San Diego checkpoint protester ticketed by police for no reason

Published On February 25, 2011 | By Georgia Sand | Articles

A San Diego activist, Steven Holman participated in a checkpoint protest in Escondido (north San Diego county) on February 11, 2011. Mr. Holman is part of a phone tree that notifies activists when a checkpoint is announced on the Natural Rights Coalition Facebook page. The page is managed by another activist, Matt Bologna and helps organize people for such protests. Usually, some members will drive around to anticipated checkpoint sites until they find it, then notify the others to congregate a few blocks ahead of the checkpoint with signs.

On this particular occasion, 12+ activists held signs saying “Checkpoint Ahead” or “Car Thieves Ahead” and other similar warnings.

All night, Steven watched as Officer S. Walters, #307 pulled people over for turning right just before the checkpoint, regardless of whether people had been influenced by the signs. Many people were arrested and had their cars impounded for reasons unrelated to DUIs. Steven was unable to talk to many of the people who were arrested, as they were taken away, but this is what he learned from the few passengers he was able to speak with. From what Mr. Holman witnessed, there were no DUI arrests at the checkpoint itself, and only one DUI arrest the entire night. Mr. Bologna was able to catch many of the encounters on video.

Later in the night, when the number of participants started to dwindle, Steven decided to wrap up the protest and make his way home. He went to the crosswalk and pressed the button. He chatted with a friend as he waited for the light to turn, and when he began to cross, the crosswalk sign was flashing a red hand. Although it is perfectly acceptable to cross the street when the hand is still flashing, out of an abundance of caution, Steven decided to wait. He pressed the button yet again and waited for the “walk” sign to appear. When it did, he made his way across the street.

At this time, Matt, who had been recording the events of the night stopped recording because he received a phone call. As soon as S. Walters #307 saw that Matt had stopped filming, he sped out of the parking lot where he was parked, and pulled up alongside Mr. Holman, nearly hitting him. S. Walters #307 declared that Mr. Holman was being detained, and cited him for jaywalking, despite the presence of 5 witnesses who would be able to testify that no such thing occurred.

Mr. Holman will be fighting the ticket. All the witnesses have agreed to testify. One witness was not a part of the activism, but happened to be sitting in the parking lot at the time.  Mr. Holman finds S. Walters #307’s actions shameful. “His actions were petty and did nothing but reinforce our position that this system of governance is broken, and moreover is fundamentally flawed. His actions could not be justified in any way and in fact could only be understood in the context of someone who was trying to stifle dissent.”

The video below was taken by Matt and begins immediately after Mr. Holman is detained.

For more statistics on the Escondido Police Department, go to

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About The Author

Georgia (George) Sand is an attorney located in sunny California. She enjoys beer, jogging, the beach, music, and chatting with her cats in her spare time.
  • Frank

    I would hope the abundance of witnesses not only leaves the court with no choice but to drop the citation but also is enough to support a complaint that the officer knowingly filed a false report.

  • Lawrence

    This incident shows how thin-skinned and dishonest these blowhards in blue are. Steven couldn’t have been acting more responsibly, but it never is about responsible behavior. It’s all about attitude, and the only attitude acceptable for power-mad, tax-subsidized, donut-eaters is abject subservience to authori-TAY. And since Steven and his crew already had shown alarming signs of thoughtfulness, independence of mind, and a failure to lick the boot and buttocks of the cops, they became targets for the Escondido moron patrol in blue. Shame, shame, on Escondido donut eaters.

  • Rogan

    As a citizen of Escondido this disgusts me.

  • Rogan

    I second Frank and Lawrence’s thoughts.

  • James Babb
  • Danny (A)

    It’s things like this that make me afraid to walk…or drive…or do anything really.

  • Jenn

    @Lawrence – well put!

  • Marty

    good job ridiculing govt bureaucrats!

  • Hazy

    Has it really come down to having a camera running 24/7 to be able to protect yourself?

  • Frank

    @Hazy… Yes. That is also why cops hate cameras.

  • Pingback: San Diego: “Has it really come down to having a camera running 24/7 to be able to protect yourself?” · Hammer of Truth()

  • Mike

    There wasn’t two cops because of a jay walking ticket. There were two cops because one was filling out the citation and the other was watching the idiots with the camera.

    DUI checkpoints are for other things also. They are legal. They check for driver licenses. Escondido has many unlicensed drivers. If they had licenses or were valid they wouldn’t get their cars towed.

  • Mike

    The guy getting the citation was very calm and didn’t say anything. I applaud him. The place to fight a citation is court. The guy behind the camera and his friend didn’t help the situation at all.

  • Jenn

    @Mike – what the cop did was illegal. You shouldn’t have to waste your time and energy fighting this bullshit in court. Fuck this cop. He’s a fucked up piece of shit. Maybe he likes wasting his time, jerking off all day, harassing peaceful protesters and writing false tickets. But just because his life is worth shit, doesn’t mean he should go around wasting other people’s time.

  • Mike


    Way to be adult about things. The cop cited the guy for an infraction. Let it go to court.

  • Guy Fawkes


    Yeah, let it go to court, where the cop gets paid to show up while the protester has to either take a vacation day or lose a days pay from work.

  • Lawrence

    @Mike: Because these costumed tax-suckers feel a false sense of privilege, they are wasting the time of good people like Steve. If you think it is such a benign problem to have to waste your time in court for a trumped up charge, perhaps the cop should be put to use in a kind of “community service” and thus become the temporary slave of Steve as a penalty for wasting his and the taxpayers’ money with these false charges. The general rule is at least double-damages. If so, I hope that cop has to put in time warning drivers against cop abuse and pay double-damages refund to the taxpayers for court time. Then, three strikes and you’re out, perhaps? Like lose the tax-slurping job!

  • Deoxy

    “Let it go to court.”

    Unless the COP also stands to lose something from issuing a false citation, just “letting it go to court”, where it should be thrown out at no penalty to the cop and some penalty to the citizen, is still unjust. It is an abuse of power. If there were no witnesses, it would also be, essentially, theft. And a person who will lie like that is likely to write false citations for much more serious things…

  • Jenn

    I tend not to have an adult attitude toward people who are unable to handle an adult attitude – e.g. this cop. It’s certainly not very adult to harass and wrongfully ticket someone just because you are annoyed at them. It is unprofessional and illegal. If he wants my respect or to be treated like an adult, he should start by acting like one. If he’s going to behave the way he did in this manner, I will continue to taunt him for being an immature idiot who spends most of his day wasting my money and being a fuckwad.

  • Jenn

    And I can tell you that the prosecutors don’t appreciate cops who lie, write false tickets, thus requiring prosecutors to show up at traffic/infraction court for stupid shit and then have a cop who goes, “well yeah…. i guess that ticket was bogus, whoops.” So regardless of whether it is appropriate to be “adult” in this situation or not, it is indisputable that the cop is not being an adult and is wasting everyone’s time.

  • Mike

    There are two sides to every story. Somewhere in between is the truth.

  • Lawrence

    @Mike: What a crock! No, the truth doesn’t lie “somewhere in between.” If you had taken a logic class in your silly wasted life, you would be familiar with concepts like the “law of the excluded middle.” The fact is, somebody lied to inconvenience Steve, and your muddy, muddled thinking, and your willingness to waste the time of innocent people all bespeak a nasty streak of butt-licking when it comes to those you “think” are in authori-TAY. No, the truth is not in the middle, and 2+2=4, not something in between 2 and 8. Next time you are driving down a street that branches into a “Y” with a thick concrete abutment in between the two roads, why not try out our own logic and take the middle way? After all, surely the true path is “somewhere in between.” LOL! That will end all of your thinking problems in a single instant — if you do us the favor of putting the petal to the metal.

  • Jenn

    Agree with Larry. Mike, are you suggesting that our eyes are lying to us? That not only is Steve lying, that 5 witnesses and the video are all lying, and we are missing something that would justify this asshole’s actions? Either it happened or it didn’t. Either he jaywalked, or he didn’t. You have zero grounds to defend this cop, yet you continue to do it, unwaveringly. Why is this?

  • Jim


    The video doesn’t show the guy crossing or not crossing the street and if the had was red or green. There are several sections the guy could have violated. I would like to know what section he was cited for. Was it a muni code, penal code or vehicle code?

  • Jenn

    @Jim – I think most people who get jaywalking citations get the vehicle code citation. I would have to double check with Steve about the exact section though. True, the video doesn’t show what color the hand is, but I think it’s good circumstantial evidence. This would be quite the elaborate scheme if 5 people had conspired to have their friend jaywalk then film a fake film attempting to frame the police as lying about a jaywalking ticket.

  • Dennis

    The police aren’t anything but bullies with badges who are part of the biggest gang of thugs in the world.

    I too have been the victim of police lies and twisting of the truth and had to pay good money to a lawyer to defend me on frivolous charges that were dropped 2 days before trial.

    I was out $2500.00 for my lawyer plus 4 days off work with no pay for pre-trial bullcrap and loss of my dignity and crystal clean record. Hell…I was even an ardent supporter of the cops prior to that and I would have been saying the same thing Mike is…but now that I have seen the truth….No way am I ever going back to that place.

    Keep up the good work everyone!


    Im pretty sure all of you cop haters complaining about tax dollars are broke idiots anyway. Your 8 dollar an hour salary is not getting taxed as your broke asses get your loser 800 bucks a year back as your tax return. So if you actually contributed anything to society rather then just smoking meth and playing with your shitty camera them maybe people would listen to you. You guys are nothing but modern day hippies. These laws were made for a reason by peopel that are much more intelligent then all of you morons. So take this website and your hippie ways and, smoke. shoot up or snort it the way you hippie fags know how. Keep doing what your doing and let the real men and women of society do the difficult jobs in this world.

  • Jenn

    @TheBlueLine – You are mistaken. Your government ass-licking self is guaranteed to be much more socialist/communist/”hippie” than any of us. You sound like a cop, which also pretty much guarantees that every single one of us is more productive and contributes more to society than you have your entire life. You only steal and destroy. Thanks for your insightful input, though.

  • Dennis

    Hey The blue line…..aka dickhead…..Not that I have to defend myself to a scumdick like you .. probably a pig who is corrupt … but I am well respected in my field and make more than the “police” that are paid to protect me.

    And btw, I have an IQ higher than you could ever hope to attain.

  • Lawrence

    @THEBLUELINE: You are not a taxpayer in any way shape or form. You are a net-tax recipient because you are a welfare-state employee; since all of your pay is from taxes, you cannot be productive by definition. Since every dollar you make was stolen from people who did not hire you and cannot fire you, you are no different than a thug whose “services” are not wanted and whose duties have no value because nobody willingly pays a salary to you. Only some schmuck politician forces pay into your lazy pockets that was taken from productive citizens. Everyone BUT you is a productive member of society. You cannot get a job in the real world, and you offer nothing of value.

  • Dan

    “I have an IQ higher than you could ever hope to attain.”

    Prove it?


    The real world? Im pretty sure my line of work takes place in “the real world” more so than most. It doesnt get any more real then what I do ladies and gentleman. You people seem to be angry…at what? and what are you going to do to resolve your issues? No matter how many hateful blogs you create and how many cops you follow around with video cameras…it is not going to change anything. I will admit there are “bad seeds” in any industry. That goes for cops as well. The criminals make up about 1 percent of society..and dont those few just give people as a whole a bad name? can we agree on that much? There are “bad” doctors, lawyers, teachers and whatever else take yor pick. @ JENN ive never heard communist/socialist and hippie used in the same context before. Do you know what a hippie is? or communists and socialists for that matter? Doesnt seem like it. Hippies are ani-governmant and anti-law such as you people. Where would our society be if we were a lawless society? The laws protect us and yes that means you too. The next time a gangbanger shoots up your neighborhood call a crackhead, see how far that gets you. what would be your solution? Im eager to hear this. Im sure some of you may have had a negative contact with a police officer,,,Jenn i think maybe you dated one and he did you happens…Its ok to have an eating disorder too, Jenn millions of Americans suffer from the same syndrome, I think you are beautiful inside and out. God loves everyone. That is if you believe in God, but that is another issue. So what is is going to be? Someone please say something with some meaning…pretty please…
    I will leave on this note…I have seen first hand police abuse their power..maybe taking things alittle more personal than they should.. I typically dont like those types of cops and believe me most cops don’t either. Its kind of like this… you meet ten hot chicks but one fat one…your friends remember the fat one and wont let you live it down…same idea. If your job was was in the public eye 24/7 would everything people say about you be complimenting in nature? NOPE!//

  • Jenn

    Errr…. not everyone who has a sense of social justice was driven there by a bad relationship or eating disorder…lol. Although your concern appears sarcastic, I’d still like to assure you that I haven’t been driven to the dark side by a bad relationship and I have no eating disorder.

    By communist/socialist/hippie, I mean anyone who wants central command of goods or services. This is essentially the definition of communist/socialist – government monopoly/control over a certain sector.In your case, you clearly support strong central command/control by government of law enforcement/police services. Somehow, you want to distinguish yourself from those “other” communists and socialists, but you essentially support the same concept. You think you are different because you are American or because you say you believe in freedom, but you’re the same. As long as you believe government should have a monopoly over law enforcement, you are supporting a form of socialism.

    Somehow, you think you are not a socialist merely because the things you want socialized are different.


    With that said Jenn, who would you have enforce the laws or control law enforcemen if not a “central government”? Are you American? Laws are enforced by federal, county, state and citiy entities,,would you truly trust this responsibility to a band of hippies?? then who?


    Ahhh So you admit you are on the “dark” .Sounds to me like you are just a policy and government hater..and that is fine. The federal government has never done anything great for me or anyone that I know for that matter.So you are in favor of a Republic then??.Control for the people by the people..The Romans tried that.,,it didnt work.. So you lobby against any government entity it seems or any American government entity I should say. What is your overall goal again?Are you American?

  • Lawrence

    @THEBLUELINE. Do you really think you provide anything that cannot be performed better and cheaper in the private sector on a competitive basis? Every government program is an exercise in waste, corruption, fraud, and failure. The simplest iPad has more complexity than anything that the work-free gov-co employees provide, and abuses are self-eliminating because customers can fire those who cannot produce. Maybe that’s why GovCo made the “freebooter” forces illegal after the War of 1812 — because they were 26 time more effective than GovCo employees. Every time government fails, it gets more money. In the real world (you don’t know it) such failed companies go out of business — unless they are Goldman Sachs and have a corrupt political structure to prop up their failure, which is all the government does and is. Do you really think cops-and-robbers is somehow too much for the private sector? LOL


    Interesting point Lawrence. So you want to take police depatrments and make them private businesses? Owned by cooporations? Wow should we give the corps even more power,,,wow that is a scary thought. So we should pay someone even less to do this job..yea im sure you will get quality officers who really give a shit using that idea. It would be to expensive and the liability is through the roof…Private business cant fund that nor would they want to,,and even say they could how would thet turn a buck…?? HAHA Citations and fines would be through the roof to keep these private companies afloat. People would still complain. People would still hate cops. Now you would be at the mercy of business politics with no government backing…good luck. So would you like cops more if they were employed by private business?? Would that J-walking ticket be that much more ok??? I dont know where you get your facts but they certainly are intersting. I am not a business man nor claim to be one but Im pretty sure the responsibility of protecting the people is not an interest of Apple or Microsoft. Hey lawrence if you can make it work Im with ya..because you will be paying me much more…..Cha Ching!


    Hey coffee house squatters!! you getting that free WIFI on>???? hahahaha

  • Lawrence

    @THEBLUELINE. You are a study in psychological projection and inability to read. You may pad the costs, but businesses are limited in that way because they must compete — but you wouldn’t know that since you’ve never competed for squat. I have no fear of corporations or the free market because I can fire any business that doesn’t please me, so please don’t think you can scare me by waving your “corporate power” garlic. I am not a superstitious vampire — but you may be! People won’t hate cops whose salaries they pay voluntarily. Fortunately, we won’t have cops creating more crime by “criminalizing” and confiscating people’s property for peacefully engaging in drug use. My grandmother was killed because of your drug war — which creates criminals by upping the profit margin. You police have created chaos, and then you point to it as if it shows we need you (actually you have created the crime; ask anyone who lives in an urban war zone that was created by the drug war and the welfare state). No, the only corporation I fear is the biggest and on “real” monopoly of them all — the government. Think before posting next time. You are embarrassing yourself.


    Dont talk to me about “urban war zones” a Brooklyn New York native and the Urban centers I have worked Im pretty sure Im over qualified in that department. You would not be able to fire anyone..unless you plan on owning one of these companies. “Peaceful drug users”? Do you have any idea the types of Criminal organizations you support when you buy illegal drugs? Al Queda for one, Used the US drug market to support its networks. Not to mention the criminals that are committing the violent crimes, home invasions, and robbing kids on the way to school are drug users trying to fund their next fix..are you kidding me? You are so detached from reality, but that is a common thing in society today…ignorance. If its not on a reality show or a game on xbox people likeyou have no idea. So continue with your protests and your rhetoric that is your legal right to do so. I just hope one day I run into you out there…good luck…fool.


    oh yea and fyi…for every police officer on the street, thousands of people applied for that position and were not considered. Competition? I think so.

  • Lawrence

    @THEBLUELINE: You seem to be unaware that you “fire” a company when you don’t buy its products. You don’t have to own them. Am I speaking to an 8-year-old? I was raised in Detroit, so don’t try to macho me to death. What a bone headed argument. It’s also funny you should mention Al-Quaida. The CIA literally created them to fight the Russians (thanks Gov-Co — yet another Big Government program that keeps on giving!). In case you were born yesterday or have heard only propaganda, beginning in 1979 and for 10 years afterward, the U.S.S.R. waged war in Afghanistan. Like a junkie addicted to crack, the U.S. government could not resist the urge to become involved. Consequently, the CIA trained Afghans to fight the Soviets – working in tandem with Osama bin Laden. When the war ended, he turned his wrath on the other bully in the region – the United States.
    Osama bin Laden conducted the 2001 attack for three reasons: (1) the death of 500,000+ Iraqi babies due to U.S.-backed sanctions (U.S. secretary of state said it was “worth it” on the show, “60 Minutes,” (2) U.S. support for the apartheid state of Israel against native Palestinians, and (3) the presence of U.S. military forces in Islamic holy places. He did not, however, focus his attack on the presidents and members of Congress who were responsible for interfering in the Middle East. Instead, he acted just like the U.S. government. He attacked innocent civilians. Perhaps he thought that Americans should not have elected rulers who were so violent toward people in faraway places. But Osama also attacked people who did not participate in the democratic process of voting for dictators and war mongers.
    Osama bin Laden’s motive was not religious. As Professor Robert Pape explained in Dying to Win, 95% of suicide bombings are a political response to foreign occupation.
    The government cannot protect you and will not change.
    If the U.S. government did not have 700 bases in 120 countries, 3,000 Americans would still be alive, and we would be much wealthier and infinitely safer. Apparently, those who call themselves “the government” believe that the 3,000 deaths on 9/11 were “worth it” because they continue to misbehave as before. More Americans need to become aware that government officials are cynically using the image of the 9/11 victims to divert blame from themselves and their cruel foreign policy. Even worse, they have used these victims as an excuse to kill people in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Pakistan. They also are lying about Iran’s nuclear capability – just as they lied about Saddam and the “mushroom cloud.” They have trampled our freedoms, spied on us, bankrupted the country with socialist military adventures, played on our fears, and continue to provoke anger worldwide. They have hijacked the meaning of 9/11, and they have been helped by the media whose licenses they control.
    So please don’t try to scare me with your claptrap about drugs. People like you are far worse for starting problems and then not manning up enough to own them. People like you and your drug wars kill innocent people like my grandmother. You should be ashamed. So please cure your own ignorance first. Those of us on this site did not fall off a turnip truck.

  • Lawrence

    Dear CopBlock readers: Here’s a link to an article I wrote several years ago about how the drug war led to my grandmother’s senseless beating and death. She was in her 70s, but you know these cops and DEA types couldn’t care less. This is the kind of stuff that THEBLUELINE causes and is proud of. It’s why decent people should never serve these DEA, FBI, and cops in restaurants. And it’s a story that happens daily in this country.

  • Jenn

    @BlueLine – clearly your solution to the problem will not be the same as mine. In fact, you apparently don’t even think it is a problem that police abuse their powers and get away with crimes because they are expected to police themselves. That aside, why do you keep asking me if I am American?

    What does it mean to you, to be American? Are you asking if I am a citizen? If I was born here? If I identify with American cultural values? If I love Obama? If I celebrate July 4? What does that have to do with anything?

    I was born in Ohio and I believe in freedom. Whether that makes me American I suppose is a matter of your opinion. But it is likely still irrelevant to the conversation.

  • Lawrence

    @Jenn: Thanks for bringing this back to the point at issue. I wonder why he has such an insulting attitude problem when people try to police the police? Heck, to quote his pals in Gov-Co: “If you’re not doing anything wrong, why are you so worried about it?”

  • Jenn

    @Blue line – you are also misunderstanding the concept of “competition.” Competition is necessary on all levels. Once a police officer gets the job, and he fucks up or kills someone, he often doesn’t get fired. Customer service is shoddy because you can’t personally fire police, or pick the most competent police agency to go with. You can’t withdraw your funds and go to another police agency if they don’t serve you well. You can’t change services. You are stuck. You are forced to pay. Decreased competition, or complete lack thereof, in this regard makes police answerable essentially only to themselves.

  • Jenn

    @Lawrence – couldn’t agree more.


    Thanks for the history lesson LAWRENCE, but yet again you are missing “MY” point. I served in the US special forces for 12 years before putting on my badge so I am aware of government propaganda and cover ups believe me. I am not here to defend the United States Government by any means. I believe nothing my government tells me. I agree with you on many levels. That being said, I am merely here to defend those police officers that do care about the citizens they protect and the ones that are free from gaff and corruption. I have never taken a penny that was not mine nor have I treated anyone unfairly that didnt have it comming. This idea of being able to hire and fire your police department just would not work. Every person that was legimately arrested or given a citation would boycott said police department.It would be an unstable joke. People would want cops to just do what pleases them,,it doesnt work that way..sorry..Everyones perception of what Law Enforcement should be is different. You think its ok for peopel to use “peaceful” drugs. Someone else might disagree with traffic laws..someone else may think it ok to go around destroying other peoples property. The human race just can’s be trusted with that kind of responsibility and to say so is down right, silly.@ JENN true to a point regarding your competition explaination..and thank you for that. :) Cops get fired all the time for misconduct and negligence. Police departments will not take the heat and risk a community outcry. Mostly cops get fired or reassigned depending on the situation.The people have more control then they know. One complaint from a citizen goes a long way trust me. Thats why you have cops out there walking on egg shells and have to second guess every situation for the possibility of someone being unhappy with the outcome. If a guy kills three babies does he deserve to be treated with respect and dignity? Our laws say yes…but cant blame a cop for getting a little emotional when dealing with people like that. Thay are scum.and dont deseve a second thought. People like to point the finger and complain until something happens to them or someone they love. You guys will never be satisfied that is the bottom line..,,

  • Jenn

    @Blue Line – I don’t know what you mean by getting fired “all the time” but they get away with shit ALL THE TIME. They cover for each other. And they get fired when they SHOULD have gone to jail. And even when they do get fired, they get hired in the next department over.

    How about this guy who tortured suspects for decades?

    How about this detective, who tried to tell the truth about corrupt police, and essentially had the book thrown at him, because everyone else wanted to cover things up?

    And the fact that in one rare instance a cop actually told the truth, the police chief told all the other cops “not to ostracize him” is very telling – that means that usually, when police tell the truth and expose the crimes of other cops, they USUALLY ostracize the whistleblower.

    How about this guy who molested multiple women, while victims were ignored by the police department who continued to cover it up until they no longer were able to?

    And how about another officer, who essentially saw his partner murder someone, and when he reported it, was ostracized and harassed by the police community?

    And when they do get fired, it’s easy to get a job in the next department over –

    These are all recent incidents. The picture is very clear. Police are encouraged to cover up for each other. When a rare police officer refuses to do so, he is ostracized and harassed. Do you really find this acceptable in a profession that is supposed to SOLVE and PREVENT crime?


    JENN, I am very fimiliar with all these stories you have posted. That is six incidents for how many cops are there in the united states? So you are angry that police officers have a sense of brotherhood? Not like in your world where selling out your friends get you bonus points. What are you like 24 maybe 25 years old. What do you know about any of this? You have spent your life with your nose in a book and now you think you will tell me how to do my job while you are shaking your ass at a San Diego night club? This is a classic case of “monday night quarterbacking” Hindsight is always 20/20. Easy to rip apart an officer for what he did in a situation. Im not talking about these extreme cases. Id like you to come on a ride-along. You need to see how situations unfold in real time. Maybe then you would appreciate the second to second descisions cops are faced with. Do you think you can do better? I have no idea what agency would hire an officer once he was fired for mis conduct. That to me is a mystery but Im sure it has happened a time or two and yes I hear of officers getting fired everyday for less.Once your credability is gone the department cant have you and that is a hard fact. You cab throw your hippie glitter on any situation as you please but until you have walked THEBLUELINE you can never tuly begin to understand. Hey let me know when you are available..I get VIP at club Fluxx downtown. maybe you can dance better then you can make a point,,,Ciao

  • Jenn

    @Blue line – so your position then, is that police are better human beings than everyone else? That because they have a hard job, they get to get away with murder and abuse? Why? Aren’t doctors important? They save lives. Why don’t doctors get to kill people and get away with it?You clearly know nothing about the legal system, which is particularly shameful if you are a police officer. The system consistently sides with police. It protects them from prosecution. It protects them from civil suit. It consistently refuses to hold them accountable. Even if I were to concede that police perform an important function and have a difficult job, why are they NOT HELD TO THE SAME LEGAL STANDARDS as everyone else?

    I don’t have to walk jackshit to know that holding a certain group of people as above the law, and giving them extra legal rights, and shielding them from personal responsibility is WRONG no matter who they are. I don’t have to be a Nazi to know Nazis are bad. I don’t have to be punched in the face to know it will hurt. Similarly, I don’t have to be a police officer to know that they should be held to the same standards as every other American.

    Even if I were to concede that they protect people, why are they more important than doctors? Why can doctors can be sued for negligence, and why don’t doctors have civil immunity from suit? Your belief that police are better human beings than everyone else, and deserve to be treated like gods or overlords manifests a great deal of naivete, if not plan foolishness on your part.

    Now – it’s my turn to ask you whether you are an American. Do you consider yourself an American? What it means to be American is a matter of opinion, but in my opinion, believing in a caste system and an aristocracy is un-American. This is exactly what you support. You see cops committing crimes, and you think they should be legally allowed to not only escape criminal prosecution, but avoid civil liability. This is the most un-American thing I have ever heard of – it mirrors feudal societies and monarchies where certain classes of people get to do all kinds of shit, while the peons and little guys don’t.

  • Jenn

    @The blue line – and you are lying when you say it’s 6 cops out of all the cops in the United States. It’s not 6 cops; it involves the hundreds of other cops that lied for them, that covered up for them, that fabricated evidence, that helped their partners commit crimes, or ostracized a whistleblower for being a rat.


    Well then you should know better than most that cops do get prosecuted. In todays society its “fun” to watch a cop get thrown on his ass..deserving or not. Cant you see that I am for the prosecution of police IF a crime has been committed?? Its perception my dear. What is your definition of murder? It sounds like you are deviating from the California Penal Codes definition. Seems to me you would have cops not even carry guns. Yes you do need to wear someone elses shoes to understand where they stand. It is a simple concept. Something as simple as getting punched in the face or knowing that Nazis were “bad” is a lame example. You have no idea what I support or what values I have and to assume you do is arrogant, What the hell is this civil immunity you speak of? I dont know where you work but in my world civil lawsuits are a barrel a dozen. How many doctors have malpractice suits and are still working. Same thing right? Why arent you blogging about them? Ill tell you why…because it is just plain boring,,,you arent going to get the same attention and nobody is going to read your shit. You attention whore. I dont claim to be better than anyone else except you actually. I go to sleep every night content and knowing just where I stand. Do you?


    Im done. Good luck with this website. Im not giving it or you anymore of my time. If was fun. Had many laughs. See ya around.

  • Lawrence

    @THEBLUELINE: You continue the ad hominem attacks, which you were requested to cease since they don’t rise to the level of human debate. Stop crawling in the muck by attacking Jenn’s character — which is completely irrelevant and unknown to you. Second, you intentionally confuse “malum in se” with “malum prohibitum” when you post such nonsense as the following:

    “This idea of being able to hire and fire your police department just would not work. Every person that was legimately arrested or given a citation would boycott said police department.It would be an unstable joke. People would want cops to just do what pleases them,,it doesnt work that way..sorry..”

    Cops love to pretend that we’re opening the floodgates of chaos by putting an end to the artificially created non-laws that victimize people for engaging in “crimes of consent,” which are not crimes at all but merely a way to expand the number of laws and thus expand the police force, the power of the state, and the “profiteering” aspect of “law enforcement” (sic). We all know that the crimes of murder, theft, and fraud are nearly universally accepted. But police like you want to focus on the nonsense laws that don’t matter, and you want us to confuse them with genuine crimes (malum in se). Your tricks are obvious, and you shout stop trying to pimp them out here. We know that you and people like you thrive on the bogus malum prohibitum (crimes determined by political decision-making). In Soviet-era Russia, it was a crime to make an honest living as a merchant. You and your drug laws and other trumped up and tarted up laws are the same.

  • Jenn

    @Larry – wow everything you and I have said really has just totally gone over this guy’s head. I’m not sure that he understood anything at all…

    @Blue line – My point about the doctors is that they have to pay for insurance. They get sued when they screw up. They personally are answerable in court when they screw up. Their insurance premiums go up. Police are not held to the same standards. It’s called civil immunity. Many times when police fuck up, especially if it is during the course of their employment, they do not get sued – the city does, and the TAXPAYERS pay. I’ve mentioned immunity and lack of legal accountability about 10 times now. Good god, are you completely illiterate? It’s like a person has to say something 10x and then you only have partial understanding of the original point.

    You want me to blog about doctors? Why don’t you go find me some articles about how doctors shot patients’ cats or dogs, or beat up a patient, or came after the patient with a scalpel because the patient took an “aggressive stance” or the patient “verbally challenged” them, and were not subsequently prosecuted, maybe lost their jobs but quickly found new employment, paid no civil damages, while all their doctor friends covered up evidence for them. Go find me some examples of doctors doing that and I’ll start blogging about it.


    I am very skilled at skimming through the bullshit and replying to only what is legitamate. Cops are not independant employees and are covered by the umbrella or agency that hired them. Not my fault. It was that way long before me. Im not going to find you any articles that state those things you suggested. Doctors are very much protected. Have you ever tried to file a suit against a doctor? Good luck. Again, its just doesnt make for an exciting story does it? Go tell the City Attorney that cops have civil immunity and no legal accountability. They would laugh you out of the office. If that was the case I think I might as well go start my own crime wave. So essentially you are bothered by the fact that when you sue a cop it comes out of the cities budget/? Well why shouldnt it? The fucking cop is working for the city you twit and acting under city, state or county authority.

    Lawrence, you are good at quoting facts from history and putting your spin on it. good job. If this was an assignment Id give you a B- for effort. You can quote this crap all day long if it makes you feel good and if we were involved in some kind of History debate I would consider you prepared. your trying to out class the converstaion and ignore what is really at hand here. You are a writer by profession…GREAT! Keep on writing and leave the hard stuff to me buddy boy and maybe JENN will let you get a piece,,,wait,,,I doubt that…hahaha you guys crack me up…

  • Lawrence

    @Jenn: You’re right. These cops demonstrate with every action and word that they do not want to “own” their behavior. They are irresponsible juvenile delinquents with costumes on that fool many rubes into thinking they have genuine legitimacy. They bait and switch in their “arguments,” and when all else fails, they sink to their own level and dip into the gutter with their concepts (sic) and language. Can you imagine having to work around people like that? Now wonder they have so little respect. They simply don’t deserve it — not even to the level of a creature, which at least doesn’t try to lie its way out of being responsible. They really are less responsible than some of the poor ghetto kids I once taught. They at least did not lie in a reflexive way like this guy or try to divert attention from their culpability by throwing flak into the air. They’re so used to conversing with their bargain-basement peers (both in and outside of the workplace; after all, I imagine that only the worst sort will have anything to do with them), that they can’t face up to genuine human beings.

  • Lawrence

    PS: Jenn, if Wes were here, he’d say that they are intentionally or unconsciously (I don’t know which) evading what we’re saying because it is psychologically too threatening to have to face up to what the meaning of our words brings to bear on what they are. When you hold up a mirror, they attack the mirror or won’t look in it. I smell fear at the most primal level. They know that they are non-being.

  • training day

    You are a peasant. You are weak. The power you hold lies only in your writing. You have no spine. You could not spring into action if your life depended on it. You are a me in a dark alley we will see who smells fear. Keep running your mouth you will never change a thing. It is my world. I am the enforcer.

  • Jenn

    @Training – I am perfectly aware of my peon status. You are the reason I fear police. Of course I would be fearful if I met you in a dark alley. What’s your point? I’m pretty sure I’d be safer in a dark alley if I met bums and gang members than if I ran into you. I’m glad you’re so honest about what police really are. They are not public servants or protectors. You are assholes we should fear in a dark alley. You treat us like peasants. We are, in effect, your servants, not the other way around. Well, for all your bullshit, at least you are honest.

  • training day

    Oh wow. You are really amazing. Where do you work.?does your employer know your hugely biased opinion. I hope you are not a lawyer. These ideas could ruin you.

  • Lawrence

    @training day. Yet another mouth-breather. When did being one of those become a requirement for cops? Or as my old friend Tim used to say: “Know what’s wrong with cops? They wanted to be cops.

  • Jenn

    @Training – what bias? You just said it yourself. I should fear you in a dark alley. Does your employer know that you threaten violence to people who speak their mind? I think it’s absolutely hysterical that you think my opinions would ruin me if I am a lawyer, but you see no problem with the fact that you are law enforcement, and threaten to use violence on people you disagree with. I’m pretty sure most people have more of a problem with police who want to beat innocent people in dark alleys than lawyers with contrarian opinions.

  • training day

    Lady please have post after post ripping up cops and government agencies ..I hope you are going to have your own law firm or maybe you will just represent the people v.cops. I’m no lawyer but pretty sure this little side gig you have could be a conflict of interest what happened to fair and impartial? Innocent until proven guilty? You do understand these concepts??.you and that other worm are pathetic. I’m glad you represent nothing…you can’t even be considered the minority opinion…you aren’t even on the map yet babe …

  • Dennis

    Yup. Training……the trifling troll. He or she and gluelike are both wanna be cops. They have no clue what it is they are arguing. Probably because thy have their heads up either their own asses or that of a clown in uniform

  • Rob

    Training day are you insane or just bored because it’s a Sunday and you have nothing better to do then threaten people?

    And really? “You are a me in a dark alley we will see who smells fear. Keep running your mouth you will never change a thing. It is my world. I am the enforcer.”? (Real tough guy there)

    You also say innocent until proven guilty but if you don’t have enough money for bail you will sit in that cage resulting in: guilty until proven innocent.

    Nothing you say makes sense. Seriously my dog makes more sense than you do, she will ring one of three bells if she’s hungry, has to go out or wants to play and you just talk gibberish pretending to be a tough guy behind your keyboard trying to have people fear you. I have to ask, do you work your local haunted house trying to scare kids every Halloween? You probably need some serious mental health issues resolved. I would be happy to recommend someone for you if your in my area.

    Nerveless I’m sure you had a point in there somewhere but I just couldn’t grasp it.

  • Jenn

    @Training – you really are slow. Where did you learn that lawyers are supposed to be fair and impartial? They are not. They are supposed to be very biased – on the side of their clients. They are advocates, not judges. That’s the point of lawyers. Yes, there might be conflict of interest if I was some kind of lawyer who represented cops or judges or something, but really, do I look like or sound like a prosecutor or police defense attorney to you? Further, in 95% of the areas of law, what you are saying just doesn’t apply. Working in business litigation, family law, employment law, corporate law, personal injury, etc. would not pose any conflict with police. Does this really have to be explained to you?

  • Jenn

    @Training – Finally, the whole accusation of “bias” coming from you is just ridiculous. Maybe I am biased – toward truth. And you are biased towards lies. So what? Every article I have written is backed up by news, law, and analysis. All you can throw out are sexist or racist insults about how I should be shaking my ass in a club or I am not a real American, or am an attention whore, etc. Then you throw in some crap about how cool you are to have VIP status at douchey clubs downtown and how you are going to possibly rape/kill me in an alley. You have not once sufficiently defended any position you set forth with facts. And you are calling me biased. Seriously, as Rob suggested, you may want to be evaluated for mental illness.

  • big man in a little coat

    “You have no spine. You could not spring into action if your life depended on it. You are a me in a dark alley we will see who smells fear.”

    Yeah, you’re a big man with what, 4, 5 different weapons on your belt? And a radio to call your buddies at the first sign of trouble?

    Oh yeah, you’re a big man, as long as all of your buddies are there to back you up. But let’s face it, you wouldn’t go near a dark alley without the SWAT team. You’re scared shitless of these “sheep”. How many times have I rolled past a single car pulled off the road with 10+ cop cars behind it? You guys can’t even hand out a speeding ticket to a soccer mom without backup.

    You’re the bully we all hated in highschool….the kid who was so intimidated by his mental handicaps that he tries to hide it behind loud words and threats of violence. And guess what? The only people who will have anything to do with you in a social setting are your fellow cops, because they 1) have no choice, and 2) are bullies too.

  • Matt S.

    I used to monitor cops at checkpoints in Silicon Valley towns like Campbell,CA back in the early ’90s. Checkpoints used to be prohibited under the US Constitution until the big push to fight drunken driving in the late ’80s. So an exception was carved out to address a specific matter considered to be so important as to trump the right to be free from unreasonable search. Next thing we saw was an expansion of the concept to enforce the new seat belt law. Imagine that! Now seat belt enforcement was so important that it could be the reason to have checkpoints. Kalifornia is one of the worst states in the USA for individual freedom and the cops there are beyond authoritarian. I moved out of the state in 1994 and never looked back.

  • Aaron

    Well, I can definitely say that I enjoyed reading through the comments for this posting.

    I just want to address a few of THEBLUELINE’s remarks that I didn’t see Larry or Jenn address:

    “Peaceful drug users”? Do you have any idea the types of Criminal organizations you support when you buy illegal drugs? Al Queda for one, Used the US drug market to support its networks. Not to mention the criminals that are committing the violent crimes, home invasions, and robbing kids on the way to school are drug users trying to fund their next fix..are you kidding me? You are so detached from reality, but that is a common thing in society today…ignorance.

    That point is entirely backwards. If the drugs weren’t illegal then legitimate businesses could produce them — people wouldn’t have to pay Al Queda or Columbian drug lords. It is a SOLUTION to that problem.

    This idea of being able to hire and fire your police department just would not work. Every person that was legimately arrested or given a citation would boycott said police department.It would be an unstable joke.

    If that happens, that means the system is working exactly as it should. People would complain if cops gave stupid citations for jaywalking, and eventually one of the “policing companies” would smarten up and say, “Hey, if we don’t issue stupid citations, they won’t fire us.” This is what should happen — clearly if enough people have complained about being issued jaywalking citations, there is a problem with the fact that it’s illegal.

    If a guy kills three babies does he deserve to be treated with respect and dignity? Our laws say yes…but cant blame a cop for getting a little emotional when dealing with people like that. Thay are scum.and dont deseve a second thought.

    That is absolutely the crux of it. You think that police should have the right to issue summary judgement of these people before they’ve ever had a trial. No, that is not how it’s supposed to work. It’s not YOUR job to DECIDE that these people are scum, or whether they deserve a second thought. Your job as a cop is ONLY to apprehend criminals (and in my opinion, only violent ones), and in the process you should be treating them as if they’re a dinner guest.

    I DO blame cops for getting emotional. You are not supposed to be the judge, jury, or executioner. If you can’t handle doing your job without getting emotional, find a new fucking job. You said it yourself — there’s a ton of people waiting to take your job. It’s not acceptable to treat people like they’re criminals before they’ve been convicted by a jury of their peers.

    With that said, I’m sure nobody will ever read this post.. but things seemed significant enough to be worth addressing.