot and killed an unarmed man. in the alternative, I dont draw and Fire and he DOES have one and I am killed. aside from my family losing me, how many others will this man kill before being captured. I am greatful that those instances have been rare in career so far.
Thanks for speaking out and being open-minded.
Vyper: you’re my hero! I hope to be just like you one day. For sure.
I’ll interview this guy and I’ll tear him to pieces.
For starters, lets look at how ALL police are funded. Because police do not make their money through voluntary markets, the departments in question have no idea how much service to provide and to whom it should be provided. Further, if the police do a bad job they still get paid. They have no market incentive to act in the public’s best interest.
Pretty much all police belong to unions. This means that police can not be fired nearly as easily for bad behavior and their salaries/benefits are inflated compared to private security. This fact encourages bad behavior because cops know their chances of getting fired for pissing off a customer are next to zero.
Because all police departments are run the same way, we can make blanket statements about the lack of market (public) accountability. It doesn’t matter if some police are good or not, it only matters that individuals can not refuse to fund police departments that they don’t like. The people have no choice but to pay.
Consider that drug dealers would never willingly pay for police to arrest drug dealers, but murderers would pay to have police arrest murderers, because they themselves could be murdered. Police never bother to consider this when enforcing laws.
Further, lets look at his argument of “discretion”. Police should not have discretion, because the only laws that should exist should be property rights laws. This means that if someone’s rights are violated, the police must act to protect and defend the rights of the person’s whose rights were violated. Police do not have discretion when dealing with these kinds of crimes. Police only have discretion when it comes to the arbitrary victimless laws created by the State.
Those laws should not exist in the first place; therefore, the police should never have discretion.
Chew on that you looter.
You are a thief that makes his living by robbing people through the tax system. You are no better than those who you arrest.
Michael Suede- Police Officers have no control over where funding comes from but maybe your on to something. Let’s take away officer discretion so that EVERYTIME your caught speeding or in posession of an illegal substance your ticketed. then the money to “Fund” us is coming directly from the people and not from the taxes. I say that just to make a point about Officer discretion not being just a negative thing. The market incentive to act in the publics best interest is the Oath. Not every cop is bad and therefore cannot be held accountable for the actions of others because it says Police on their uniform.
Osama wore a turban and was CLEARLY a Terrorist so does that mean that ALL men wearing Turban’s are terrorists?. Susan Smith drove her car into a lake and drowned her kids so are ALL mother’s killers? The list goes on and on. People deem all cops evil because of the actions of a few because it says POLICE on all the uniforms. So using that Logic one could reason that since we are ALL citizens then ALL citizens are evil criminals because SOME choose to kill people. it’s this kind of logic and thinking in part that got us where we are today. Judge a man by his own actions and not by his apparel. Arguing over how tax dollars are allocated is not a Police issue.
Your statement about pretty much all police being union is very valid. not that the rest of your post isn’t but it’s the area we both AGREE on. The Police Unions are out of control and I have always felt that way. We are not given the option of not being in the union and thats wrong to me too. I dont agree that they make it hard to fire us for “Pissing” a customer off. Pissing someone off isnt a fireable offense even in most occupations. Keep in mind too that once you make Sergeant and above within the department you are NO LONGER in the union.
Comparing Police Salaries to Private Security’s is ridiculous. A Private security Officer is under no obligation to act on any criminal activity. and in most jurisdictions no powers to arrest. They are a valuable asset, dont get me wrong but when they see something or witness a crime being committed who do they call? US. Many of them face the same Dangers we do but not nearly as often. Most of them receive no training and without training theres no standard to hold them too. Do I think they should be minimum wage jobs?. No I dont because by wearing the uniform it puts them at risk. But to compare salaries is alittle over the top in my opinion.
” A Private security Officer is under no obligation to act on any criminal activity. ”
On that you are very wrong my friend.
If they want to keep their job, they must defend the property and people they are charged to protect.
I was a PSO for a private university and a bar bouncer. I took my job to protect those kids very seriously, because if I didn’t, I would have been fired immediately.
based on my earlier quote your absolutely correct. I meant that they are under no LEGAL obligation to act. for clarity sake, if a PSO is guarding an Apartment complex and observes an assault in progress. He is not legally obligated to intervene in that assault. Whether or not he could be fired for not intervening is another matter but he is not subject to Penalty under the ” Duty to Act”. now, same circumstances except instead of a PSO it’s a local Police Officer on Patrol. The officer MUST intervene and stop the assault in progress.
VYPER, court case after court case has proven that police are also under no legal obligation to “serve and protect.” They may be required in intervene if there is a felony in process in a few states, but not most.
I agree with MS that the economic incentives for police are all messed up. Just look at asset forfeiture laws. There was a report done in TN on how the State Troopers there were not really patrolling the side of the freeway where the drugs were being shipped, but rather the side where the money was making the return trip. If they find drugs, they don’t get to sell them and keep the money.
There was an audio recording earlier this year on a bust in a basement recording studio where only small amounts of marijuana were found and the cops were discussing which stuff they thought they wanted under the name of asset forfeiture.
The police should not be able to “profit” from drug busts, etc. because it definitely provides the wrong incentives both from a misconduct standpoint (false charges, planting evidence, etc) and from a justice standpoint because police departments are far more likely to focus on crimes that they can profit from (which are victimless generally) instead of actual crimes of property rights violations (including the property of self).
@ Difster
I was recently made aware of case law supporting your statement about not having a duty to protect and serve. I think its kind of a catch 22. if I were in uniform and saw someone being beaten to death, the bystanders will say ” Arent you going to do something?” or ” What do we pay you for” if I dont act on that offense. I don’t need a law or policy or support when I see a person being physically assaulted by another. in the literal sense of being assaulted. I realize that there are people that believe that LEO’s using any force to effect a lawful arrest is assault. I cannot say whether they are right or wrong because who am I to judge someones interpretation?. I will act on that assault. to include if I saw an Officer slap a camera out of your hand for recording him, I would file that charges myself. what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. With regards to the war on drugs example. I agree that most agencies go after the money more often and I think that any drug monies seized should go into a fund and then hold a ballot and let the public vote on how the funds should be allocated. I am not aware of any agency’s that have been able to use drug money for raises or personal gains. When I was a Road cop any money we seized from drug busts was put into a seperate fund from the budget and used to purchase equipment like cruisers and body armor and the such but couldnt be used for salary increases or the department x-mas party. but because I am not clear and what can or cant be done with seized money, I think it shows more transparency if the public decide how its used. I agree and have commented before that with regards to drugs, what you do in your own home should be your business as long as no children are present and unfortuantely at this time drugs are illegal regardless of where you have them. I dont recall a single arrest I made for possession of a joint or small amoount of marijuana. While I have never tried any drugs, I cant see how arresting and spending 100′s of taxpayer dollars to prosecute 5.00 worth of weed is seeking justice. I just cant see myself going home and thinking ” I am the Best cop in the world for getting a microgram of weed off the streets”.
The only course of action for a “good cop” would be to immediately resign, become a private investigator specializing in criminal activity within law enforcement, then start organizing training symposiums that educate citizens on the inner workings of the typical police department. Short of these first baby steps, no police officer should be trusted.
During World War 2, there were many good men in Hitlers Wehrmacht. These German men loved their nation, they loved their families, and many were good and kind men. But they still did the bidding of a tyrannical regime. Any Nazi soldier that was incapable of understanding the evil being carried out around him was, by their own actions, too ignorant to be of any value to anyone but a tyrant.
I think the old rule applies here; Ignore what a man says, only what he does. Thus, the probability that there are “good cops” is about the same as there being “good Nazis”.
I am sure Judge Elum would be frustrated with your efforts to use his case to attempt to provide you “street cred” on such a website. Also, you have given way too much information here if you were hoping for anonymity. Just a thought…
Perhaps if you were a competent police officer, you would know what the hell you are talking about. As it stands, you are begging for attention on a website of meaningless malcontents.
I would analyze your motives for posting here and do a risk vs reward study. Some people just aren’t worth your time and it is not wise to throw pearls to swine…
squeak squeak
If yo truly are who you claim to be then I certainly welcome your insights here. Ignore the trolls and ‘free market’ basement-dwelling jackasses; they have no life and exist to tear others down.
Ok. So maybe there is like one Frank Serpico for every quarter million corrupt Cops. We are all still doomed and being raked over the fucking coals by this corrupt system which employs a majority of BAD LITTLE PIGLETS! The System = FAIL!
P.S. The funniest thing about this Vyper guy is that he talks about other people making (stereotyping) all cops out to be the same. But personally I think his title for this post (Why I am different from the rest of the LEO’s) speaks for itself. He knows the truth deep down inside. It’s hard at first to realize and admit that almost everything you have been brainwashed all of your life to believe is an ugly LIE. Below please examine the 3 biggest lies in the world.
(1) The check is in the mail.
(2) I won’t come in your mouth.
(3) I am from the government, I am here to help you.
LMFAO!
@ VYPER:
If you really feel disgusted by the corruption prevailing in the police and your conscience tells you that by staying there and turning a blind eye to all the injustices committed by your cop buddies is against your “principles”, how come you have chosen to stay in a corrupt institution as the police? Why drives you to stay there? A paycheck?
What contributions have you particularly made to clean up the mess in that institution?
Cop is one of the few careers where you do not need high education to perform your duties. Just a gun, handcuffs, a nightstick, a Tazer, be prepotent and instil fear in people.
Carlos
“Street Cred”???… lol. Judge Elum has always been outspoken about holding EVERYONE accountable. Even the police. There were 2 parts to his case and he accepted responsibility for his part in both. Never used this case for street cred. I was asked for examples and I gave.
@ Glenn
Quitting only makes it worse. nobody can say that 100% of the cops in our nation are bad. they can argue that the uniform represents bad and thats the extent of the argument. as to training syposiums, I have educated the public in small numbers on specific inner workings of a Police Department in general. I cant teach anyone the inner workings of a specific department if I havent worked for that dept. topics have included, CPS at the door, DUI loopholes, Pursuit Policies, and use of force criteria. I highly regard a person right to free speech and while I resent personally being referenced as a comparison to Hitler’s Nazi’s, I accept that people are entitled to their opinions. please show me a video or case information where Police are throwing people into ovens or marching them to to their deaths. I can provide video’s of the Aryan Nation killing people because of the color of their skin. The Aryan’s are not LEO’s or Governemnt Employee’s and kill more people than LEO’s do. I can go all day on the various other groups that do the very things that EVERYONE claims only th police do but theres no point. People will think that they want to think and be hypocritical by trying to educate the police WITHOUT being willing to be educated themselves.
@ Carlos
I am paid to uphold the laws and constitution. If an officer in California violates your rights that’s HIS mistake and not mine. I am disgusted at the officers in the country that actively choose to do things that are in violation of the oath and constitution. I do my part by continually treating people with dignity and respect and by NOT violating their rights. You dont see many video’s of cops doing the right thing because most people that arm themselves with camera’s delete that footage because it hurts their cause. People as a whole always react in some form to the presence of a Police Officer. and those reactions are a mix of positive and negative. although I dont know the exact stats, I would venture that the good cops make up less than 1% of the Law Enforcement officers in the country and thats a shame and probably a high estimate. if all the good cops quit, I too would hide in my house and never want to venture out into open target area. Being a LEO involves alot of education and in fact most departments require a college degree. that’s what I find Ironic, all that time spent in school and the academy and training and still some choose to do the opposite of what they are taught.
“if all the good cops quit, I too would hide in my house and never want to venture out into open target area.” Do you really think 1% or less is going to hold back the other 99%+? I don’t. Welcome to the range, if your not a cop, your fucked (and if you dare to resist their illegal acts of aggression you end up dead or at least beaten and caged). They compose the reports which the judges take as evidence against us, falsified or not. To the judge our words are lies and those of the police are gospel.
Modern law enforcement is exactly, precisely like Nazi’s. I would advise Vyper to do a little research on the Nazi SA Sturmabteilung, or what were known as the “Brownshirts”.
The Brownshirts were created as a means to destroy any political opposition to Hitler’s Nazi party. Enemies included Communists, Catholics, Trade Unionists, and Jews.
The Brownshirts were violent and ignorant, knowing only enough to follow orders, and completely lacking in humanity or compassion for even their fellow Germans. The Brownshirts cared only for their own paycheck and the power they enjoyed. In this, they are virtually identical to police in America today.
In the final equation, American law enforcement is not “like” Nazi’s, they *are* Nazi’s.
VYPER: I have no argument with you, however, what I wish to know is: If police are to protect and serve the public, why are they armed like Germany’s Gestapo. Automatic weapons, Armored trucks, Arpio has a tank.
There are reports of police departments using drones to citizens. How About all the erroneous door breakdowns of innocent people by Gestapo like departments???
When the law is signed to incarcerate American citizens as they are suspected of terrorism by “O”, which side of the fence is LEA on? Will they take their oath seriously or will they come after the citizens with gusto? It appears to me by the actions of these departments that the answer would be the latter…
@ Frank
Automatic Weapons are often times Semi-auto’s that look like they are full auto. they are used for their stopping power and longer range ability. Tanks are unnecessary and I dont know why Arpio has one. probably a political statement of some kind. Erroneous door break downs do happen and its unfortunate. Police are acting on information and depending on the content, have to act on it before verifying it and then sometimes you hit the wrong house. The department is responsible for the damage and the impending heart attack of having your door kicked in by mistake. it sucks I know, but sometimes its necessary to act fast. I have heard Drones are being used to spot illegal’s attempting to cross the border and for the war on drugs. uses other than those are not known to me nor have I heard of them being deployed to “Spy” on people. I dont understand the last part of your message about laws and terrorism, If your asking if LEO’s will arrest someone for terrorism then yes. ” ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC” is the part of the oath that applies. I dont know about doing it with “Gusto” but If you are charged with Terrorism and a warrant is issued, the LEO thats tasked with serving that warrant has no idea if your guilty or innocent isnt being asked to Judge you but simply arrest.
Is that worthless shithead criminal Joe Arpaio still at it out there. I have been busy doing other things lately. But have spent much time working against criminal Joe of Maricopa County, Arizona. You guys should watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F1jH6-3UeY) video about good old shithead Joe.
Sheriff Joe is still out there and I heard he has a TANK in his arsenal. wonder if its pink too.
@VYPER: The last part of my question you didn’t understand is: Will LEO’s follow the Constitution of the United States and defend the American citizen against a runaway administration or will they blindly follow orders to round up whoever gets turned into Napolitano for being suspicious for owning a firearm, stocking up on food, water, ammo, paying with cash, missing fingers, etc??? These are the criteria put out on patriots now to define them as terrorists.
As far as the drones, it is documented that Houston, TX is using drones to spy on their citizens and a drone was used against a farmer in North Dakota during the summer of 2011.
Finally, I take issue with the statement that LEO’s will enforce the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, foreign or DOMESTIC as the biggest threat to this country sits in the White House and is killing this country, yet NOT ONE LEO raises a hand to arrest him or Holder for treason. This is why I doubt any LEO is on the side of the American People, but are more inclined to be his Jackboots.
In saying that, I do not infer that ALL police are Gestapo, but feel they will follow the orders given by their superiors and arrest whoever is being suspected.
@equalizer:
Yes Sheriff Joe is still out there and is doing the job he was elected to do.
If you cannot abide the fact that he takes his position seriously and does not let Obama’s thugs run over him, then that is your problem. For one I applaud the Pink Panties he has inmates wear and how he has cut expenses by utilizing Tent Cities. He has stated that if you didn’t like his hospitality, then don’t do the crime. I SAY KUDOS TO HIM FOR HIS ATTITUDE TOWARDS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY AND TELLING THE FEDS TO F**K OFF.
He should have Napolitano’s job as the head of Homeland Security.
I think he (Joe Arpaio) likes pink so much because he has twisted psycho homosexual fantasies. He likely cross dresses like J. Edgar Hoover used to do in his spare time.
Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dzsCUHbuKcM) video. It’s the greatest. Time for the PIG to get turned to bacon.
Ok, this is my first time on here. I think Vyper is on track as far as not lumping everyone together. Everyone is an individual and EWVERYONE (INCLUDING LEOs/Police) deserve to be evaluated as such. Now, does that mean that profiling (not RACIAL, but common sense- the dude wearing the ski mask and gang colors and running away from the liquor store while carrying a gun MIGHT have just commited a crime) is wrong? No, it means you should be more cautious when evaluating that person- just as you would a police officer, if that’s been your experience.
As far as some of the batshit crazy statements on here- WTF? Saying police are Nazis or brownshirts, that only property laws should exist, etc. I don’t get it. It just doesn’t make sense. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it’s expression- that doesn’t mean they’re right.
As far as some of the complaints about drones / UAVs: they are MUCH cheaper to operate than helicopters or manned fixed-wing aircraft. Why is that wrong? As far as spying: in Kyllo v. U.S. the Supreme Court of the United States said that a ssearch warrant must be obtained PRIOR to using Forward-Looking InfraRed to search a home regardless of distance (curtilage). As far as visual inspections or night-vision (enhanced visual inspection), your curtilage (or, area around your property in which you are entitled to reasonable privacy) only extends to ~400′ for helicopters and ~1000′-1500′ for airplanes (see Ryder v. Florida). Unmanned aircraft are a much cheaper, safer, and more effective way to patrol and respond to crimes (a human is still needed almost always); in fact, I’ll bet some of you would be the first to complain about a fatal police pursuit if you knew a ‘drone’ could’ve followed the suspect more safely AND you’d complain that the police weren’t doing their jobs if they terminated the pursuit in the name of safety.
@ WTF
I agree that everyone should be looked at objectively. I dont totally understand alot of whats expressed here about what would make a better society but my not understanding doesnt make their points invalid. I have seen the awesome advantages to drones/uav’s while in afghanistan. As far as their use here in the USA, I can think of a few ways that their use would be very beneficial and while I agree they are safer and cheaper, we are a nation under duress and every tool ever put into service for Law Enforcement has been abused and misused and while drones would be a huge benefit in certain area’s, its logical to assume they too would be used to illegally spy and infringe on civil libertys. We are a nation earlobe deep in corruption on so many levels and I think that drones will kill what’s left of the public trust. if any still exists. I fight on a daily basis for change from within and I end up taking 2 steps backwards for every 1 I take forward. I thought the Drones in afghanistan were an excellent tool. but I just cant get behind their being used here. the loop holes in the law over aerial law enforcement equipment/vehicles far exceed the methods of reasonable redress when those laws are violated.
Here goes (http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/12/28/42601.htm) more great news about the criminal known as Joe Arpaio.
VYPER: I see you did NOT answer my question concerning LEO’s following the constitution or just blindly following orders.
If you think that Jackboots is an incorrect term, I suggest you read the following articles.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/suspicious-activity-reports-from-u-s-malls-being-processed-by-police-state-fusion-centers.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/homeland-security-to-hold-secret-meeting-on-domestic-extremist-threats.html
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=37784
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=37759
http://weaselzippers.us/2011/12/29/unreal-obama-admin-launches-free-24-hour-hotline-to-help-illegal-immigrants-who-have-been-arrested/
So again I ask you: Is Law Enforcement going to protect the citizens of this country against this runaway administration or follow orders to arrest anyone that gets reported as suspicious???
You can answer or ignore. If you choose to ignore, I guess the answer is: You are no different than any other of the Hitler youth with badges.
@wtf: In reference to police quitting a pursuit. I lived in Denver Colorado for 20 years and in that time the rule was that if the pursuit became dangerous and there was a chance to hurt innocents, THE PURSUIT WAS TO BE TERMINATED. So far as someone whining about this, I do not recall one complaint against the police for using common sense.
As far as drones and mini helicopters. Houston for one has a helicopter and uses it for surveillance and as I told VYPER in N. Dakota, a drone was used against a farmer there. You are being illegally put under surveillance at the whim of the Police. This happens every day just as the TSA illegally ignores the 4th and 5th amendments. Drones and mini helicopters were designed for use in war against the enemy, NOT IN AMERICA AGAINST ITS POPULATION.
What questions I put forth to VYPER are valid questions for someone who says: “I ain’t like the other guys” What makes the difference is the boots on the ground and how they are put to use..
@ Frank
I apologize as I dont know how I missed your earlier posting. First off when you said ” What Questions I put forth to Vyper are valid questions” is accurate by itself even though your quote isnt what I said. semantics I know.
I havent read the articles you presented as yet but I will after I finish this posting. I am still somewhat unclear as to exactly what your asking but I thihk I may have the general idea of what your asking so I’ll try to answer. If I have missed the point of your question in my response then I am confident you’ll point it out and we can go from there. Keep in mind that I cant speak for ALL LEO’s. I am only speaking for myself and my actions.
First off to address defending against a runaway administration. IF your asking about if an order was handed down to serve Federal Arrest Warrants issued under the Homeland Security Act would I execute those warrants. No I wouldnt for several reasons 1. Homeland Security has there own Agents. 2. The existance of Homeland Security is in itself a breach of the law and constitution and therefore any actions they take are unlawful and my assisting them is a breach of my Oath. If your asking about taking action against the white house administration. I have asked why certain members havent been arrested for various crimes and even spoke with a US Attorney in regards to whether or not I have the power of authority to arrest the President if I could articulate a crime under the same rules and standards that we are held to. The response I got was that the President basically has immunity. Like certain diplomats that come here on official business get “Dimplomatic Immunity” and can only be detained long enough to verify such status and then Immediately released despite whatever crime they committed. I find it Ironic that I have the authority to arrest your neighbor for peeking into your windows but I cannot arrest our administration for blatantly committing federal offenses.
I completely agree that our biggest Domestic Threat is sitting in the White House but as I stated earlier, I dont have anymore authority than you do to arrest or take any Law Enforcement action against him. In short, I will defend against the enemies that my power and authority allow as a LEO. as a private citizen I am even more limited in my ability to the president accountable.
I do not support mass arrests of people under the “Guise” of being “Suspicious” to homeland security cronies. Saying that all cops are corrupt is parallel to saying that anyone wearing a Burkha or Turban is a Terrorist. and portraying your displeasure for Police or Government in general doesnt make you ” Suspicious” and deem you an enemy of the state.