As Jeff Gray greeted his son exiting the school bus, he could tell something was up. Soon after, Jeff received a call from Colleen Hagan, who invited herself to his house. It was then that Jeff was told he was under investigation, due to a call made to the hotline for Florida’s Department of Children and Families (DCF). The caller – whose identity was kept secret by Colleen – accused Jeff of owning and shooting guns.
Despite being thrown into such an undesirable situation, Jeff, who’s no stranger to making transparent the actions of those who claim to serve and protect*, recorded the interaction.
Colleen told Jeff that before she called him, she’d not only visited his son Marcus in middle school, but also went to the nearby elementary school, where she spoke with his two younger children, Melissa and Michael.
Her actions, she justified, were due to a “report generated” by the DCF hotline – a 24/7 that Colleen herself noted was “constantly taking phone calls” about “any concerns.”
Colleen Hagan
Though Colleen attempted to lessen Jeff’s rightful dismay at the situation by differentiating between “good calls” and a “false report”, the full text of that hotline generated report as taken by her colleague, was merely:
Dad has a lot of guns in the house. Dad shoots the guns out back. He has a lot of guns. Police come to the house to see dad and protect Marcus, Melissa, and Michael.
Less than three dozen words were supposedly sufficient to reach the standard of a “good call” and thus grounds for Colleen to act as she did.
Also, Colleen failed to follow up with the local police to see if, in fact, they had ever responded to Jeff’s house due to any firearm-related issue. It seems like that would be a course of action to take prior to talking with Jeff’s kids and showing up at his residence. But then again, Colleen works for a coercion-based monopoly and doesn’t have to satisfy customers so why bother, right?
According to the DFS website:
Any allegations a child was abused or neglected by a caregiver will be investigated . . . When parents can’t, don’t or won’t protect their children, the Department of Children & Families steps in to help.
The report cited by Colleen mentioned nothing about abuse or neglect – it only referenced firearms.
Is owning guns a crime? Is it grounds for some unknown bureaucrat to disrupt your children’s lives and perceive you guilty until proven innocent?
Also, Colleen communicated to Jeff that he’d never be told of the callers’ identity – doesn’t he have the right to face his accuser?
As Jeff noted:
I believe this is a malicious attempt by somebody to harass me because this – baseless allegations that I do not shoot my guns in this neighborhood. I am very safe with my children with the guns. Like I said, they’ve been through the Eddie Eagle course, they know about firearms, and firearms safety. . . And I don’t do anything to endanger my children. And now I’ve got DCF in my house. . . Just because you guys got a 1-800-hotline that somebody can call, and its anonymous, and they can just say whatever they want to.
What are the ramifications to this inquisition by Colleen, who, though she may claim and actually believe she’s doing noble work, is so perversely incentivized that families like the Gray’s, and according to DCF figures, 15,000-20,000 other families, are investigated each month? Might it be likely that good families aren’t just investigated by their local government agent but in some cases, ripped apart?
Especially when considering that Colleen and her colleagues act with even less accountability and oversight than those folks wearing badges (though, the file-a-form-so-we-can-investigate-ourselves mantra sounds similar).
Do you desire that actors operating in a claimed monopoly (ie government) provide you with food? Safety? The same inherent faults that would apply to those goods and services apply too to the area of protecting kids.
Yes, it’s desirable that kids not be neglected, but the incentives inherent in the DCF model – a monopolistic structure based on violence – only points to metrics like calls taken and investigated, which fuels mission creep and the harassment of good people, such as Jeff Gray and his family.
Despite unfounded contact, Jeff later communicated to me that
Under the circumstances I couldn’t have asked for a more fair and understanding person than Colleen Hagan.
Have some thoughts about how this unfolded? Feel free to call Colleen or her supervisor Natolya Ivory:
- Natolya Ivory – (904) 797-8100
- Colleen Hagan – (904) 955.7670
*Gray creates some of the most on-point content of anyone I’ve been fortunate to meet through Cop Block. Check out his channel YouTube.com/HonorYourOath and coverage of his actions here on CopBlock.org.
Never invite any tax feeder into your home, or even onto the property. In a lot of states, this is an open invitation to a search. Anything they see while “casually” looking around can and will be used against you. I had one come by and ask to see my youngest girl’s room, and I asked “don’t you think that would be an invasion of her privacy?” They relented and never got past the fence. Not that they would have to begin with.
The fruits of feminism come home to roost. Entire legions of Marxist flag-waving man-haters in positions of power. Awesome!
Never talk to any of these assholes. You will help them, which is probably not what you want. You can only hurt yourself and your family.
I have spent many, many years trying to train my children to never answer questions from the so called authorities. It’s a major uphill battle. Kids just don’t see the harm until it’s too late.
I repeat – you can never help yourself by talking to these people. You are only helping them, to interfere, investigate, and prosecute.
An allegation was received, and handled within a day “without indicators” – seems they did their job.
Although the article does not cover what the state agent did to verify the nature of the rat’s (yes, that is what they are called) tip, it seems to me the first duty of the agent was to investigate the source of the tip first (if possible). The purpose of child protective services is to protect children from severe parental (or guardian) abuse or neglect. In that regard, some children need help. The “tip” did not indicate that there was any abuse or neglect. So how does that qualify for investigation? This is as bad as doctors asking if you have guns in the house – as if that was some kind of medical issue. Another question that will never be answered by me. The thought being, “None of your god damned business.”
Here we go again, with ‘Common sense” spouting his pro-statist crap. The problem is, this guy is now on the radar and in the system, along with his children; a place most of us want to avoid.
An @thinker, caught not thinking. Did you read the story. Had he decided to to talk, have common conversation, the results could have been far different. That tactic is bad advice every time it’s given.
Pete? So, should anonymous complaints about the police be ignored?
@T
DCF has only one goal, the same as any other government agency. Power. Power over your family. They don’t bother to investigate the ‘tipster’ to make sure they aren’t being used in a neighborhood war.
As you say about police complaints, it is so easy to make accusations. The difference is DCF is entirely too eager to rush in and take charge. And once the government gets their hands on your kids, they don’t ever let go.
And what is it to DCF is a guy shoots in his back yard? Isn’t that really just a police issue of illegally firing a weapon? And that is assuming it is illegal where he is at. It’s not like he is being accused of shooting apples off his kids’ heads.
DCF makes Canton OH cops look good. DCF can’t wait to step in and threaten your family. Don’t think for a second they are on your side even as an officer.
Well first, the guy even admits to having “the guns”. Not that that is in anyway illegal or even nessicarliy dangerous. But the “tipster” was dead on balls accurate.
(Btw how do you “investigate” an anonymous tipster?”
Now with what the tip was, the the police show up and protect the kids (wonder if that wasn’t supposed to be “please” show and protect the kids) I would think she would follow up with the police to find out if they get called there or not.
But as for “the guns”. If you haven’t figured it out yet, here are lots of people who are t safe with their guns. I was out of town staying with some friends and there was a dude who shot his neighbors teenage (dead in the chest killing him) while show off his gun. Kids are all the time showing up at schools with their parents guns that weren’t secured in the home.
So DCF asks some simple questions. Asks the kids away from dad, the proper thing to do. The. Follow up with dad to varify that. Again, wisely he chose to speak with her as the “never talk to authorities” thing never works out (especially when you are in the right).
As the article that PETE wrote (I only emphasize that as there are some striking oversteps in truth and logic) he wasn’t not even accused of any crime. It was just a concern. About guns. And kids. And last I checked, you still can’t fix dead. (The biggest issue with the “logic” of the article and falsehood put forward is that he should be able to “face his accuser”….he wasn’t accused of anything.
And while I vomited a little just thinking about this….but @Glenn might actually be on to something. Over stepping feminism isn’t a good thing. And neither are so many “social workers” with ultra liberal schooling and training. As an author once noted….Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder.
A d last, and some how I bet I’m not wrong, this is certainly only a small part of the story…excerpts chosen to titilate and wet the appetite of the cop block masses.
@T
I’m only saying watch how much support you give to DCF. As any cops should know, an anonymous tip is suspect at best. Usually in my experience with neighborhood disagreements, people try to use government agencies like DCF or code enforcement in their wars with a neighbor.
And DCF is only too happy to let themselves in. Remember, that is their paycheck and they will make sure their services are needed so they can get an increase next year.
I recently cut ties with a gal I’ve known for many years who is a CPS “agent.” I have no children but understand am very concerned about the tactics used by these individuals. Very sad to hear this happened to Jeff.
Hey T, would that author your referring to be Rush Limbaugh, or Bill Orielly, or Sean Hannity? Or one of their ilk? Because that would explain a lot about you.
here’s some advice for men in FL. Stay away from children. You can’t if their your own, but otherwise, don’t volunteer for any organizations that deal with children like Boy Scouts, sports, church groups anything. If someone drops a dime on you, you may as well hang up your life. These DCF workers (they used to be called HRS, but when everyone called them Hate, Rudeness and Stupidity, they changed their name to DCF)have more power than the supreme court.
not saying you should or would but i had a run in with that kind of org. back around 80 in ill. but a pump 12 solved that problem real quick. sadly one has to be willing to die for ones family when going up against that kind of gustopo org. but a line in the sand is just that.
Not them. But “one of their ilk”? What does that mean? I’m an unashamed conservative (although but lots of the matters on this site I get accused of being an ultra liberal left winger…very funny).
Thank you all for your concern. I hope this story and video can get 10 million views! My desire is for as many people to see this as possible,so we can put pressure on these agencies to change their tactics.The child abuse hotline is rampant with abuse like in my case where a neighbor reported me just to harass my family!I have spoken to many people about what happened to me and listened to their horror stories of being falsely reported to the DCF by disgruntled family members,friends or neighbors.
As you can see by the numbers in the DCF chart posted by Pete the hotline is clearly being abused. The intent of the hotline is to protect children from abuse but that intent is being diluted by the massive number of calls being made.And I believe the majority of those calls are most likely bogus.If agents are out chasing thousands of bogus calls,investigating innocent families who are victims of malicious intent, that means children who are truly being abused most likely are not be getting the help they need.
And I ask you this,what incentive does the DCF have to truly investigate the hotline calls. The more calls they receive the more their jobs are justified right?
Reform of this corrupt,tyrannical system is in need. Please share this story with as many as you can. Accountability, and,transparency,leads to change. Film everything!
Hey Pete,I just want to thank you again for your help. Just like Ademo did back in April when I was arrested, you really came through and answered my call for help.You and Ademo are truly compassionate people,thanks to you Kate and all the folks at copblock.
ilk: Type or kind. conservative: Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change. So a real conservative would be against all of this government interventionism.
@duba: As apparently you are addressing me, allow me to reply.
In my comment of 12/28 @6:35 pm notes, DCF I this specific case weren’t overly intrusive. The constitution allows / requires the government to oversee things. As that comment correctly points out, the tipster was dead on accurate….even according to the bias story as written by Pete. Now, this subject WAS NOT ACCUSED of any crimes. He wisely chose to speak with her and any dangers appear to have been quickly dispelled.
But as I asked in my comment of the same date at 5:30 pm, “Should anonymous complaints about the police be ignored?” From your comment it appears that you believe as others have noted, that the “tipster” shouldn’t have been believed. Would that be a “double standard” that you are wanting?
And if you’ll read and try and comprehend the totality of my 6:35 comment, you’ll not that I do think that DCF/CPS’s have gotten too aggressive and too intrusive. But in the incident as written, this doesn’t sound like one of those times.
You need to keep in mind that this site is famous for only presenting part of the story. The part that benefits their goals. To paraphrase a frequent ascertion made here, its a “perverse incentive”. And that’s ok, as long as we remember that.
And as your apparent accusation that I can’t be a conservative as I believe in government oversight. Well….. Apparently you don’t love the constitution that so many here claim they do. I do. I believe very strongly in it and think it is clearly one of the most amazing documents ever crafted. All of it (and that parts important….”All of it”). That document lays out our government (and hiding by your last comment, you apparently are a fan of the dictionary so I’m sure you can look up what “government” means). It also mentions some specific rights and reservesS unemunerated others. While keeping all of that in mind, I will again point you to the beginning. While generally a center as not being part of the “law” of the constitution, the preamble clearly lays out what the rest of the do ument is for. That’s very important. The part about promoting the general welfare. Not just your welfare, but the general welfare. If making sure children, who can’t make decisions for themselves as they don’t have sufficent life experience to lean on, is in your opinion a bad thing, then here not much that can be done to help you as you have gone down the “only my rights matter” road so far that you can’t come back.
So to sum:
Yes, I think CPS has an important and tough job to do
Yes, I think that at times they can be overly intrusive.
Yes, I think irresponsible people acting irresponsibly are dangerous.
Yes, I think that the stupid defense of those who act irreponsibly with firearms are going to lead to changes in this nation.
@All
“Liberalism Is A Mental Disorder.”
That would be Micheal Savage, if memory serves. While I’m not particularly partial to Savage, I do go for Rush, Hannity, and my favorite, the Great One Mark Levin.
As I remind the cops, it is not only Libs that have problems with cops. Some here will be conservatives like myself.
I knew who it was. But thanks anyway
And I didn’t read that particular book, just loved the title.
Sadly, this kind of thing is VERY common because CPS/DCFS have no accountability – it’s the same problem with the police. We have a site that exposes many of the issues with CPS and provides a number of tips you can use to avoid having the situation get worse, and in some cases prevent a visit entirely. Jeff, if you’re open to it, I’d like to post about this on Kidjacked.
shawnkhall please feel free to post this any where you think it will get more exposure. I want as many eyes to see this as possible so we can bring about change. I would like to see this story on info wars and InformationLiberation too. Does anybody know how to post this on Reddit?
T, I’m sorry you took offense at my clarification of the word ‘ilk’. You seem to get upset when people answer your questions, a trait that is curious. As for justifying a witch hunt on the anonymous tip, I fail to see in my comment any reference to the anonymous tip at all. Next, you seem to think that the US Constitution has anything to do with this matter. If you’ll reread that wonderful document, this would fall under powers reserved to the states. The only federal involvement are the tax subsidy’s supplied by the Federal Government to the State of Florida. As Shawn pointed out, the Florida DCF has a vested interest in keeping and increasing this money supply. Finally, where was the act of irresponsible use of firearms or the stupid defense of said actors? You claim the tipster was ‘dead on accurate’ yet there were no charges for ‘firing the guns out back’, nor had the police had contact with Jeff ‘to protect’ his children. Yes, I think irresponsible people acting irresponsibly are dangerous. But the only irresponsible people here were the DCF and your overreaching assertions.
‘then here not much that can be done to help you as you have gone down the “only my rights matter” road so far that you can’t come back.’ Again, a very curious assumption not based on anything I wrote.
@dubba: Look at the two, very accusatory posts you directed at me, at my earlier post. You insinuate / say that I can’t possibly be conservative because I believe that government has a legitimate interest in the safety of children.
By making that accusation, you clearly appear to be taking the adverse position. That being the case…if I’m taking the position that everyone’s right matter and that no ones is more important than anyone …that your rights would end when it harms someone else. If I’m basically taking that position….and you don’t like that…that leaves you on the other side of thefence. If I say that someone needs to insure that children’s rights are protected….and your on the opposite of that??? If I say that people have the right to live in peace..your opposite of that would be “I can party as loud as I want at my house”. I see a need for speed limits / enforcement…you would therefore be for driving as fast through school zones as you want to… So you tell me if your positions isn’t just as I characterized it. Its all just about you.
Now, about the constitution. By / according to your comment….DCF can just walk in and do whatever they want…just walk into your house whether you like it not not. Search who ever, whatever. According to you the constitution doesn’t apply to them and they have no restrictions? Is that what you really mean? But setting that aside…
The tip was accurate. The guns were there. As I said, nothing wrong with that…and he WASNT charged. But unfortunately, we live in a world (and especially a country) where everyone wants or has a gun and far to many aren’t responsible with them. I’ve said many times, I and most officer want and like responsible gun owners. But those that defendirresposible gun ownership are what is shoving this county in a very bad direction. Now if you think the “tip” through, and add what the author said happened…the tip says he has guns and he shoots them out back. He says he has guns but doesn’t shoot them out back. Now, how do you suppose anyone else knows he has guns n the house like that ? Maybe parades around with them when he has little kids running around? Don’t know (neither do you). And while none of that is illegal, its also not illegal to report it as suspicious. Now as for investigative techniques…opinions and styles vary.
Now if you’d just look back and get all of the comment not just the part you like / don’t like, you’d see that I says DCF / CPS can be overreaching at times and why I think that is.
Wow, so much flawed logic and so many dubious assumptions. So if he has guns it follows that he must shoot them out back? That because I support individual rights, (Even though I never said as much), that means I’m anti-children? Maybe my insinuation means I consider you a ‘bad’ conservative. One who always supports government rights at the expense of the people. One who values the assertions of ‘anonymous’ tipsters over the word of a responsible gun owner. I can assert that he is a responsible owner because he followed the law in obtaining a concealed carry permit. Most people I know with conceal carry let people know who need to know. But being responsible doesn’t carry much weight with cop types. Cop types think their assumptions, like ‘he twitched, he must be going for a gun!’ mean more than actual facts. You can violate any ones rights by first uttering ‘think of the children’. The children don’t seem to matter during a no-knock warrant. They get cop guns shoved in their faces just like adults. A real conservative is more concerned with government over-stepping their powers. But a cop type doesn’t think they can overstep. Not in dealing with mere ‘civilians’. Or are we all perps that just haven’t been caught yet? Your conservative when it suits you but very liberal concerning others rights and the crushing of those. Think of the children. Take a lesson from Shawn and use your head.
Talk about skewed logic.
I spelled out my approach. If your against that…well, you can figure that how ever you’d like.
And you are still missing it. I didn’t say he was wrong in owning his guns. Didn’t say he was wrong in exposing his kids to them. Again…v e r y. s l o w l y. t h I s t I m e : he wasn’t charged with anything. Did you catch it that time.? But as the “tipster” said…the guns were there…and they somehow knew about it….and if he carries concealed, how do you explain that ? Doesn’t matter….because he wasn’t charged with anything.
But I’ll ask you the same thing I asked Pete way up near the top…
Since you don’t like annyomous tips….should anonymous complainants about the police be ignored? Or are those acceptable to you in your double standard / two faced world view?
Give me an example.
Give me an example.
Give me an example. Just one example of an anonymous complaint against a cop.
My granddaughter is living with her parents, who are drug addicts and traffickers. My daughter has admitted to drugging her and to posting prostitution ads on Craigslist. DCF tested both parents + for oxy. I have contacted the Sarasota sheriffs dept. Nobody will help. These jerks are worthless. Now the parents wont let us see my granddaughter and they will kill her. DCF takes kids for much less than what they have documented against her parents. Sarasota sheriffs office are a bunch of jerks. I hope they all get addicts in their families and have to live through this hell. My granddaughter is 2 yrs. old. God help her.
Every CALEA accredited agency must take anonymous complaints. Most that aren’t accredited also take anonymous complaints.
The biggest and best example would most likely reach back to LAPD’s Rampart Division in like the early 90′s maybe. That’s what broke that case loose.
But anonymous tips are used all the time. Both by us and as I just explained, against us. What happens in the everyday world is say I get an anonymous tip that bobby is carrying an ounce of crack and also has a gun on him. Now, armed with that information, what can I do? I can approach him and engage in a CONSENUAL conversation with him. Or I can sit back and watch. Build my “case” so to speak. See what his behaviors / actions are. If I see something that rises to RS, I can then “stop” him. I still can’t search him unless part of the information I gathered, post tip, supports it. That’s called doing an investigation ( of sorts). In this case, the tip came in and she started an investigation. When there wasn’t enough / any evidence to support going further…she stopped. But just like in my example, the tip can point me towards you, but I have to build a case separate from that tip. That’s also why the idea of “facing his accuser” doesn’t hold. After the investigation is over, if there are charges…they will be independent of the tip.
Same thing happens with the police complaints. If there is nothing to go on other than just some anonymous tip…it ends (as it should).
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like anonymous tips like this or allowing for completely anonymous complaints about the police (in all but the most severe cases). If you feel so strong about something….put your name on it. If your gonna tell a lie….there should be repercussions for that.
Also, allow me to state that anyone who is upset that DCF investigated them shouldnt be…it means that we have a society (increasingly violent and abusive) that cares about its tiniest citizens. The problem is that DCF has unlimited powers, fabricates evidence, leaves children in dangerous homes and takes them from safe ones. And dont believe for a moment that all those hotline calls are not sincere calls from truly concerned individuals. FL is the drug capital of the nation. What do you think is happening to all the kids in these households? My granddaughter is not a single child trapped in an isolated social dilemma. SHe is one of thousands whose parents commit multiple felonies a week. Cops will stop you for a cracked windshield or going over the speed limit by 5 miles but to send an undercover in a violent, drug saturated part of town to protect the innocent is too damn much trouble or something. And dont think they dont treat the reportrs like criminals. I have been threatened with arrest multiple times. I lived with these people and I know what they do. They are pathetic junkies..the dad tries to sell pills everywhere he goes, with complete abandon. You can tell he’s braindead just looking at him. But my granddaughter means nothing to these people…not her parents, DCF or pathetic, filthy corrupt law enforcement. OH, they are all white, so another reason they dont get arrested. Pick up some spanish or black kids with an ounce or two of pot but these other creeps can do whatever they want and its ok.
I fail to see where any boundaries were overstepped here. If ever there was a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” case of everyone wanting it both ways, it would be demonstrated in the job description of a CPS worker. While I agree that social workers wield a terrifying amount of authority that, in the wrong hands, can unleash pure Hell on an innocent family, they’re also burdened with a terrifying degree of responsibility.
Whatever course of action they choose has the potential to be vilified if they don’t make exactly the right decisions from beginning to end. Too strict and they’re considered fascist monsters who snatch children from happy homes like a fairy tale villain. Too lenient and when a child is murdered by their abuser, people will claim that they helped kill the victim with unforgivably apathetic laziness.
In this case, it appears that the system actually WORKED and yet the headline reads “Guilty Until Proven Innocent.” I think the author would have been outraged no matter how the situation were handled. Had Colleen gone to the police first, she’d have been soundly criticized for having brought the fucking cops to his door!
Even though I’ve got no problem with the author telling this story from any perspective he wishes, posting the phone numbers of Ms. Hagan and her supervisor was straight up out of line, in my opinion. This is a person whose job (whether she’s doing it right or not) is to protect children from being brutalized and you’re encouraging people to drag her away from that sacred duty in order to share their sociopolitical opinions about one VERY unremarkable incident. By all means, flood her phone lines with your personal frustrations so that when she overlooks something that would have saved a now-dead child, we can burn her at the stake for being lazy and ineffective.
Not one word of this story offers ANY reason for this woman to be personally interrogated and lectured because the system she’s working for isn’t as perfect as people want it to be. I sincerely hope nobody stoops so low as to actually call that number and treat it like their own personal dial-a-debate. Not cool, man… NOT COOL!
It astounds me the number of CPS-apologists out there. The abuse of this system is REAL. More people die as a result of CPS/DCFS intervention than die should they stay completely out of it – does that sound like a viable, reasonable and honest system to you?
For those who actually think this problem is rare, I hope someone SWATs you (google “SWATting”). Maybe then, and ONLY then, you’ll see how the system is designed to treat anonymous complaints as though they must be coming from someone with absolute insider knowledge and not just some asshole with a grudge or who thinks it might be funny.
These lives and stories are real, and in the situation here where even the *complaint* made no suggestion that the parent was breaking any laws, intervention is not only unwarranted, it’s offensive to liberty. You cannot have a free society when government agents are above the law.
“More people die as a result of CPS/DCFS intervention than die should they stay completely out of it.”
Can you substantiate this claim with even a shred of credible evidence?
“For those who actually think this problem is rare, I hope someone SWATs you”
So you’re saying that if someone sincerely believes that most social workers are NOT fascist boogeymen who take pleasure in deliberately destroying innocent families, you hope someone makes a disastrous false claim against them, just so that your mistrustful paranoia can be supplied with fresh evidence and new “believers”? What a horrible, shitty thing to wish for!
There is a bunch of information on the site kidjacked.com – but since this site won’t allow links in comments, you’re going to have to use a little effort on your own part. Google “foster care abuse and negligence”. If you trust the govt data on it, children are 8x more likely to be abused, 28x more likely to be raped and are more than 6x more likely to be killed than in the general population. This is AFTER CPS/DCFS has taken the child away…supposedly with the intention of putting them in a safer environment.
“So you’re saying that if someone sincerely believes that most social workers are NOT fascist boogeymen…”
Nice misrepresentation of what I said. You work for the state, don’t you? I didn’t say everyone that works for the system is evil, but that like the police, it only takes a few evil bastards who abuse their authority to make the entire system more damaging than any help it could possibly provide. The results speak for themselves – those people affected by the child “protection” system are generally far worse off than their peers as a RESULT of intervention. Of course, those results only speak to those actually willing to listen, and the CPS-apologists (people like you who make excuses for the dead, abused and neglected IN the care of “the system”) are perfectly willing to bury their heads in the sand as long as it doesn’t affect them directly.
Tolerance of ANY govt agency where employees have no liability for when “mistakes are made”, abuse has no repercussions, huge financial incentives are provided to staff who take children away and a code of silence even for court actions (family court is almost always closed session, and even though your children will be taken and your rights will be terminated, you have no right to a jury)…this is a recipe for the worst things the bill of rights was intended to prevent.
This case proves that even when there’s no justification for an investigation (everything within the “complaint” is legal), once you’re on their radar they’ll do whatever is necessary, even if it violates your rights, to get at the truth. Jeff was lucky that this agent didn’t railroad him and try to take his kids. Yet.
And my point in the comment above is that the very existence of SWATting proves that anonymous tips result in completely innocent (and sometimes DEAD) victims – not only of the anonymous tipster but of the police that are used as their weapon. If govt agents follow the law and refuse to violate citizen’s rights then these would be non-issues.
Sadly, that’ll never happen as long as people like you continue to make excuses for them.
Against my better judgment, I will entertain ONE more exchange with you in the slim hope of making myself understood. First of all, I do not work for the state and never have. I am, in fact, a phone sex operator if you must know my profession. My personal experience with CPS consists of twice being the subject of their inquiries. Once, when my daughter went to school after an accident had bruised her face. The other time, someone had made an anonymous claim that my job wasn’t befitting a mother. BOTH times, I was treated fairly and with respect. Both investigations were closed (just like this one) after a single, 15-30 interview which included no demands to privately interrogate my child or search my property.
Your exact claim was (once again) “More people die as a result of CPS/DCFS intervention than die should they stay completely out of it.” If you want to compare horror stories and statistics, you will undoubtedly win given that NOWHERE exists a database detailing happy endings and statistics regarding the number of times CPS didn’t fuck things up. Your accusation that if I don’t join your lynch mob, I must be “one of them” is a tedious and weak argument.
One need not be “breaking the law” in order to create an abusive or neglectful environment for their children. In my case, I’m well within my rights to talk dirty for a living, but if I were taking calls within earshot of my child, I would have been quite out of line and worthy of persecution for it! The same goes for gun ownership. A person can have all the guns they want, but is it OK to toss one (unloaded, of course) into the crib for a toddler to play with?
I never at ANY time said the system was perfect and I CERTAINLY did not make any excuses for people who weaponize said system or authorities who act with spite and secrecy. Holding those monsters accountable would be WONDERFUL, except that nobody feels they deserve to be questioned or sanctioned for their own behavior. Overnight, every CPS worker would be sued by every parent who took umbrage to even being INTERVIEWED, let alone sanctioned in any way.
The tragic reality is that until people stop mistreating their own children, society UNQUESTIONABLY needs to have people looking out for the safety and security of the innocent and defenseless. The problem as I see it is NOT with the “tyranny” of Child Protective Services, but with the very nature of human weakness and cruelty. Too many people want the law to protect them without applying to them and those people are every-fucking-where, not just in positions of authority.
In conclusion, you stated (and I quote) “For those who actually think this problem is rare, I hope someone SWATs you” and then you went on to describe the likelihood of a child to be raped, neglected, and possibly killed as the result of their parents being “swatted.” Finally, you concluded with the insinuation that people like ME are what’s wrong with society. Fuck you most sincerely, you petty and vindictive piece of garbage. May God forgive you for the things you’ve said here because I never will. NEVER.
T, good examples. Sorry for the multiple posts, the PC was acting up. Now let me remind you, in my first two posts, I never said anonymous posts should be ignored. You put that on me without justification. However, lets have a hypothetical. Your neighbor decides he doesn’t care for you and decides to mess up your life by putting you into a database. He calls CPS and says he saw you abusing your children, anonymously. They surreptitiously contact your children at their school or some other way and interview them without your knowledge. Your son has a conspicuous bruise from falling off a bike or skateboarding. He tells the truth but they don’t believe him because ‘he seemed nervous when answering the questions’. What can you do, not being a police officer? The CPS allege there must be something wrong and your being evasive even if you answer their questions truthfully. They claim your being evasive. What do you do?