Rob Harris, 36, and Scott Web, 31, were just enjoying life; going to a shooting range, dinner and finally for a stroll in the park according to the article on TheTimesHerald.com. It was on their way out of the park that they ran into Ron Buckmaster, Maryville’s assistant police chief, and two other armed thugs. According to the article:
they [Rob and Scott] were mistreated by Assistant Chief Ron Buckmaster and are demanding disciplinary action and a written apology.
A recording of the confrontation [I strongly suggest listening to this] between Buckmaster and the two men reveals a heated conversation in which the officer forced the two men to leave the park for openly carrying holstered firearms.
Joy Yearout, spokeswoman for the Michigan attorney general’s office, said anyone who is not a felon can openly carry a holstered handgun. If it is concealed, the person must have a concealed-weapons permit — something both Harris and Webb have.
There are several places where carrying a gun openly is not legal, Yearout said, but that list does not include city parks. It does include places such as schools, banks and churches.
An amazing part of this story, other than the clear power-trip of the assistant chief, is how poorly the Herald covered this story. Not once did they mention the officers clear abuse of power, disregard for the law and the lack of respect he showed throughout this encounter.
Let me breakdown where the Herald dropped the ball
When the two men are first engaged by Buckmaster, the wanna-be gang leader insist that, “for the health and safety of others we can tell people not to [open carry firearms].” Rob/Scott (not sure who is who on the audio) do a great job, throughout, explaining their stance and exercising their rights (legally). After stating their points Buckmaster says, “if I see you back here with those [guns] then we have a problem.” Clearly making a threat which is the only thing they can do, intimidate.
The thugs then break out the ‘I-don’t-know-if-you’re-a-felon’ argument stating, “so any felon can go out and put on a gun?” As a felon myself, stripped of my natural right to defend myself with a firearm, I think this argument is hogwash. I know a lot of people who share my felony status and none of them open carry. Thanks to the harsh penalties that each state has if I were napped for open carrying it’d cost me at least a decade of my life. Do cops really lack that much common sense? To actually think felons would knowingly open carry by three cops and then engage them in conversation?
After that exchange Buckmaster, who, based on his comment, may have been a police officer in Nazi Germany in a previous life, says, ” We have the right to stop and identify people with guns.” Can anyone say papers please? The two open carriers yet again stand their ground and choose to flex their rights. Even asking, “what would we be arrested for if we don’t ID ourselves.” Buckmaster gives the catch all answer, “disorderly conduct.” Yes folks, this officer thinks he can arrest you for failing to ID yourself on a public sidewalk, breaking no laws and having no complaint against you of wrong doing.
As Buckmaster starts to get fustrated when realizing that the men won’t back down he resorts to personal attacks. He tells the men, “You want to be a big man out here walking around with your gun on your hip?” Isn’t that just the best thing you’ve ever heard a cop say?!? I mean what do cops do all day; walk around with GUNS ON THEIR HIPS! Do these guys think before they talk?
One of the men being harassed got asked another great question saying, “If I give you my ID and you prove I’m not a felon. Can I carry here?” To which Buckmaster replies quickly, “NO!” Scott/Rob then replies, “So what’s the difference then” and both men choose to voluntary leave the scene. But not before stating that they’ll be headed to the Sheriff to file a complaint. Buckmaster replies, ” I’m sure they’ll welcome you with open arms.” See even cops know that other officers will protect them, I doubt he would of said that had he known he was being recorded.
If you believe in gun rights or would like to share your thoughts with this officer email him at: [email protected] or call the department he represents (810) 364-6300
I know I am. I’ll post it here later.
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Hi folks, I happen to live only a stone’s throw from there, so I’ll just let you know that the name of the town is Marysville with an S, so remember to include the S in your emails. I was standing up on the side of liberty on the newspaper web site, and lo and behold, they somehow have removed all my posts from public view. I suppose that is their right, since the newspaper is not ‘public property’, but they don’t hold a lot of truck with Liberty oriented views up here. Reading the comments, this is one of a very few issues where about half actually come down on the side of liberty. On any other issue the sheeple are lock step up here. Thanks for posting this on a worldwide forum!
Hello, I’m writing to you to inform you that the e-mail address that you listed for assistant police chief Ron Buckmaster does not appear to be valid. I just got finished typing up and sending an e-mail to him, only to be informed via a yahoo support e-mail that there is “No MX or A records for cityofmaryvillemi.com.”
Also, I wish to convey my gratitude that you and your associates go through the effort to post articles like this. If only more members of society were better informed about the brutish, corrupt way that many but not all cops handle their interactions with people. I myself have been at the receiving end of intimidation by the police on many occasions and in one particular instance the encounter reeked of racism. I was threatened and intimidated because I did not wish to give up the identity of an associate who shouted out “fuck the police” before fleeing the seen in a cowardly manner. I was not even involved in the incident nor was I near them but I was still stopped by the police and threatened. I did not give in and told them that no illegal acts had been committed which merely infuriated them more which led to more threats and intimidation. Keep on keeping on and I’m going to be sure to start carrying my camera with me more often to document such incidents.
As a member of both the Brady campaign and cop watch I am not at all on board with open carry laws. I feel it was appropriate to ask for their ID and that I would not feel comfortable in the park with these men carrying guns. This not the wild west and their are a lot of gun deaths in this country by accident and premeditated. And Cops would have a lot less siege mentally of us and them if we did not have so many guns in the hands of people who should not own them. We would decrease police brutality ten fold to rescind these archaic gun laws.
To editor: You lose credibility when you refer to Nazi Germany in making an argument. See Godwin’s Law at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
Anyhow, I think the police actions need to be challenged. Someone needs to disobey the police when they give an (un)lawful order and then litigate it.
i like your blog. i’ve even included it on my blog. http://www.blog2.tshirt-doctor.com/?p=12618
and http://www.blog2.tshirt-doctor.com/?p=12234
i’ve seen comments dissing you because of you calling cops gang members. keep it up, your not alone!! i have a series of articles on my blog called “It’s Sunday!!!” where i have web pages to where the gang members have been arrested by their gang member brethren. it can be found at http://www.blog2.tshirt-doctor.com/?cat=20
sunday is a rest and relaxation day for americans. that is why it’s the cops suck!!! day for me. :O)
Thanks; I think there is supposed to be in S in Marysville. Another reader informed me of this… that might work? I will try and call this officer tomorrow, hopefully he’ll atleast give me his correct email addy. I got that from their website so…
Bernard,
Thought there are a lot of holes in your explanation of why you would want to limit people’s rights to open carry. I just want to make one point. Cops are just as much strangers and have the same ability to cause any and all of the harms you mentioned. So why are you fine with them carrying guns but not others? Do you know every cop? Who is to say who can and can’t own a gun? Wouldn’t it just be better to allow everyone the right to defend themselves?
In many States – Idaho included – Citizens are empowered to affect a “Citizen’s Arrest” :
1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not in his presence.
3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.
And in Idaho, “Disturbing the Peace” is described as – among other things :
(1) Every person who maliciously and willfully disturbs the peace or quiet of any neighborhood, family or person, by loud or unusual noise, or by tumultuous or offensive conduct, or by threatening, traducing, quarreling, challenging to fight or fighting, or fires any gun or pistol, or uses any vulgar, profane or indecent language within the presence or hearing of children, in a loud and boisterous manner, is guilty of a misdemeanor [ emphasis mine ].
And so, I got to thinking…
Any intra-departmental job requirements notwithstanding, once I have politely reminded an Officer of my right to still and / or video photograph an Officer in the performance of their duties and / or have reminded an Officer of the fact that I am not required by law to produce identification – if I have not committed or suspected of having committed a specific offense – and / or any number of other scenarios where I am not required by law to submit to an Officers demands, the Officer’s conduct has become offensive to me, is disturbing my peace, is quarrelsome and is grounds enough to place that Officer under “Citizen’s Arrest” for violation of Idaho § 18-6409 : Disturbing the Peace.
Physically placing an Officer under arrest is not required. According to Idaho § 19-608 just stating : “Officer Such-n-Such, you are under citizen’s arrest for Disturbing the Peace. I am going to call Police Dispatch now and request an Officer to take you into custody” is all that’s required.
And Idaho § 18-701 makes it a crime for another Law Enforcement Officer to refuse to take the charged Officer into custody. Although they may choose to merely issue the offending Officer a summons vis-a-vis physically arresting them.
Just a thought.
The only obstacle to a peaceful day in the park is a Thin Blue Whine of pompous aggression. How does it feel paying for their bloated pensions?
Bernard, you do realize that crime rates in the “Wild West” were lower than they are today?
Bernard, How is your “comfort” relevant to individuals exercising their rights?
I like Porcupine’s idea about making citizen’s arrests on cops for disturbing the peace of citizens who are effecting their rights by bearing arms and/or photographing/video recording the cop(s).
The only safety such arrogant cops are concerned about are their own, including their job security and pension. With merely nominal “internal investigations” and days of “administrative leave”, before returning to business as usual, as their only punishment for egregious crimes like murder, torture, constitutional rights violations, they apparently don’t even have to worry about being fired/job security! What about our safety from awry cops?!
I am Rob Harris. If you’d like to stay up to date with this issue please check this link. I started a thread about soon after it happened. Thank you for your support.
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?76015-Marysville-Stop