Two months ago in Greenville, SC, Wesley Swilling was shot at and hit multiple times by Frank Abella and a still-unnamed man man. Swilling died. Abella and his accomplice are said to have acted reasonable, considering the circumstances.
At least that what their colleagues, who also wear badges, would have you believe. And apparently, what the local media thinks worth parroting without question.
The Greenville County Law Enforcement Center – the location where Wes Swilling was gunned-down by Frank Abella and a still-unnamed second shooter
The as-of-yet-unnamed second shooter is an employee at the Greenville Police Department:
- 864.271.5333
- 426 N Main St, Greenville, SC
- http://police.greenvillesc.gov
Frank Abella is an employee at the Greenville Sheriff’s Office:
- 864.467.5100
- McGee Street, Greenville, SC 29601
- http://www.gcso.org
According to the individual who brought this incident to my attention:
Wesley Swilling was shot and killed in the law enforcement center parking lot in Greenville, South Carolina on the morning (3am) of January 14, 2013. The officer and deputy who were in the lot who encountered him have said that Swilling aggressively advanced on them in a threatening manner, screaming “I will kill you” and brandishing what they believed to be a weapon. They said they shot at him, striking him; he fell and that he got up and continued to advance on them.
The ‘weapon’ was later identified as a modified hot glue gun. They shot at him 24 times, striking and killing him. Seven shots hit him including shots to his back, meaning he had his back to them. Twenty-two shots were fired by the deputy.
The police departments cleared their officers, and earlier this week SLED (SC Law Enforcement Division) also said no charges would be pressed. This video was released on March 15:
Anyone who watches the video will see Wesley walking the parking lot, get shot, fall down, attempt to get up and then walk/stumble towards the guardrail. In no way does he appear to ‘get up and continue advancing on the officers’ and I don’t see how he could possibly be doing so with that injury.
And that aside, at what point did the officers realize he had no weapon? They continued to shoot. One officer, deputy Frank Abella, fired 22 times.
Regardless of why Wes was there, the excessive force by the officers was not justified. It comes down to being their word against a man who can no longer speak for himself.
I encouraged the author of that text above to connect with those active in Carolinas Copblock.
- Carolinas Cop Block – website / Facebook / Twitter / [email protected]
I find it interesting that the video wasn’t made public until after the “investigations” have been completed. Convenient for “the authorities” who tasked themselves with determining if their friends acted in the wrong. If they are really transparent then why not make all related evidence available immediately?
This incident – in which a man’s life was extinguished – was apparently not thought not to be important enough for those involved to do a press release. Might that have been different if the person killed had worn a badge?
Swilling’s shooting death happened on Jan. 14th, this screenshot shows that no press release was issued on that incident around that time
Ultimately, what Swilling is said to have done was throw a baseball point a glue gun. I’d guess Abella and his comrade were more apt to shoot as they knew there’d likely be little personal ramification if they were in the wrong.
Swilling’s friends have set-up a Memorial and Tribute
Memorial & Tribute for Wes Swilling
If someone with a badge had been shot might the shooters name been shared? Why is that not the case for Swilling’s unnamed shooter? I’d guess, in addition to the name being shared, so too would a home address and past claims of acting in the wrong (a “criminal” record, though many acts that are said to fall under the label don’t cause victims thus doesn’t prove a person to be bad).
Why didn’t the same happen for the two shooters? What might their past reveal? Have they been involved in other shootings? Do complaints about their actions to those they purport to “serve” exist? Is there a pattern to consider? Is this shooting just the latest iteration of a history of double-standards allowed-for?
In Solicitor clears officers in shooting, by David Dykes and Ron Barnett, posted to GreenvilleOnline.com on March 13, 2013:
Greenville County’s top prosecutor said police officers didn’t use unreasonable force in firing 24 shots at a man and killing him when he threatened the officers at the Law Enforcement Center. . .
He described the shooting as “a very tragic situation.”
He said the action taken by officers “was reasonable under the circumstances at that time.”
W. Walter Wilkins “investigated” and – surprise! – cleared his colleagues of wrong-doing
The article continued to accept claims put-forth by the “top prosecutor” Walt Wilkins, by pointing-out that the conclusion he reached was the same as other “authorities”, namely, Terri Wilfong (the head of the police outfit) and one of the spokespeople of Steve Loftis (the head of the sheriff outfit).
The “officials” at SLED claim to have conducted “an extremely thorough investigation”, but should we be surprised when investigations done by individuals close to the shooters are not thorough?
Two days later Video from LEC in fatal police shooting released was posted to GreenvilleOnline.com
________
UPDATE March 24, 2013:
A write-up by Lyn Riddle posted to GreenvilleOnline.com on March 23, 2013 – Increase in officer-involved shootings raises questions, takes toll on both sides – points-out that not all are satisfied with the “official” story in each of the nine police-involved shootings over the past year. Note that this figure earned the county the title of having the most police-involved shootings among all counties in South Carolina.
I wonder if Riddle is satisfied when reporting that “investigations” done surrounding shootings are done in-house – isn’t the inherent lack of transparency evident in such a scenario!?
Perhaps one should be satisfied that some dissent to the “official” truth was acknowledged to exist, but as tends to be the norm, rebuttal to those stated concerns by “authorities” are included whereas the inverse is not true.
At least Riddle included in the piece a thought-provoking statement by Swilling’s mom:
In the Swilling shooting, a city policeman was confronted by a man in a dark parking lot at the LEC around 3 a.m. The coroner’s report says Swilling threw a baseball at the officer and then advanced in a threatening manner. Deputy Frank Abella fired 22 rounds from his Glock service weapon, reloading once, Loftis said. A Greenville police officer, who has not been identified, fired twice, Wilfong said. Swilling was hit seven times.
His mother, Bonnie Goin, questioned why so many rounds were fired.
“Could they not tell there was no return fire?” she said.
________
UPDATE March 24, 2013:
It was pointed-out that the video surveillance footage from SLED that documents the January 14, 2013 incident with Swilling was not in true chronological order. The video begins not at the beginning of the encounter but with a scene that happened later (of Swilling before he was shot). Was that purposefully done to make more-likely viewers unaware arriving at a desired conclusion?
Keep in mind the fact that Swilling was shot at two dozen times. He was struck seven times, including three rounds in his back. And There is no claim that Swilling ever returned fire, or even fired one shot – he couldn’t – he didn’t have a firearm! In fact, Swilling was walking away from the shooters when the fatal shots were received.
Ask yourself – might this situation have been handled different – the investigation, the amount of attention paid by “the authorities” (and the area media) if the situation would have been reversed? Would a claim of being in fear have been accepted without question?
________
UPDATE March 24, 2013:
Related Resources and Coverage – Wesley Swilling:
Memorial and Tribute for Wes Swilling page on GoFundMe.com
R.I.P Wesley Kyle Swilling, your love and kindness shines on Facebook page
Wesley Kyle Swilling on January 14, 2013 by Clyde Freeman at InnocentDown.com
Circumstances of Mauldin Man’s Shooting Death Remain Unclear by Hal Millard on January 18, 2013 at Simpsonville.Patch.com
Vigil Celebrates Life, Memory of Wesley Swilling by Hal Millard on February 10, 2013 at Simpsonville.Patch.com
Family of Mauldin Man Killed by Officers Plans Lawsuit by Hal Millard on February 13, 2013 at Simpsonville.Patch.com
Police: 1 killed in shooting at law enforcement center by Stefanie Quaal and Casey Vaughn on February 14, 2013 at FoxCarolina.com
Video Released Showing Deadly Shooting At Greenville LEC by Fred Cunningham and Chris Abbotts on March 13, 2013 at WSPA.com
Solicitor Clears Cops in Fatal LEC Shooting of Mauldin Man by Hal Millard on March 13, 2013 at Simpsonville.Patch.com
Video: Law Enforcement Center Shooting Surveillance Tape Released by Andrew Moore on March 15, 2013 at Simpsonville.Patch.com
ALL THE DOCUMENTS ABOVE SAVED TO “WESLEY SWILLING” COLLECTION AT SCRIBD.COM/COPBLOCK
UPDATE March 30, 2013:
UPDATE March 31, 2013:
A close friend of Swilling’s shared this paragraph:
Only Wesley for sure can say how he wound up in the parking lot of the Law Enforcement Center on that morning in January but dealing with frightening situations is not something that should be startling to a police force. To guess at his mental state or how he ended up there is speculation. Bottom line: Wesley carried no weapon, never fired a shot, yet had 24 shots fired at him in a matter of a few minutes, including shots that went through his back, indicating that he was retreating. Wesley Swilling was a tall, powerfully-built, athletic individual. What would have happened in the same scenario had the person in the parking lot been a petite female? Or an elderly person? The instinct of fear seems to have played an enormous role in how the situation played out. The case was investigated and cleared by the very departments it involved, who also took lengthy amounts of time to release information and to put out a video to media that was actually looped, not showing events in the correct order.
No alcohol or drugs were found in Swilling’s system.
UPDATE April 4, 2013:
Hal Millard, who, at least four times before, has covered the shooting death of Swilling at Simpsonville.Patch.com, published Group Releases Video Questioning Swilling’s Death, which included this excerpt:
In the past several weeks, the police watchdog group, Cop Block, has taken up the killing of Swilling, who was shot numerous times by a Greenville County Sheriff’s deputy and Greenville Police officer outside the county Law Enforcement Center on Jan. 14.
Swilling, 31, was shot at 24 times. Seven of those shots, including a few to the back, hit him and eventually killed him. A March 17 post on Cop Block questions the manner of the shooting and the way its aftermath was handled by law enforcement. The group also is critical of the local media’s reporting of the case.
The video doesn’t show anything.
I agree certain. Sure can’t be cited as justification for taking someone’s life.
I guess one accepts a significatie risk when approaching officers displaying a harmless object purposely modifed to resemble a pistol, then ignores commands, and even after being shot, continues to adbvance.
He wanted the attention and sadly he got it. In the end, suicide by cop.
Case closed.
Where is the video that shows him being shot? That little one you have shows nothing and poorly edited. The idiot was making threats towards the officers and he had what looked like a weapon in his hands. How stupid are you people. He was shot because he chose to be very stupid instead of cooperating with the police. You don’t threaten police officers then carry a plastic gun that looked real to them. He was shot for a good reason. The officers where not guilty of anything. It’s people like him that do the most stupid things that get shot. What a major idiot.
“Officer, why did you shoot my client 22 times?”
“Because 21 times was obviously not enough to stop his illegal actions.”
Case closed. Move on.
Wes Swilling will be a future case study for a Darwin Award.
Really, Copblock, if you’re going to accept submissions, at least read it over for literacy before posting. Does everyone who writes up an article live in a damned trailer park?
“Jim Hodge – Allied Home Mortgage have been attacked by lawyers and the liberal press. A self made man of humble means is working hard to restore the jobs lost by these baseless attacks”
http://www.wyff4.com/news/local-news/greenville-news/Video-released-of-LEC-parking-lot-shooting/-/9654794/19330638/-/item/0/-/hs42mez/-/index.html
I am suprised at the rush to judgement against the victim and the rush to accept that what you have heard,or read which you well know is the LEO’s accounts of the night.Especially in the forum in which it is in. That is the problem.One side has been told,that side investigated inside it’s own house .Watch the link I posted above please .It’s 2 min not 28 seconds and it shows what the person who wrote this thought the video you saw showed.You must know “unimportant” things get cut out to show you what they want you to see.Thank you for your time.My brother was a good man.Why you think I’m fighting the system that killed him.Just to live in his death daily No I’m trying to make a change ,a stand for accountability,The same I would face if I killed someone without JUSTIFIABLE CAUSE for force used.They didn’t have to shoot,other measures weren’t taken.Shoot first leaves NO ROOM FOR MISJUDGEMENT.
But you see Michelle, the police don’t have to wait to be ‘fired upon’ to protect themselves, nor does anyone else.
Any resonable person would be ‘in fear’ while watching someone, at night, approaching them with a weapon, refusing to drop that weapon, even after you produced a pistol of your own, then, after shots are fired, the person continues to advance, still armed.
When the police scream at you to put down your gun, while they have their owne guns out, in this situation, I’d lean towards doing it. But, if you want to be a test case in human reaction to stressful situtations vs marksmanship, or to determine if the Bill of Rights will deflect gunfire, be my guest.
There’s a time for using some common sense. This was a case of ‘sucide by cop.’
But you see Common Sense, everything you wrote,it’s true of what anyone would do in THAT situation.However I question the situation itself.See your argument comes from what the police have said happened , please tell what you say…not what police say .Who saw a weapon? Where at anytime in the video I just proivided that the police themselves have provided to back their story do you see Wes approach ,advance or any other word they have used. Where do you hear “drop your weapon”? I’d lean toward putting my weapon down too Common Sense, but if I didn’ have one I couldnt do that could I? I guess protect yourself means to automatically pull the gun and fire until the threat is no longer there as Shea Smith spokesman for County said. Why have tazers if there’s never an instance that you use it? Why was one cop scared enough to shoot 22 times with a reload while the other is only scared enough for 2 ? Weren’t they at the same gun/glue gun fight?That’s a HUGE discrepency that nobody has answered.What tells you about a man with his BACK turned to you ,that he’s coming at you and might FINALLY FIRE that gun he’s holding?I’d like to know that one part because that’s the moment one very scared cop reloaded and someone fired 3 more shots, into his ADVANCING BACK and he DIED.This might be a good place to insert common sense,it just ain’t that common anymore is it. See Common Sense,you bring nothing new to the table except the words you have repeated from the officers.I’m looking for unbias ppl to see what’s really there and not what they’re told to see. I hope having to live in this everyday,I’ll keep someone else from having to. Because you see Common Sense I’m after accountability and equal treatment under the law I’m told to obey and have.So I can look at my children again one day and say always trust the police they are here to protect you .I can’t say that right now.
But it is ‘this situation’ at hand. Every police shooting is unique.
There is no sound to the video so you wouldn’t hear anyone say anything.
I saw the video again and I clearly saw someone who wanted to die at the hands of the police. He failed to obey lawful orders, ones that would have potentially saved his own life. Not only did he continue to advance on the police after he was shot, he had taken ‘positions of advantage’ moving around the police, not running away, but taunting them – sorry, there is no way this is not a ‘good shoot.’
Even the ME ruled it ‘suicide.’
Sorry, your arguments fall on deaf ears for this specific incident. Swilling had a death wish. Perhaps depressed, perhaps chemically unbalanced, but he alone fashioned an object to trick another human being into thinking he was a threat. The police didn’t seek him out and shot him in his kitchen. He alone sought them out.
One must also understand two concepts in police shootings. Ballistics and stress.
The average police officer will never fire his pistol, unless he’s destroying an animal or on the range. That’s just the hard math. Life is not some video game were a single hit incapacitates someone and they fall instantly over. Unless there is a shot to the brain stem, you will survive for seconds even minutes longer.
With a severed aorta, the body will still function for several heartbeats. The heart is small and will empty quickly. With a hit to the femoral artery, it takes 1-3 minutes to bleed to death. Even with a severed carotid, you will have perhaps a minute.
Then you have to understand what a bullet actually does. How it ‘kills’ as it were, typically by blood loss to either the heart or the brain. How long does it take a bullet it expands? 3 inches? 6 inches? Lets say its 7 inches before ‘maximum expansion.’ Stand against the wall and see how thick your body is. About the same time the bullet is capable of doing maximum damage, its already passed through someone’s body. That’s why hit location is important. Little bullets put little holes in people. Some go right through, some hit a rib and bounce all around. There is not textbook situation unless you have a scope and a high powered rifle.
You must hit the brain or the heart. If not, that person will live, for minutes, hours or years. You can hit the stomach, lungs, liver, any other organ, that human body may be in fact suffering fatal wounds (internal bleeding) but you will still live for minutes longer. Even with a collapsed lung, you can live quite awhile.
Handguns are poor at ‘single-shot killing’ – if you want that, pick a rifle round. Any heavy caliber will do far more damage, especially if it hits bone. If you’ve ever hunted, or trapped to some degree, you’d understand that barring a specific ‘fatal’ hit, the body will live for quite awhile. That’s why hunters ‘track’ their animal, because its staggered off somewhere to bleed to death.
Then take into account the reactions of the police in a stressful situation. “That dumb old cop down the street” as it were, does he look like a highly trained sniper? Reality isn’t TV. Accuracy in a police shooting, with increased heart rate, stress, fear, both the police and the subject are moving, is about 15-20%, even when they are within paces of each other. This is the way its been for decades. The police are not Navy Seal-like marksman. If you believe that, you are fooling yourself. Some are, just like other citizens, excellent shooters, but most of the other 700,000 are ‘average’ shooters, who can stand in a line, and put holes in paper targets that don’t move, 15 yards away, on a sunny day, twice a year.
24 shots, 7 hits. That’s about right.
Why one fired 22 and the other 2? That’s anyone’s guess. One is a better shot. One was more relaxed, better trained, not under stress? Not in a position to fire again, was moving, was under the impressing that the initial shots subdued Wes. The number of shots show that one person was clearly afraid, thus in fear for their life, thus a justified shooting.
You’d have to subpoena/FOIA the police report(s) to find out.
This is reality. Wes decided this and forced someone’s hand. Maybe the police could have just driven away. Maybe Wes could have sought mental help. Maybe Wes would have leapt off a bridge.
You can “would’a could’a should’a” this all day long but Wes made his decision when he modified his glue gun.
Haha, he bumrushed the cops with a glue gun? What a dumbass.
Common Sense…let’s talk about it. I went on your journey of a victim being shot .Followed the bullet to the time a heart empties.MY BROTHERS HEART THEY SHOT OUT FROM THE BACK. Let’s walk through what you do …150 physiological changes occur when stress rises. It is the fight-or-flight syndrome. The instinct to survive.
Breathing increases, the heart rate goes up. The officer gets tunnel vision — seeing only the threat. Other senses shut down — night vision, depth perception, hearing. If a suspect is brandishing a weapon, the barrel becomes distorted as if it is four-feet wide. Mental acuity declines.
“Under high stress, a person is not going to be very smart, but they will be strong and fast,” Hancock said. “Fear keeps us alive
“You talk to officers and they don’t really think. They just react to training,” she said.In fact, it is prohibited outright by the Greenville Police Department and examined closely by the Sheriff’s Office. No shooting in the leg to stop a suspect.
Officers are taught to aim for the biggest target and that is the torso. They also are taught to shoot until the suspect stops coming toward them or drops a weapon.
John McMahan, the range supervisor at the state academy, said in the shoot/don’t shoot class, recruits are taught to identify three things before using deadly force: ability, opportunity, jeopardy. Does the suspect have the ability — a weapon — to inflict great bodily harm on the officer or someone else? Does the suspect have the weapon out and pointed? How likely is it someone will be hurt?
The officer then must decide whether deadly force is necessary. In perhaps five seconds. Usually less, Alpert said.
They are taught about other means of subduing a suspect: spray, baton, taser. They call their tactics Plus 1. If a suspect comes at an officer with bare hands, the officer responds with the next higher measure, a baton or spray. Plus 1.
Alpert said an officer confronted with a threat has three choices: flee, take cover and use deadly force.
“The cardinal rule is when in doubt, don’t shoot,” McMahan said
“If you don’t make the right decision, you’ll remember it,” Loftis said.
Common Sense,use yours . Eyes are openiong and lives will be saved because of it. Accountability,change is comin….stay tuned Common ;)
Michelle,
Give it up. No matter what logic or reasonable argument you advance, you will just be told that the cop was correct in his actions. They are now allowed to shoot whoever they want, however many times they want, all in the name of officer safety.
Cops in Torrance shot 60 rounds at the BACK of an unidentified target, because they THOUGHT that it was somebody who posed a threat. How the threat part fits in with the rounds being fired from behind, I couldn’t tell you. But anyway, the cops are not being charged with attempted murder, even though that is clearly what they did. So with this guy in the parking lot with the glue gun giving them the slightest reason to be fearful, they react out of fear. A panicky and fearful shooter probably wouldn’t even notice that nobody other than the cops was shooting. How somebody prone to that type of behavior is allowed to continue being a cop? Well, I couldn’t tell you that either.
Sadly, I am right and you are wrong. There is no requirement for the police, nor anyone else, to wait to defend themselves from what they feel is an immediate threat. They do not have to wait to be shot at to defend themselves.
You are emotional, and playing “would’a, could’a, should’a” but that’s natural. Once again, looking at all the facts, I am correct. The shooting was legally justified.
The DA was right.
The ME was right.
The two police were right.
Swilling decided to end his own life, he just couldn’t do it himself.
If you are is brother, then wouldn’t you have been your brother’s keeper? It doesn’t really sound like it. Had he distanced himself from the family? Mood changes. Erratic behavior? Do tell us about him. His recent break up or some sort? Mental health issue(s)? Medications he may have needed, been on, had taken, not taken, should have taken. PTSD maybe.
Perhaps you need closure and seek out answers to your brother’s suicide. Maybe you will find answers, and maybe you won’t. He alone made this decision.
Having seen a photo of the modified glue gun; at night, in that circumstance, I would have believed it to be a real gun as well.
He failed to obey commands to drop his ‘weapon’ further adding fear into the situation. Even after shot, he continued to act as if he were armed with a real pistol.
A tragic and suicidal decision.
Common Common,you remind me of my new friend Thomas Moore,he like you,has a hidden identity, spew the same BS and eventually start to get emotional in your own right. See I do have a reason to be emotional,you and Tommy however …no need to get emotionally attatched. But sooner or later I say someting tht gets right at the gut u get defensive ego takes over ,Ive known men like you .Your probably a cop ike my new friend Tommy and like him picked at as a child ,filled with hurt and shame that slowly turns to anger and bitterness. I should know right…bitter is my middle name,Im a little dissapointed since your other responses were so “intelligent” to have you give to emotion…well it happens Common,I will let that one go.I know you wish you could let go,tell me what you really think..nonedited version of killing .The power it finally gives to u not so powerful. No worries Im sure we’ll talk again….no way is your ego letting you stop make no mistake I HIS SISTER,am his keeper,and he was with all family that night.so your assesment fails,try again.This time include “What is ruled Ok for murder .Im having difficulty understanding yalls reasoning or lack of. Also rechk those facts ,cops have right to shoot even in the back …they MIGHT be going after HIDDEN AMMO…please and this example given to me by a cop.Us common folk however DO have wait til you inside home…guess we can’t protect the land we keep payin tax on yr after yr. You haveto be comin through us common ppl door before we can shoot…but I guess that is same in your eyes.You have a blessed Easter now…He lives so you can be foirgiven of your sins
I’m not sure why you think I am being defensive and I’m not sure who Moore is. The incident isn’t all that complicated. He presented himself to the police as someone armed with a deadly weapon. It was ‘sucided by cop.’
I have merely made the claim that the shooting was justified. I agree with the findings.
A police shooting isn’t TV. Yes, the police can lawfully shoot someone in the back. Don’t be mislead by some program. The officer’s actions that night were in direct result of your brother’s intentally action.
The police didn’t seek him out. He sought them out. He wanted their attention, thus the baseball.
You claim to be his sister, but you offer no reasoning behind his motivation that night. Reading the ME report, it appears that Wes was a very troubled person. Concussions, depression, suicidal thoughts, learning disability and a brain injury.
Was the level of phentermine sufficent to cause an adverse reaction?
Perhaps he needed psychologial help and refused. Perhaps the family should have had him committed by court order. The report indicated that ‘his sister’ arrived at the police station to pick him up. If he was so troubled, then why wasn’t the police notified then? He was there, you were here. You could have filed a complaint about his mental state and requested a 72 hr hold for a mental evaluation. It really doesn’t matter, this entire incident is the doing on one person. Wes.
If that was you, I wonder what was said that early morning between you and he?
It was a tragic event, but you cannot blame the police for protecting themselves. Wes knew exactly what he was doing, and perhaps he will be the only ever to know why he did what he did.
I only have a minute here but as a quiet observer of this thread I just want to quickly address what Common Sense said. Other than one pill there is no indication Wes was on phentermine and this seems to be something the police depts have latched on to. In fact, I do believe the ME said, and correct me if I am wrong, the one pill was not enough to have affected his behavior.
So why are you even bringing that up? You guys seem to have something going on about that but it’s not relevant.
I have more to say on this later.
Some other thoughts:
Common Sense,
I think much of the point of this post is the fact that it is questionable whether 22 times to shoot at someone without a weapon is excessive, also pausing to reload. At what point did that deputy realize there was no return fire?
I think it speaks to a bigger need for standard protocol across police departments. Certainly if a cop fears for his life there is a point at which shooting can become necessary, but how much training has an extremely young deputy had? And yes, he was extremely young. Many times that lack of experience combined with a panic or fear instinct can trump what actions could have made the situation less tragic.
Regardless of the subject’s mental state, is it not the responsibility of the police to protect any citizen and get them help later if it is then determined that is needed? That is part of why they are entrusted with the public trust.
Also you’ve obviously had access to reports that other members of the public do not, likely because you’re near the case or in this line of work, and is it standard protocol as well that you go around writing about such things on websites? Doesn’t seem like professional behavior to me, a member of the public.
Just a few things to consider.
LS
I think the last gambit to play is the number of rounds fired. It clearly shows me that someone was in fear of their life. Each police shooting is unique. Each officer is unique. One with 20 year experience vs 2 months will each have their own specific reactions to a given situation.
He was in fear. Wes was armed. Wes sought them out, not the other way around. Perhaps the junior feared he’d be shot to death in his police car. Greenville county has lost 24 officers it seems. 3 were shot last year. It sounds like this isn’t Mayberry. Bad things can happen. Everyone has the right to protect themselves, even the police.
If you want more training, I’m all for it. I have no idea what the firearms program in the county amounts too. Some departments have a great budget for training, and others don’t. Take some time and compare this department with others. If you want officers to be ‘crack shots’ – will the taxpayers foot the bill for the ammo? At current prices, it about a dollar a shot. By way of comparison, the ammo budget for the Navy Seals is equal to the ammo budget for the entire Marine Corp. If you want crack shots, it costs money.
I Wes was was believed to be armed, and he was, and refused to comply (drop the gun) and even after being shot, still posed a lethal, imminent threat. Then his light is green to put more rounds down range. You may not like it, but its completely justified.
The mention of the medication only raised a question in my mind as to the adverse reaction one could have taking it. Thus is irrational behavior(s). Again, this is a text book case of ‘suicide by cop.’
Oh, no, you are incorrect. I have the same ‘access’ to information as you do. I’m just better at finding it than most. You’d be surprised what you can find on the internet, you just have to ask the right questions.
Each shooting certainly is unique. In this case, he never returned fire. Those police were out there for at least two minutes or more and they never heard a gunshot from the subject.
Police certainly do have the right to protect themselves. They are also trusted with the safety of the public at large, including those who who may for whatever reasons, personal, emotional or mental, place themselves in a precarious situation. It’s their job to do that in the safest possible manner and to know how to rationally react in such a situation.
If you claim to agree with the ME then why would you even bring up phentermine?
And then can we talk about transparency? The very entity that’s sworn to protect the public took weeks to release the video (yes, I am aware of the SLED investigation) and when it did so, the video it sends to the media is looped and in the wrong order — clearly showing it was tampered with. Why not just release the video as it was?
Even if Wes were in the wrong, the sheer lack of transparency and how the whole situation has been handled by the departments speaks volumes. Why can’t they release the name of the second cop?
The cops did their job. The healing for the family can begin when the grieving process follows it’s normal course. Right now they are stuck in the anger part. The names of the cops are not important as they were acting for the entire departments. It could have been any cop in the building. Why they released the name of one so quickly is questionable. It is not important.
What is important are the facts. He was in a restricted parking lot. FACT. He was there at 3am. Fact. He waited till a single cop came out of the building and threw a baseball towards him to gain his attention. FACT. He presented what appeared to be a gun. FACT. He shouted “I am going to fucking kill you at the officer.” FACT. He was ordered to drop his weapon, which he refused to do. FACT. He was shot and went down. FACT. He got up and continued his forward advance, chanting/rapping at the officers all while being ordered to stand down and drop the weapon. FACT. He was shot at several more times, as they were all moving around parked cars, ducking and shooting on the run. FACT. This is why it took that many shots to stop the immediate threat. FACT. The facts are not disputable. The facts are what they are, facts. The ME stated he about phentermine, but he did not say how long he had been on it. Yes it is claimed that only one pill was in his system, or that the amount was equal to one pill. Was he taking it daily? Where did he get it? Why was it even in his system? Why did the mauldin police get called to his mother’s house after he and his mom had an argument one week prior to this? Lot of unanswered questions on the side of the police as well. These guys did what they were trained to do. Period. You come at police anywhere and threaten them, you will have big problems. You come to their house, THE LEC, and threaten, you are asking to have bad things happen to you. I believe he got what he wanted. The answer is why did he want this and what was so bad in his life that he wanted this?
Phentermine 140/mg was listed in the tox report. Look up the side affects.
You can even find the department policy book online.
I guess I’m missing your hangup with ‘transparency’ – is it just the name you want?
@Moore,
Are you the Moore she spoke of? And I do agree with your comment.
@common sense
Yes I am the Thomas Moore she spoke of. I posted the side affects of phentermine and they were overlooked. I had an ex girlfriend who was on it, and it fried her brain. She was nuts after taking it. It is usually prescribed as ADIPEX, the most common name. Problem is, she was not obese, which the drug is for. And it is only supposed to be used for a few weeks. Her sister had it and she was overweight, so maybe they were sharing. All I know is the mood swings, the violent behavior, the unusual actions. I put it together and knew what was going on. It is dangerous for some folks. With Wes’s history of head injuries and complaining of headaches, this is the last drug he should have had in his system, regardless of what the ME stated. If you get shot or have a severe injury, your first move is to try to stop the bleeding, or you are in shock. You do not jump up and continue to threaten officers. That was the amphetamine kicking in.
Yes common, I agree with all you said. It is a shame that this happened period. We will never know the answers as to why he chose the Greenville LEC, instead of the mauldin police dept. He had to know the shift change schedule, because there is no shift change at 3am. That is a personal belief.
If I offended anyone in anyway, I apologize. It was not my intent. I just happen to know some things and I posted them. Maybe I shouldn’t have. But this site will not let me delete them.
At LS.
I apologize for making you feel like you do. Was not my intention at all.