Bakersfield Man Dies During Arrest, Eye Witness Video Footage Confiscated

Published On May 12, 2013 | By CopBlock | Articles

In an incident reminiscent of the Kelly Thomas tragedy, an unarmed Bakersfield man was killed during an attempted arrest by local law enforcement.

Kern County Sheriff’s deputies were investigating David Sal Silva for public intoxication. In total, nine officers of the Kern County Sheriff’s department and the California Highway Patrol beat Silva to death, as they claimed he resisted arrest. Several witnesses apparently captured footage of the beating on their cell phones. But, the cell phones were confiscated by deputies as evidence.

The Kern County Sheriff’s department released the following names of involved officers:

Ryan Greer
Tanner Miller
Jeffrey Kelly
Luis Almanza
Brian Brock
David Stephens

The CHP has not released the names of its officers involved in the arrest. More details here.

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  • slappy

    More fucking bullshit from activists who don’t know the whole story. Amazing how these fucked up activists make all of these claims and then say the video was confiscated. Fiction is fun.

  • John
  • Matt

    Pigs trying to cover their shit reeking asses.

    Another murder, committed and covered up by the completely corrupted US just-us system.

    9 “officers” should be standing trial for murder.

  • Matt

    “When I got outside I saw two officers beating a man with batons and they were hitting his head so every time they would swing, I could hear the blows to his head,” Ceballos said.

    Silva was on the ground screaming for help, but officers continued to beat him, Ceballos said.

    After several minutes, Ceballos said, Silva stopped screaming and was no longer responsive.

    MURDER……. It’s that simple.

  • t.

    You guys are gonna flip out when the acquittals in the Kelly Thomas case come out.

    BTW, how does the sound of a baton strike to the head sound different than a baton strike anywhere else?

  • Common Sense

    Once again, a ‘rush to judgement’ as it were – how many times has the public screamed out, only to have rational thought, impartial investigations clear the police of wrong doing? More often the not.

    But yes, video evidence (2 cell phones) were seized by the police hours after the incident. But as is so often with Copblock, you never get the whole story. Not even close.

    The police, with the permission of the cell phone owners, attempted to download the footage. That was not possible apparently, so they were advised a search warrant was going to be sought. Shocked I know. The police can detain someone while a search warrant is obtained. One was seized pursuant to a valid search warrant and the second, depends on who you read, said that cell was turned over willinglly and another said under duress (he didn’t want to be late for work). Once released by a judge, the cell phones can be returned.

    Early reports suggest Silva was ‘highly intoxicated’ and had ‘attacked’ the K-9 officer.

    Early reports show Silva died from ‘troubled breathing’ – not a fractured skull.

    But, again, time will tell, but please, don’t let me get in way of your emotional cries.

  • certain

    Sorry, mall-cop, there probably won’t be an acquittal in the Thomas case. At least the fat Mexican thug will go down. I don’t know about old one-eye, but now that his whole getting paid 100% disability by one department while working for another is in the public eye, he’s probably committed his last crime with a badge as well. And then all of them involved still have the feds sniffing around. Probably in case they are acquitted and the feds decide that all involved need to be jacked up federally a la Rodney King style.

  • http://www.policemisconduct.net Glenn

    All the more reason than to download the ACLU PoliceTape App and use it! My hidden cameras have the ability to upload clips, in real time, to my YouTube account. Let the cops keep the phones, the video is saved elsewhere.

    > ONE WICHITA POLICE OFFICER RAPES A 3 MONTH OLD INFANT AND A 1 YEAR OLD CHILD! THEN A SECOND WICHITA POLICE OFFICER RAPES A 15 MONTH OLD AND A 4 MONTH OLD CHILD! <

    When you see common sense, t., underoath, psosgt and all the other police union shills spew their boot-licking propaganda here on Cop Block, remember, THIS IS WHO THEY ARE, THIS IS WHAT THEY STAND FOR, AND THIS IS WHAT THEY DEFEND!

    Wichita KS police officer Officer Joseph T. McGill, 28, was convicted today of committing a sexual act on a 3-month-old child and a 1-year-old child. Officer McGill pleaded guilty in January 2012 in an unrelated case to sexual battery while on duty as a police officer and was sentenced to three years probation. Those charges stemmed from separate incidents in November 2010 and February 2011. The judge set sentencing for March 1.

    http://www.kansas.com/2013/01/24/2649372/former-police-officer-convicted.html

    Wichita police officer Gregory P. Nicks on Friday received consecutive life prison sentences for sexually abusing a 15-month-old girl. The 32-year-old worked for the Wichita Police Department for just over three years beginning in 2006. Prosecutor Justin Edwards introduced three written statements at the hearing, including one from the victim’s mother. She said Nicks had used her daughters — the 15-month-old and a 4-month-old — as sex objects to fulfill his sexual fantasies.

    http://www.kansas.com/2013/05/03/2788414/former-wichita-police-officer.html

  • BJ

    I have no doubt there will be acquittals in the Kelly Thomas murder because police are so seldomly held accountable for their actions. Slaps on the wrist and paid vacations are the norm.

    Congratulations t., I’m glad you can’t distinguish the the very distinct sound of a metal baton hitting the bone of the skull from the sound of it hitting a fleshy part of the body. Good job.

  • BJ

    “Rational thought” and “impartial investigations” can’t be claimed when police “investigate” their own which happens more often than not.

    You’re right, it is pretty shocking that police would seek a search warrant before simply taking property that doesn’t be long to them. But what you failed to mention is that at least one phone was seized without a warrant and a warrant for another was sought only because an attorney for that witness became involved. The owners of the seized phones were also informed their property would be returned the next day only to be later informed, “It could take years”.

    Early reports suggest that Sal Silva endured/expired from at least 19 blows from 3 different officers.

    Time will tell if the seized video footage ever sees the light of day.

  • Shawn

    @T

    I wouldn’t be the least surprised by an acquittal. That doesn’t make them innocent. (Your words left and right when you can’t prove your case.)
    It just means the system has no interest in convicting their own agents of murder. The government is the ones paying for the prosecution and investigation. It is their agents doing the investigation. They aren’t interested in anything that proves their own fault. Might as well have Al Capone investigate himself for tax fraud.

    Have you ever even considered that when cops go ‘crazy beat down’ that you are sending the message that you aren’t taking prisoners?

    The simple truth is that if cops literally beat someone to death, it is murder. A person has long since stopped being a threat by the time you’ve reached the point of killing them.
    Or you’re using tactics that are lethal to begin with. Face it, in the Kelly case the cops clearly lost control of themselves. The fact you can’t call it murder shows you are the same as those animals.

  • Common Sense

    Property seized in a search warrant becomes property of the court. They wanted the warrant, they got it, now they can wait for a judge or magistrate to release it. Such is life. Be careful what you wish for.

    As far as Kelly goes, I think one will take the heat, but it won’t be for murder. Murder requires intent. Maybe manslaughter. The other will be either be offered immunity or will be acquitted. Par for any case. Someone will take the deal, just depends on who.

  • Common Sense

    19 blows hun? If there were to the head, then you have something.

    If they were to areas that officers are trained to strike, then you have hype.

    …but I’m waiting for the ME report, unless he too is in on the conspiracy of course.

  • YankeeFan

    According to the Bakersfield Californian:

    John Tello, a criminal law attorney, is representing two witnesses who took video footage and five other witnesses to the incident. He said his clients are still shaken by what they saw.

    “When I arrived to the home of one of the witnesses that had video footage, she was with her family sitting down on the couch, surrounded by three deputies,” Tello said.

    Tello said the witness was not allowed to go anywhere with her phone and was being quarantined inside her home.

    When Tello tried to talk to the witness in private and with the phone, one of the deputies stopped him and told him he couldn’t take the phone anywhere because it was evidence to the investigation, the attorney said.

    “This was not a crime scene where the evidence was going to be destroyed,” Tello said. “These were concerned citizens who were basically doing a civic duty of preserving the evidence, not destroying it as they (sheriff deputies) tried to make it seem.”

  • YankeeFan

    The cops wanted that vide evidence really bad it seems. Wonder what they captured on film?

  • BJ

    It wouldn’t be hype at all. The human body can only take so much trauma before it enters into a state of shock, a symptom of which is troubled breathing. 19 blows (and that’s probably a conservative estimate + plus the trauma they cause) from metal batons to any part of the human body could and and probably did lead to this man’s death. You can try to spin it any way you want but the result of officers encountering this man in all likelihood lead directly to his death. It will be interesting to see just how long it takes for the medical examiner’s report, video footage and official witness statements to be released. My guess is that witnesses will get their phones back once officials formulate what they feel is an effective white-wash job and as we know that will probably take years.

  • wiguy

    This is another brutal murder/cover-up. Many occur while few are brought to light.

  • Jason
  • YankeeFan

    slappy says:
    May 12, 2013 at 9:57 am
    More fucking bullshit from activists who don’t know the whole story. Amazing how these fucked up activists make all of these claims and then say the video was confiscated. Fiction is fun.

    Not a good troll effort, Slappy. We do know the video was seized by the police. You really need to step up your game.

  • Casual Observer

    Nine men present (seven Kern County Sheriff’s Deputies and two California Highway Patrol officers), while an UNARMED suspect is beaten to death with batons. That’s a fairly simple call.

    So was the fusillade of 60 hollow-point rounds that sent two UNARMED women to the hospital with life-threatening injuries earlier this year, during the Dorner manhunt.

    Like the multiple LAPD officers responsible for that shooting, these goons in Kern County will also walk away from any felony charges. If you can’t recognize a police state when it’s right in front of your eyes… then you deserve to live in one of the dozens of major metropolitan hell-holes that exist in the U.S.S.A. today.

  • RadicalDude

    Common Sense says:
    May 12, 2013 at 2:03 pm

    how many times has the public screamed out, only to have rational thought, impartial investigations clear the police of wrong doing? More often the not.

    ^^^rational and impartial, get real

  • Steve H.

    I still think leos should use the stuff Dexter uses. They shoot bears with tranquilizer guns, don’t they?

  • KentMcCord

    I believe in the 1st and 2nd amendment, so if a cop tries to unlawfully confiscate my footage,camera or phone, best believe I will use any means necessarly to keep it safe, even if it means taking that officers life.

  • slappy

    It would be nice if these idiot officers learned how to do their job correctly and serve the public instead of trying to bully people.
    How these bad cops get what they deserve!

  • THUGS IN BLUE

    Give Officer Ryan Greer a call @ (661) 393-3975 and ask him if he would like done to his Mother what was done to Mr. Silva. Ask him if he believes he MURDERED Mr. Silva, and who should be responsible for his Murder.

  • slappy

    John you dumbfuck. You take your story from an atrivist run website. That makes the story complete bullshit. The police aren’t in trouble about this. That guy was fighting them all the way. Of course bleeding heart fuckup activists will always side with the criminal. John you dumb ass why don’t you get your info from real news sources instead of dumbfuck activist run websites.

  • Lakewood_in_Afghanistan
  • Keith

    Wow, i just realized what huge PUSSIES slappy and common are. They actually believe it is normal for it to take 9 cops to arrest 1 unarmed man, and after apparently failing, breaking out the clubs to beat this dude with. Yeah, that is the spot on definition of a PUSSY!!!

  • upyourarse

    Once again,how can one man, in a black robe,give another person the right to your property.At the very least,this is an eminant domain issue.Probably,felony distruction of evidence,but at least the court owes these people money for thier phones,and any purchased intelectual property on the phones such as apps or pics or even documents scanned or saved.
    The best way to deal with cops is to submit,give them you hands and shut up.Go to jail quietly and hire a lawyer.If you are going to do something violent,cops will kill you,THEY LOVE KILLING.

  • upyourarse

    When will people start killing cops when we see them killing citizens?

  • slappy

    Keith – I believe you are the fucking pussy. The officer probably had his hands full with the idiot and called for back up. If he hit the button on his transmitter for officer in trouble everyone responds that’s in that area. Since you are such a fucked up liar, where is this so called video? The fought the police not the other way around. Looking at other news sources the people they interviewed as “wittnesses” continued to tell different stories. This is all fucking bull crap by activists. Go choke yourself loser.

  • Unjustified

    This has become the norm in the United States…. Law enforcement officers hide behind their badge while participating in criminal activity. Their departments are filled with Sociopathic & Psychopathic individuals. On a daily basis, these individuals violate citizen’s civil and constitutional rights. They have been given more latitude to cause death, physical, financial and emotional harm to U.S. citizens than any other organization. Their actions are overlooked, condoned and in many cases encouraged and rewarded by their department(s) leadership. Lies and justification are all they know. Historically, the truth is twisted & fabricated to make their victims appear to be the criminals. And they want me or others to cower or show respect? I didn’t take an oath to abide by the laws and uphold the constitution. They did.

    Here’s a fact…
    America’s #1 Terrorist Threat is Corrupt Law Enforcement

  • slappy

    Yankitfan – You are dumbshit. Again, there were holes in people’s stories. The biggest holes come from assholes such as yourself and activists. Funny how conveniently the video supposedly “disapears”. There is a lot more to this story then what some sumbass activist is saying.

  • Unjustified

    Slappy … What a cute name. Psychopaths always want psychological gratification in sexual and criminal activities.

  • defender

    Officer Ryan Greer lives with wife Tarrah T Greer at
    6901 Hooper Ave
    Bakersfield , California 93308
    661-391-3175 is their phone number, hell stop by to chat about this killing sometime. I’m sure they would welcome the visit. You see officers there are some of us who have access to NCIC and will honour their oaths to the People and to the Constitution. We know how to use the system and you can’t escape justice. – Defender

  • Knight

    Wow, another murder by the losers I work for.
    Hey slappy, shithead, and the other fucktard cop shills. I am the guy who designs your security systems and I fucking hate your guts.
    I am no activist. Just some ‘smart’ dude sick and tired of this bullshit.

  • defender

    Deputy Doug Sword and Mary Catherine’s info is forthcoming as well as the others, until these killers are removed from duty, I will begn posting all of their personal info, for educational purposes of course.- Defender

  • Keith

    Slappy, again, you are a child. How am i a fucking liar, I have stated only opinion, which does not relate to truth in any way, it’s only my opinion. You son, are stupid as fuck. As evident by you totally missing the very elementary meaning I put forth. I know how “backup” works. You call for it, and everyone in the vacinity comes. I never mentioned that at all, i mentioned how you must be a pussy if you and 8 of your buddies can’t bring 1 man under control without beating him with clubs. Hopefully that explanation was simple enough for you to understand.

  • defender

    Oh one more thing, Officer Ryan Greer’s patrol car number is W8126 located on the back of the decklid on the upper left side should anyone wish to discuss this issue and need an identifier. – Defender

  • Unjustified

    To get an accurate and honest report regarding the death of David Sal Silva is unrealistic.

    In Kern County, the Sheriff is elected to serve as the Sheriff-Coroner-Public Administrator.

    Isn’t it comforting to know that cases involving deaths at the hands of law enforcement will be investigated by the very ones that killed them.

  • YankeeFan

    Slappy,

    There are no holes in anything. The videos were taken by police. Go spend some of that troll effort and do some research like an intelligent human being you dumb fucker. This has been published in the Bakersfield newspaper so go do some simple research you narrow minded piece of shit.

  • Matt

    defender: Officer Greer’s back yard is a mess. Somebody could get hurt back there. Looks like he needs to clean his pool as well.

  • Matt

    Subject: Law Enforcement Day at the Sheriff’s Office 2013

    Details: The Kern County Sheriff’s Office would like to invite the public to attend “Law Enforcement Day at the Sheriff’s Office 2013” on Saturday, May 18th from 10 am to 2 pm at the Sheriff’s Office headquarters facility at 1350 Norris. Rd. in Bakersfield. Have you ever driven by our headquarters facility and wondered what goes on at your Sheriff’s Office? Do you know about all the services the Kern County Sheriff’s Office offers to the public? Have you ever wanted to walk up to a SWAT member, a Search and Rescue diver, a crime scene investigator, or a K-9 team and ask them questions? Do you have questions about how to start a Neighborhood Watch program, or become involved in our Explorers program? At Law Enforcement Day you can do just that. The Kern County Sheriff’s Office is opening its gates to the public at this open-house type event. We welcome everyone to come out to this free event and enjoy the day getting to know their local law enforcement agency. During Law Enforcement Day at the Sheriff’s Office there will be entertainment for both children and adults. Static displays, information booths, demonstrations, and handouts will be displayed all throughout our facility for the public to explore. Mounted Patrol will have their horses set up on the grass at the front of the building. Other units participating in Law Enforcement Day at the Sheriff’s Office include Sheriff’s Emergency Response Team, Honor Run, Citizen Services Unit, SWAT, Bomb Squad, Rural Crimes, Search and Rescue, Explorers, Crime Prevention, Coroner’s Office, Civil Division, K-9, Off Highway Vehicle Team, Public Administrator, Air Support, and the Crisis Negotiation Team. A survey booth will also be available to the public. Vehicles used by the Kern County Sheriff’s Office such as patrol cars, dirt bikes, snow mobiles, helicopters, and hovercraft will be on display. The Crime Prevention Unit will offer a presentation and handouts to the public about Neighborhood Watch at 12 pm in the auditorium as well. There will also be a recruiting booth to provide information to people who are interested in a career with the Sheriff’s Office. This event is a great opportunity for citizens to come out and meet the men and women in law enforcement who work and put their lives on the line every day to make Kern County a safer place. Becoming familiar with the Sheriff’s Office helps to build a strong relationship between the community and law enforcement, thus helping us to work together to fight crime and improve the quality of life in Kern County. The Kern County Sheriff’s Office wants to get to know you, answer your questions and make you feel welcomed at our facility. The media is encouraged to attend as well. If you would like further information about this event, please contact Kern County Sheriff’s Office Crime Prevention Specialist Ashley Glover at 661-392-6914 or by email at [email protected]

  • slappy

    Knight – you are a dumbfuck moron. IS your little title supposed to ad valitity to who you are? You’re nothing but a worthless piece of shit.

    Yankitfan – Again your dumbass remarks do nothing and say even less. I won’t believe anything until the police finish any investigation. It’s always dumbfuck loser activists like yourself who say the video was taken by the police. Oh, boo hoo. MAke a noose and go choke yourself you dumb fucking loser.

  • Unjustified

    To the family of David Sal Silva… may he rest in peace. You are in my thoughts and prayers. Please take comfort in knowing that there are people out here that will fight for justice to be served upon those that killed him.

  • YankeeFan

    Slappy,

    Well said troll. I knew you couldn’t respond with an intelligent response. Stating the same things over and over does not make you anything but a troll and not a very good one.

  • YankeeFan

    On Friday, KERO television aired a video of the beating and audio of a 911 call.

    On the 911 call, witness Sulina Quair is heard to say, “There is a man laying on the floor and your police officers beat the [expletive] out of him and killed him. I have it all on video camera. We videotaped the whole thing.”

    “I have been crying a lot and his voice just plays over and over in my head,” Quair told reporters Friday. “I sit there and I can still hear him choking in his own blood, trying to gasp for air.”

    Quair’s sister Melissa says that her boyfriend’s cell phone was confiscated by police. The boyfriend gave up the phone to police, even though they did not have a warrant, because he did not want to be late for work. She said the police also demanded her phone, but that she would not turn it over without a warrant.

    The cause of death report from the coroner’s office is waiting on toxicology and microscopic studies.

    The sheriff’s office identified its officers involved in the arrest as Sgt. Douglas Sword, and deputies Ryan Greer, Tanner Miller, Jeffrey Kelly, Luis Almanza, Brian Brock, and David Stephens.

  • RadicalDude

    I think in instances like this, it may be better to wait a little while before coming forward w/ the video evidence, give the cops a chance to lie so they can get caught in the lie, and also don’t give them a chance to take the phone and thus keep the video out of the public domain, which seems to be happening here? Eventually, it should come out, though, right?

  • defender

    Matt, so you did a googl street view of the address? Was the crusier located at the residence? I am awaiting the remaining information which was told to me to be coming in the next few days. Strange that someone from the dept. contacted me. Why me? Could’nt begin to answer that one, unless it is all the info I have posted thru the years, and being a former Deputy who resigned due to the corruption. Maybe that’s it. I am an Oath Keeper http://www.oathkeeper.org and will honour my oath to the people and to the constitution. I ask that you join as well, one need not be a former , or active member of LE of military, of which I am both. Only requirements are that one is willing to take the oath and honour it.There are a few of us who will do what is legally and morally correct in spite of the demands placed on us to do otherwise. For me honour is just as important as the freedom we take for granted. Thanks for the civility and comity on your message. Pax aut bellum, MOLON LABE. – Defender

  • Jason

    Defender, you rock! =)

    By the way, if you really have access to NCIC, then could you please provide the information for John Moody of the Manteca PD? He was involved in an absolutely brutal murder.

    Some Anons are trying to get his info (http://anonnews.org/forum/post/30012), but they’re not sure if it’s the right one. I imagine many of them don’t want to “dox” an innocent person.

  • Unjustified

    to defender….

    I like your style. Thanks for the information on “http://www.oathkeeper.org”. It feels good to know that there are people that actually have high moral values they will stand up for.

  • JayInDenver

    This was vicious and unforgivable. That said, we must remember that even if the footage was never confiscated (or is recovered and is, improbably, undoctored) cops usually get off with the following tautology:

    “Well, the tape doesn’t tell the whole story.”

    It disgusts and saddens me that this gambit usually works. Therefore, the next time a PD spokesperson or city attorney recites it to absolve their murderous black-clad buddy, our response should be this:

    “Maybe not. But it tells more of the truth than the police do.”

  • Ariel

    t.,
    “BTW, how does the sound of a baton strike to the head sound different than a baton strike anywhere else?” When you see it…ba-da-boom.

    Shawn,
    I remember Simi Valley and the Rodney King incident so yeah “I wouldn’t be the least surprised by an acquittal. That doesn’t make them innocent. (Your words left and right when you can’t prove your case.)” It’s much harder to convict a cop of (excess) violence on the job than anyone else. It’s not just for the good reason I can think of but which is the only reason most cops usually give.

    Common Sense,

    “Early reports suggest Silva was ‘highly intoxicated’ and had ‘attacked’ the K-9 officer. Early reports show Silva died from ‘troubled breathing’ – not a fractured skull.” And early reports claimed a kid after a game attacked some police horses. Later reports said the police involved lied in their reports, but only because the video came out. Otherwise, it would still be “kid attacked police horses”. Shouldn’t we ignore the early reports? Aren’t all early reports suspect?

    “Troubled breathing” by the way can come from skull fractures. Just depends on where. The ME’s report is not out yet, but early reports are enough for you here.

    “how many times has the public screamed out, only to have rational thought, impartial investigations clear the police of wrong doing? More often the not.” You do mean when the Feds come in don’t you? When those “rational thought, impartial investigations” by the locals end up in Federal convictions? More often than not, but then the Feds usually only come in when it’s a really good case. I have a reasonable feeling that “clear the police of wrong doing” for you leads to your “rational and impartial”. If it is done by police departments well separate from the one the accused belong to, such as a state over a city, I would concede with minimal reservation.

  • Ariel

    Defender, and all of you revelling in what he did at 15:13, you’re the biggest group of fucking low-life schmucks I’ve had the displeasure to see at one time on any blog I’ve ever visited other than Stormfront. And it’s a push.

    Defender, if you’re an Oathkeeper, you’re the lowest fucking representation of one I’ve had the displeasure to read. You published his wife’s name too? Really, you fucking schmuck, really?.

    No, it wasn’t for “educational purposes” you adolescent POS, it was to give the crazies an easy target, while you can wash your hands of it all.

    I’m waiting for a response from Oath Keepers on this. I will follow up with putting it on the forum.

    Yankee Fan, Shawn, Radical Dude, and others (not you slappy, you’d only detract no matter what you write): I don’t know how or why this wasn’t addressed by any of you. You’ll notice my response isn’t my normal verbose, pompous, pedantic, whatever, but profane and angry. Defender’s post deserves even worse, and his reply will get what I really think. I haven’t yet scratched the surface of my disgust.

  • slappy

    I sucked a cops dick yesterday! I couldn’t believe it. He said I could fuck his mom and little sister to. That made my mom and little sister happy!!! Tomorrow he’s taking me to the station for a circle jerk. I get to be the cum dumpster in the middle!!! I AM SO HAPPY!!!!!

  • Matt

    Ariel……

    The “crazies” killed an unarmed man last week. The “system” will protect them. The “crazies” hide behind their badges and use them to do whatever the hell they please.

    defender’s post is exactly what is needed, nationwide. Corrupt enFORCErs upholding and protecting a broken/corrupt/unjust system are the lowest representation of those who BREAK their oath everyday.

    This Saturday Kern County Sheriff is having a “Law EnFORCEment Day”/open house. In their press release, they ask if people have ever “driven by” the headquarters facility and wondered what goes on at your Sheriff’s Office?

    Wouldn’t it be fitting if a whole city decided to “drive by” on Saturday………

  • Steve Pert

    t. says:
    May 12, 2013 at 1:18 pm
    You guys are gonna flip out when the acquittals in the Kelly Thomas case come out.

    BTW, how does the sound of a baton strike to the head sound different than a baton strike anywhere else?

    I sincerely hope you find the answer to your question one day….from the public’s view.

  • t.

    Ariel: Now you go to just eventing things.

  • slappy

    People are making the claim that the police have ‘stolen’ the video of what supposedly happened. I truly believe this idiot was drunk, fought the police and basically did it to himself. It seems like dumbfuck morons on this board would rather have drunks breaking into their homes, drug addicts shooting up their schools, and prostutes on every corner then to face the hardcore truth that some fucked up drunk basically killed himself.

  • defender

    Jason, I no longer have an active NCIC user/pass I resigned from my dept several years ago. Someone within the Kern Dept. contacted me with the info and asked that I post it. I know that when an officer is involved in actions which cause death, or a shooting they are required to go on admin leave until investigation is complete. The only reason this hasn’t happened here is the amount of overtime needed to cover 9 patrolmen’s areas. They don’t have the man power to cover the area, nor the will to pay the overtime. Nothing else. I did it because this is a tool to hold those responsible accountable for their actions. I couldn’t care less what Ariel, and the rest think about this. It tends to even things up and these guys are only fearless when they have silence and cover to hide behind. I am proud of the individual that did this. Pax aut bellum, MOLON LABE!

  • defender

    Ariel, lol you mad bro? I consulted Oath Keepers prior to posting, so dig your thong out and quit whining. Sounds like you have a guilt complex. Go cry somewhere else. The people are tired of this nonsense and apparently so have some members of the dept. Commendable I say. – Defender

  • Common Sense

    Ha ha ha, clown-activists on parade…

    Hey t. Did you see those in Keene are being sued for their antics? This should be worth a lot of laughs. I can hardly wait.

  • Keith

    Hey slappy, you fucking pussy little bitch. No one wants someone to break into their home you idiot. The man was PASSED OUT IN THE STREET. Instead of calling an ambulance, 1 cop called for backup and 7 patrols and 2 CHP responded. That means 10 officers and a canine. They beat this man to death for god sakes and all you can say is he’s an idiot and it his fault. This is exactly why people dislike cops. You are an inbred fucker whose mom and sister are probably the same person. People like you, and cops like this, are why I carry a concealed item.
    P.S. The word “fagot” that you keep using, other than being a self hatred issue, it has 2 g’s you fucking cock sucker.

  • defender

    don’t waste time barking at the ignorant,rather go tell everyone you know about this, ask they do likewise, post it all over. I never once trained to beat another unconscious and dead especially 8 on 1. This is total BS and stinks like shit!

  • slappy

    Keith You dumbfuck the guy began fighting with the officer. The guy was massivly drunk. Where is this alledged video? Activists always say if it didn’t get caught on it never happened. You obviously know the word faggot you puke.

  • Pigsticker

    Recall the Israeli slaughter in Gaza, “cast lead”? Judge Goldstone, working under the auspices of the U.N. called Israel a terrorist nation after reviewing evidence submitted.

    Are you aware that the terrorist nation of occupied Palestine holds title to such an enormous portion of “our” lawmakers they were given the green light to “training” the traitors-in-Blue on how to “handle” “extremists”, domestic “terrorist” and anti semite groups. Lok at the enormous increase in cop-crimes since then;

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/09/27/press-tv-tragedy-of-us-police-training-by-israeli-companies/

    Has anyone noticed the frightening similarities between the Israeli-run DHS and the events leading up to the Bolshevik’s take over of Russia which lead to the murder of +/- 50,000,000 Russian Christian/Muslims and 7,000,000 Ukrainians?

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-Solzhenitsyn-200-Years-Together-18.html

    As we speak, DHS is slowly “morphing” their orginial charter of “protecting” us from foreign acts of “terror” to include “extremists”, domestic “terrorists” and anti-semites.

    Notice the terms thrown about by “sis” as she grovels to maintain favor;

    http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=816

    As Holmes would say, “the game’s afoot”.

  • Unjustified

    People keep saying he was “fighting” with the officers. What a catchy phrase that LE love to use. Where’s the evidence of him “fighting” besides the words of the officers? Amazes me how idiots can twist someone attempting to protect themselves from getting beat to death with “fighting”. Honestly, I hope that those of you that continually justify what happens to people like David Sal Silva meet the same fate….beat to death. Why don’t some of you research San Diego police Officer Thomas Riggs & Officer Donovon Jacobs. It’s a beautiful story.

  • Common Sense

    The cellphones have apparently been returned.

    The video, the one aired, can best be described as watching a movie through an ice cube.

  • Matt

    Haven’t found any video yet from the returned phones. Hopefully it will be clearer than the video released a day ago.

  • http://copblock David Swan

    9 on 1. Sounds about right for CA cops. Bunch of pussies.

  • http://copblock David Swan

    Unjustified, what a great story that is about Sagon Penn. Those were the good days in here in San Diego. We got a glimer of hope just a couple months ago with Christopher “The Man” Dorner. When Dorner was running around this place was a ghost town when it came to cops. They hide like little girls for weeks. Amazing.

  • YankeeFan

    Found this link on Carlos Miller’s site. Just an update if you will.
    Seems the Sheriff is really concerned about this as this incident has drawn a lot of attention and not the good kind.

    http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2013/05/15/fbi-investigating-california-deputies-for-possibly-deleting-footage-of-beating-death-from-confiscated-phones/

  • YankeeFan

    Plus this little snipet from the above link:

    Kern County Sheriff Donny Youngblood said he asked the FBI to get involved after learning that one of two phones seized from witnesses had no footage on it.

    Hmmmmm the possibility the police deleted video from one of the phones, say it isn’t so because the police never lie, cover up, fabricate or destroy evidence. Pardon my sarcasm but this, as of right now, does not look good for the police. In the end they may be exonerated and really didn’t do anything bad but as dear old dad always said:

    “If it looks like dog shit, and smells like dog shit, you can’t convince me it’s a slice of pumpkin pie”

  • Unjustified

    to David Swan:
    Isn’t amazing how may wallets and drivers licenses one man can have. Once again, the only information by the media flooded to the gullible public was that directed by LE.

  • Unjustified

    Now let’s see what spin all you LE supporters will put on this incident that happened.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VS6PnVMdViQ

  • Common Sense

    Awesome video, the scream at 1:30 will be the clip used in horror movies for decades.

    Loved it.

    ..oh, and it was legal under exigent circumstance expection to the 4th.

  • slappy

    Hey yankitfan. Again you post a fucking link to a fucking activist site. Those sites are complete bullshit. Where is this alledged video? Again you assholes jump on the bandwagon without seeing any evidence.

  • defender

    Sgt. Doug and his wife Mary Sword live on 2120 Jason Street Bakersfield CA. Informant could not locate an active phone from dept. lists without exposure, and will try again later.

  • Matt
  • Unjustified

    Come on… we all know they would never tamper with or destroy evidence. That would be unethical. Damn, I almost forgot… that is part of their code of ethics.

  • BJ

    Hey t. and Common Sense, since you guys claim to know more about the criminal justice system, I have a simple A or B question. Would officers face harsher penalties if convicted of:

    A: Evidence tampering charges

    or

    B: Second degree murder and/or manslaughter charges

  • Matt

    BJ: If already convicted of A., a conviction on B. would be much easier.

  • Common Sense

    Far more to it than that. Depends on sentence guidlines, how they score out, if sentence runs concurrent or conseq, depends the state and specific wording of statute, circumstances of case etc.

    Sorry, the media fired it’s wade on this, its over until the tox/ME report. They’ll be onto the next headline grabber.

    On another note, since those who now possess the original footage have it back, wonder how much money they’ll get for it.

  • Jason M. Winters

    This is why it’s so important to passcode-protect your phone.

  • Unjustified

    to Common Sense:

    “… its over until the tox/ME report.”

    In Kern County, the Sheriff is elected to serve as the Sheriff-Coroner-Public Administrator.

    So, what kind of report are we realistically expecting to receive?

    Sheriff’s spokesman Ray Pruitt said a KMC security officer called deputies at about 11:55 p.m. Tuesday to report that there was a man in the area who was possibly intoxicated.

    For all I know, he was suffering from a diabetic seizure.

    Still, when did “possibly intoxicated” become a reason to beat a man to death?

  • YankeeFan

    That’s funny because according to their boss, The Sheriff, he is saying this isn’t as simple as it sounds. So, no it’s not over as you want to claim but this is not going to be the next Rodney King.

  • Wmills

    Requiring a graduate level degree for ALL POLICE OFFICERS would weed out any malefactors who want to be police officers because of the investment of both time and money required. Society asks that doctors, teachers, lawyers, etc. all have higher level degrees but we don’t require that of someone who can take away our freedom? It only makes sense that they be required to have a PROFESSIONAL degree that includes liberal arts, multiculturalism, advanced level reading and writing skills, and critical and analytical thinking.

  • BJ

    @ Common Sense

    So you’re saying it’s possible a person could be punished more harshly for evidence tampering than manslaughter or second degree murder?

  • Common Sense

    I doubt murder, but some manslaughter charges are 4 years and some evidence tampering are equal felonies. Some, like perjury, can be life felonies. As said, it varies state to state, case to case. A great deal of latitude exists in some sentence guideline structures.

    And no, a graduate degree would bring about a challenge from the ACLU. Some PDs require higher degrees or military, some don’t. Unless you want federal standards of some type enacted, but would that lead to a ‘federal police’ force?

  • Jason

    Defender, Anonymous also independently got the same address for Sgt. Sword. They think his phone number is (661) 392-7252.

    A NCIC record would likely be more accurate though.

  • Ariel

    t.,

    If you’re drawing from my 04:26 for this: “Ariel: Now you go to just eventing things.” Which means what in English?

    Defender(of lynching):”Ariel, lol you mad bro? I consulted Oath Keepers prior to posting, so dig your thong out and quit whining. Sounds like you have a guilt complex. Go cry somewhere else. The people are tired of this nonsense and apparently so have some members of the dept. Commendable I say. – Defender”

    So you’re claiming the Oath Keepers gave you permission for a lynching including his wife? LOL, because if that is what the Oath Keepers are they’re so very irrelevant to the very ideals they claim.

    “The people are tired of this nonsense” is just a variation of lynching in the South and the North. You did the Internet equivalent. As for “thong”, you totally ignorant nimrod, “Ariel” is a unisex name (I know, I know, Disney is your source, you were raised on Disney). As for thong, pull your sister’s “thong” off your head (got the reference or are you that uneducated?), get out of your mother’s basement, and realize what you did.

    I wasn’t crying, but a totally pussy (and what you did was total pussy, if anything happens to him or her, you’ll just go “it wasn’t me, it was them, it wasn’t me”) like you wouldn’t know the difference between crying and decrying.

    BTW, one man can make a difference. I’ll keep going to the Oath Keepers, join the forum if need be, quote you over and over again, and when I get that they’re “rule of man” pussies like you, I’ll spread it across both conservative and liberal blogs. Keep that thong on your head for solace.

  • Anonymous

    Defender : We see that you have vital information on the officers who are involved in David Sal Silva’s beating and death.
    We are asking that you kindly respond possibly by email with all the Info you may have on these officers. We run a facebook page with an audience of over 17 Million worldwide > https://www.facebook.com/pages/Anonymous/450296804989549?ref=hl

    A DOX On Sheriff Youngblood was released > http://t.co/XEcjgTTPr3 before he placed his officers on paid leave in fear of their safety.
    and a request to the FBI to pick up on the investigation.
    We would like to put together all of the officers information and release it to the general public.
    Thank you

    you can send info to [email protected]

  • Ariel

    Yeah, Matt,

    This says something:”The “crazies” killed an unarmed man last week. The “system” will protect them. The “crazies” hide behind their badges and use them to do whatever the hell they please.” So you go into the same world t. does, special pleading. So the only the crazies in your world are the cops? No others?

    Including the wife’s name, neglecting address and personal phone number, was what exactly? Visiting the sins of one on another? Claiming a wife, or husband, is responsible for the actions of their spouse? Defender was making sure that she would suffer, and that sits well with you? If he had identified children, would that have sat well with you too? Be careful what you embrace without thinking it through. Think from the very issue of police make mistakes, innocents are accused and convicted by mistake of police, prosecutor, and judge, but on this site you’re willing to be those people, and make their mistakes, you deplore?

    What Defender did was the modern Internet equivalent to inciting a lynching. I can’t embrace that, and can’t fully express my disgust no matter how profane I get. I can express how he is no different than the very people he attacks. Well, except for the wife.

    Matt, I’ll leave you with this to think about: “it isn’t what you think, it’s how you think”; and “it isn’t the beliefs you hold, it’s how you hold those beliefs”. Another aphorism is that two sides of one coin is just the same coin. I’ll explain if you need to ask.

  • From California

    I live only 2 miles from where Mr. Kelly was “CRIMINALLY BEAT TO DEATH”. Because Mr. Kelly was white the rest of the races will let these cops slide on being just a bike tragedy. However, just like Mr. King who was not beat to death there will be riots in the streets once the truth is out.

    FYI: This is a low resolution video tape that the cops did not get that is now (Supposedly) in the hands of family members. And people getting pissed from what is coming out.

    What bothers me is the lack of concern that the rest of America has when it starts being a regular everyday encounter with the police that they crack skulls if you don’t bow dow and kiss there “Jack Boots”!

    My heart goes out to Mr. Silva’s 4 children and extended family for he did nothing to deserve being “Rodney Beat” maybe tased or bitten by the police dog but, “Beat to the Head – 19 times !”.

    One last thing, all you “lets wait and see what really happen”. I just told you – FUCK YOU

  • Unjustified

    So… here’s an email I sent Sheriff Youngblood.

    Sheriff Youngblood,

    I have an idea. After reading your statements noted below, let’s evaluate the effects of repeated baton strikes on those that were involved in the beating. Seeing as there were multiple people involved in the incident, the only accurate test would be to test the effects on each one of them individually. You would be sending a powerful message to the public. I have no doubt that you will be able to find enough citizens willing to administer the test.

    “Baton strikes were used, but what I don’t know is how many and where they were on the body and if they caused significant injury that caused death,” he said.

    Youngblood said the baton is a less lethal weapon and because of that its use doesn’t usually lead to deputies being placed on leave. But he said the head is not an appropriate place for a baton strike.

    “Sometimes in the heat of battle, the baton doesn’t go where you want it to go…. If someone has 20 baton strikes to the head, OK, that is easy for us. But when there is a fight or scuffle and a baton strike goes where it should not … then you have to evaluate,” he explained.

    Please understand one thing, the suggestion noted above is not in any way meant as retaliation or to incite violence. It is intended solely for educational purposes. I don’t want you twisting my suggestion out of context.

  • RadicalDude

    Ariel: I think you are making out what Anon and Defender are up to into something more than it is. Where did he say the wife of the cop was responsible and how is Defender making her suffer? She decided to marry a gang member/leader, and he decided on the violent gang life-style, they are responsible for their own decisions.

  • Ariel

    RD,

    “Ariel: I think you are making out what Anon and Defender are up to into something more than it is. Where did he say the wife of the cop was responsible and how is Defender making her suffer? She decided to marry a gang member/leader, and he decided on the violent gang life-style, they are responsible for their own decisions.”

    I wouldn’t publish the name of the wife of an HA, a Pagan (they are bad dudes), a Vagos, a Bandido, a Crip, or a Blood. I wouldn’t assume anything about them or their children. I also wouldn’t publish the spouse’s name of a serial killer, a serial rapist, a serial burglar, or any other.

    I am sickened when human beings think that association is taint or proof of guilt. They’re are part of the sickness

    Your characterization of marrying a LEO as marrying a gang member is part of the problem of this site too often, no level-headed perspective, just BS rhetoric (that applies to the cops that post here also, extreme drawing the extreme). You have no idea when she married him, no idea of him as husband before and father now, and no idea of whether this was anomalous behavior or not by him. You’re doing the same thing slappy does over and over again. It’s the same thinking. What because the subject is different it suddenly isn’t the same?

    “is their phone number, hell stop by to chat about this killing sometime. I’m sure they would welcome the visit.” Really, Matt, what do think the intention of that is?

    Now, since Defender was so righteous, and you Matt are in so much agreement, publish your own personal info here so people can call the two of you, or stop by, and tell you how righteous you are. You have nothing to fear, you aren’t gang members, and you are righteous. By others assessment, your wives, children or partners may not be as righteous as you…but so what?

    I doubt you live in the same jurisdiction as Kern, but if you do when those Kern cops go after you you can get a protection order. Think about, no Kern County Sheriff could even come within 500 feet of you, wouldn’t that be a plus?

  • Ariel

    Another way to look at this:”She decided to marry a gang member/leader, and he decided on the violent gang life-style, they are responsible for their own decisions.”, is that it’s just sophistry. Sophistry is subtly deceptive reasoning, though I like facile added in to the definition to give the true worth of the argument.

    I’ve just gone through a long and tedious argument with t. with his special pleading and sophistry, where facile applies in both, and with him declaring “winner” like Charlie Sheen.

    I’m not going to give you that benefit. What I quoted from you is just specious, facile moralizing bullshit without any moral compass.

  • Ariel

    Sorry, Radical Dude, I threw Matt in when you should have gotten all the acclaim for that argument. You made the taint by association argument and you deserve all the credit.

    Matt, sorry, you shouldn’t have gotten the opprobrium for RD’s argument. Only for your embracing the modern form of lynching, for which you deserve all the credit.

    Sometimes it’s just hard to keep the players straight when they aren’t different enough to do so.

  • RadicalDude

    Ariel says:
    May 16, 2013 at 3:16 am

    RD,
    Your characterization of marrying a LEO as marrying a gang member is part of the problem of this site too often, no level-headed perspective, just BS rhetoric (that applies to the cops that post here also, extreme drawing the extreme).

    ^^^So are you saying she is not responsible for being married to him? Who’s responsibility is it whom she decides to marry, if not her own?
    Or are you saying she didn’t marry him? What specifically is the “BS rhetoric”?

    You’re doing the same thing slappy does over and over again. It’s the same thinking.

    ^^^Sorry, this is kind of vague. What do you mean “it’s the same thinking”? And what have I done that slappy has done, specifically what are you referring to?

    What because the subject is different it suddenly isn’t the same?

    ^^^What are you talking about? What specifically are you referring to when you say “it”?

  • RadicalDude

    Ariel says:
    May 16, 2013 at 3:34 am

    Another way to look at this:”She decided to marry a gang member/leader, and he decided on the violent gang life-style, they are responsible for their own decisions.”, is that it’s just sophistry. Sophistry is subtly deceptive reasoning, though I like facile added in to the definition to give the true worth of the argument.

    ^^^soph·is·try (sf-str)
    n. pl. soph·is·tries
    1. Plausible but fallacious argumentation.
    2. A plausible but misleading or fallacious argument.

    So, since you are in essence claiming that something I said was fallacious and deceptive, then I challenge you to specifically state the “fallacy”. You have claimed something I said was fallacious, yet you have failed to articulate any fallacy with specificity. And specifically what is deceptive and how so? If you cannot specifically articulate a fallacy or deception, then I’ll take it you acquiesce you have nothing to back your claim, and it is factually baseless.

    What I quoted from you is just specious, facile moralizing bullshit without any moral compass.

    ^^vox nihili, you state no facts in this sentence, you just say it’s “specious” which basically means you are telling me I’m wrong yet you present no tangible counter-argument. The point I was trying to make is that Defender is not making the wife “suffer” by publishing her info, he is just publishing info. You claim people are calling to have them attacked,lynched, etc, is that true, or is it something you made up?
    If it is true, then can you quote where someone said such a thing?
    If not, I take it you acquiesce that your claim is a baseless fiction.
    She decided to be married to a violent gang member/ public figure. The negative attention is due to the gang violence, not due to Defender.
    The cop brought this negative attention on himself. She chose to be married to a violent gang member so she is along for the ride. No, I do not blame the wife for the violence, I never said she was guilty by association. I feel sorry for her kind of, really.

  • RadicalDude

    I never made any taint by association argument, another of your fictions.

  • Ariel

    Hi, RD,

    Do cops exhibit some gang behavior, yes, do cops exhibit all gang behavior, no. Do some PDs exhibit gang behavior, yes, do all? And in fact they don’t exhibit enough to call them a gang in your sense. If you can’t make the distinction, lets go into how the Bloods act, the Mongols (I forgot that they are really the worst BG of BC), or MS-13. The Bloods are pacifists compared to MS-13.

    I’m saying that your making her guilty because of his actions is wrong. I am also saying that your “she married him” is wrong-headed because it really is “guilt by association” and based on your dubious definition that “cops are gangs” and your further claims from that dubious definition.

    “no level-headed perspective” leads to BS rhetoric. I wrote that in one sentence. The commas should not have confused you.

    Slappy uses “activist” like you use “cop”. Both fall into Sidney Hook’s term “epithet of abuse”. I can’t help that you did, I can only see that you did. And from what you did, you arrive at the wife is to blame too. If his children know he’s a cop, and as teenagers accept he’s a cop without demanding emancipation, are they to blame too? They didn’t choose to leave knowing full well “cops are criminals” and murders too, by your very argument and definitions. Shouldn’t they be punished too?

    Either you solely blame the individual for his crime, or you can’t blame me if I kill your family for your crime. If your tribe knew what you are, well then…. Individual, family, tribe.

  • courtofpublicopinion

    it seems that batons were to tiring for the officers now they just run over you with their car, and for anyone thinking about a florida vacation remember your seatbelt it is now a death penality offense http://www.clickorlando.com/news/man-fleeing-police-run-over-killed-by-deland-officer-officials-say/-/1637132/20059522/-/9awluz/-/index.html

  • Ariel

    RD,

    First of all, I want to thank you for your replies. I consider this intellectual Fun, as argumentive challenges are just that. If you go back to your initial arguments like I’ve written nothing, it becomes tedious because of the circularity.

    Starting here: “I never made any taint by association argument, another of your fictions.” Yep, this isn’t that “She decided to marry a gang member/leader” wrapped up in a big bow of assumption (5th definition M-W, but the way we so often use it in conversation). No taint there, no sirree, because you said so.

    I use Merriam-Webster which is why I used “subtly deceptive reasoning”. Your definitions lack that “subtle” quality, but you know yourself better than I know you. I’ll use yours, but retain the right to use the dictionary I prefer.

    “So, since you are in essence claiming that something I said was fallacious and deceptive, then I challenge you to specifically state the “fallacy”.” Okay, here’s the fallacy from “She decided to marry a gang member/leader, and he decided on the violent gang life-style, they are responsible for their own decisions.” False equivalence for one. Argument from ignorance for two (think hard you’ll find it). False dichotomy (excluded middle) from “marry a gang member…violent gang life-style” (it doesn’t require both extremes being stated). I tried to find a fit for “half-truth” but couldn’t (that’s not something you should be proud of as I was working from “no truth”). So, the Fun is that the ball is now in your court. My definition never used fallacious just deceptive, the two are not the same, but thank you none the less. You may, and likely will, deny each fallacy. But please deny by proof, otherwise the denial is just swamp gas.

    Your definition #2 is actually close to the definition of specious. Specious: ” having a false look of truth or genuineness : sophistic”. Words are seemingly just tautologies, no word is defined without other words, and those other words eventually lead back to that first word. But it’s the nuance between that separates and makes meaning. Sophistic pops out again.

    “vox nihili, you state no facts in this sentence, you just say it’s “specious” which basically means you are telling me I’m wrong yet you present no tangible counter-argument. The point I was trying to make is that Defender is not making the wife “suffer” by publishing her info, he is just publishing info. You claim people are calling to have them attacked,lynched, etc, is that true, or is it something you made up?”

    Uohhh, Latin phrases send a tingle up my leg. Vox Nihili, voice of nothing (really simple eh? It’s the simple things in life you treasure…). “What I quoted from you is just specious, facile moralizing bullshit without any moral compass.” But that was a declarative, my summation of your statements by my values. If I have to show how specious, how facile, how moralizing, how much bullshit, and how lacking in a moral compass, Cop Block will have to shut down just for the cost of bandwidth.

    But you gave me an opportunity, if only because you couldn’t shut up (missed those ACLU videos did you?). “The point I was trying to make is that Defender is not making the wife “suffer” by publishing her info, he is just publishing info.” Shit, you could make that argument from photos, but not from his wife is named “x” followed by “XX is their phone number, hell stop by to chat about this killing sometime. I’m sure they would welcome the visit.” What is “they”? His second head, like Zaphod Beeblebrox? Defender was purposely and with full intent bringing the wife into this. If you can’t see that from those words, write “improbability drive”; if you embrace it write “I’m a Vogon” (no poetry please); if you understand how this is deplorable write “I’m a sperm whale”; if you can’t understand the meaning of any of it write “I’m a bowl of petunias” because, well, no one really understood what the petunias actually meant. If you’re completely unsure, you might contemplate what the metaphor of the “living puddle” means, if only because you serve us all better diverted elsewhere.

    Yeah, Defender never meant for the wife to “suffer”. Yep, “they” is a singular pronoun.

  • Ariel

    RD,

    “She chose to be married to a violent gang member so she is along for the ride. No, I do not blame the wife for the violence, I never said she was guilty by association. I feel sorry for her kind of, really.”

    Oh, but she’s along for the ride. If you don’t get “guilt by association” in your first sentence, I bet you think you did some real empathy and sympathy in those last sentences. Crocodile tears are not really anything other than a big bite of flesh.

  • RadicalDude

    @Ariel
    Factually, cops are all gang members, as a matter of fact. This is not my opinion, this is a pure statement of fact.

    Here is the definition of “Gang”:
    A gang is a group of recurrently associating individuals or close friends with identifiable leadership and internal organization, identifying with or claiming control over territory in a community, and engaging either individually or collectively in violent or other forms of illegal behavior.

    So, essentially these are the defining factual elements of a gang:
    1. Group of recurrently associating individuals.
    2. Identifiable leadership
    3. Identifiable internal orginization
    4. Claim dominion over some territory
    5. Engage in violence, either collectively or individually

    Now, you say cops don’t engage in all gang behavior? Specifically which of the factual elements are missing? Which of the 5 factual aspects of gang behavior are NOT directly observable characteristics of every single police department?

    I NEVER SAID the wife was guilty. I said she married a gang member, that is a pure statement of fact. I never said that made her guilty of anything, that is you reading into it something I never said.

    As to comparing them to street gangs yes they operate by a different MO, about as different as gangs differ from each other anyway. Does MS-13 operate by the same MO as John Dillinger? Or do the bloods operate the same as the bikers? Does the mafia run the same as the aryan nations?
    Did billy the kid have the same MO as the Cali cartel? Saying they have a different mo than the bloods and ms-13 and the mongols is beside the point, all types of gangs have different mos when you compare them.
    The main thing they share is they are violent organizations.

    And “cop” is not an “epithet”. Are you even a cop? If you are a cop, and it offends you, I will change the terminology. To me “cop” is a general fact based term that basically means an authoritarian gang member who has some sort of “code enforcement” m.o. So, for instance, I would call a sheriff a cop the same as a fed or a police or a jail guard, military police, etc. They are all authoritarian gang members. I don’t mean the term as a form of abuse, if anyone who was a cop told me it offended them, I would change the term for a more specific one.

  • RadicalDude

    Here is the fallacy of your position:
    You state that police are not gangs, yet the only distinction is POLITICAL, not factual. You are conflating your superstitious political beliefs with issues of fact. Saying a police department is a gang is a simple factual statement. The politics of the situation do not alter the underlying facts.

  • RadicalDude

    She is not “guilty” she is responsible for her decisions. Just like if a hero risks his life to rescue someone else. He is responsible for the consequences, although heroically risking his life doesn’t make someone “guilty”, they are still responsible for the risk they took, it’s not someone else’s fault what might happen to them. Okay, the point is you are conflating “blame” with “responsibility.” I’m not saying she is to blame for his actions, but neither is defender responsible for the situation she is in. I don’t advocate violence at all, you seem to imply I did somehow?

  • RadicalDude

    Ya, you are right, the wives should not appear on these “public outings” or whatever you want to call it. I still think you are making more out of it than what’s there. No one said to lynch them, did they?

  • Steve Pert

    @ YankeeFan, I read your need for intellectual challenge in your comments over and over. Why do you come here for intellectual debate? This site is for people to expose police brutality, false arrest and to hold police accountable for their actions. I can’t find anything anywhere in this sites description about debate. You and others watch and read stories like this one and want to pick it to pieces in favor of the killers. You have forgotten that a man meet a brutal death. It saddens me he died like that. My heart goes out to him and his family. Yet you turn it into a debate? He deserves justice just like you will one day. His family deserves to have him at their sides. He did not bring death upon himself.

    Apparently I have a unique perspective of police here. I grew up in a poor area and was anything but sheltered from the facts of how things work on the streets. I didn’t get myself into trouble and never put colors on my back. Of all the people on the streets the one’s I was the most scared of was the cops. At least when a “street thug” fucked with me I could fight back. My brothers could fight back. By brothers I mean my family. I can’t count the number of times my face has been slammed into the hood of a police cruiser. Over the years this kind of “police interactions” escalated because I would stay polite and smile while my head is being wiped across the hood of a cop car. You have been broken by authoritarian influences. They couldn’t break me then and they won’t break me now.

    This is not a place for debate. This is a place for people to shine a light on the things that happen everyday on the streets. Criminals should be behind bars no matter what colors they wear. Even blue.

    Perhaps you should seek out a Harvard Law blog to stretch your mentality. You do no good here.

    My prayers and thoughts are with you David Sal Silva.

  • Ariel

    RD,

    “Factually, cops are all gang members, as a matter of fact. This is not my opinion, this is a pure statement of fact.” And you went to Wiki for a tortured, but needed by you, definition while the Wiki page had this warning “This article has multiple issues”. Using it, or the simpler M-W “a group of persons working to unlawful or antisocial ends”, still doesn’t lead to “a pure statement of fact”. You’re confusing “truth” with facts.

    I know there is at least one MC that doesn’t meet those Wiki bullet points but would meet the M-W definition. Skipping all the crap, you left this out in your 5 points “in violent or other forms of illegal behavior”. That sentence means the violence has to be illegal and the other behavior has to be illegal (the or makes that certain). So..

    Your 5) is a misrepresentation of “in violent or…”. A really bad one easily refuted. Must I?

    Your 4) hinges on “claim”, but police don’t “claim” a territory, unless you think a city is a bigger gang. Maybe you do. Police are given a defined territory by a larger entity, called town or city, or county or state. That territory is exactly that territory of that larger entity. Police don’t “claim” a territory, but gangs most certainly do

    Without 4) and 5), 1,2,and 3 could be the Girl Scouts. I do admit they frighten me, have you ever had 5 Girl Scouts ring you demanding you buy cookies and threatening to kick your shins if you don’t? I feared for my life (that was actually a slam on cops, who would likely taser such frightening 10 year-olds if only to make it home for dinner, I just told ‘em no).

    Your “pure statement of fact” is denatured. Don’t drink it, it’s poisoned.

  • Steve Pert

    The above statement was intended for Arial. My apologies to YankeeFan.

  • Steve Pert

    @ Arial, I read your need for intellectual challenge in your comments over and over. Why do you come here for intellectual debate? This site is for people to expose police brutality, false arrest and to hold police accountable for their actions. I can’t find anything anywhere in this sites description about debate. You and others watch and read stories like this one and want to pick it to pieces in favor of the killers. You have forgotten that a man meet a brutal death. It saddens me he died like that. My heart goes out to him and his family. Yet you turn it into a debate? He deserves justice just like you will one day. His family deserves to have him at their sides. He did not bring death upon himself.

    Apparently I have a unique perspective of police here. I grew up in a poor area and was anything but sheltered from the facts of how things work on the streets. I didn’t get myself into trouble and never put colors on my back. Of all the people on the streets the one’s I was the most scared of was the cops. At least when a “street thug” fucked with me I could fight back. My brothers could fight back. By brothers I mean my family. I can’t count the number of times my face has been slammed into the hood of a police cruiser. Over the years this kind of “police interactions” escalated because I would stay polite and smile while my head is being wiped across the hood of a cop car. You have been broken by authoritarian influences. They couldn’t break me then and they won’t break me now.

    This is not a place for debate. This is a place for people to shine a light on the things that happen everyday on the streets. Criminals should be behind bars no matter what colors they wear. Even blue.

    Perhaps you should seek out a Harvard Law blog to stretch your mentality. You do no good here.

    My prayers and thoughts are with you David Sal Silva.

  • RadicalDude

    If you think 9 guys with clubs and guns beating 1 guy is not “gang violence” then that is just indicative of a superstitious belief system, because you are basically implying that the actual facts of the situation change relative to the political affiliations of the gang in question. But facts are facts, they do not change relative to your political status.

  • RadicalDude

    Yes, cop violence is illegal and anti- social.

    Also from wiki:
    Anti-social behaviour is behaviour that lacks consideration for others and may cause damage to the society, whether intentionally or through negligence.

    9 guys killing 1 guy in a brutal gang beating is not anti social behavior?

    Cops do not claim a territory? Name me 1 police/sheriff/etc department whose name does not begin with a geographic area that they claim as a territorial jurisdiction? Really, so the KERN COUNTY sherriff doesn’t claim a territory?

  • Steve Pert

    @ RadicalDude, You are arguing with someone that has no empathy or sympathy for a human life. Ariel has been brainwashed to believe authoritative figures are always right. This case is a downright murder. You or I would be in jail right now if we had taken part in it.

  • RadicalDude

    @Steve:
    I know this whole thing is outrageous and upsetting to you, as it is to me. The same superstitious authoritarian beliefs which are so prevalent in society are what enable these authoritarian gangs to act as they do. If 51% of the population simply said “no” to these gangs, they would not have nearly as much potential to do damage.

  • RadicalDude

    Thanks for the good work you are doing, BTW

  • Ariel

    RD,
    “I NEVER SAID the wife was guilty. I said she married a gang member, that is a pure statement of fact. I never said that made her guilty of anything, that is you reading into it something I never said.” Never said you did; she married a gang member is not a pure statement of fact (addressed that earlier); you never said that made her guilty and neither did Defender; but here comes the butt-monkey…

    Both you and Defender implied she deserves what she gets, he by the “they” and you by the “she married a gang member”. That’s what you and he are doing. Disclaimers are just disingenuous. If you, RD, really want to say she is guilty of nothing, then say so unequivocally, no qualifications, no “she married a gang member”, no nothing other than she should not in any way suffer what her husband did by your mouth or any others. She will of course suffer if her husband is found guilty of whatever, but let that happen when it does. Don’t be part of a lynch mob, they hang the wrong people. She is the wrong “people”.

    Me, I’ve had this image in my head all this time of a black soldier in AEF uniform swinging from a tree circa 1920-21. He wasn’t guilty of anything either.

  • Steve Pert

    @ Ariel, You should have the image of David Sal Silva in your head. Live in the here and now. Fight for changes that protect us from the protectors. You so easily debate away a man’s life. No matter how many big words you use, you come across as uneducated in the reality we live in. Must be nice in your posh neighborhood.

    My prayers and thoughts are with you David Sal Silva.

  • Steve Pert

    @ RadicalDude, Your welcome

  • RadicalDude

    I don’t know what she may or may not be guilty of, I don’t think the lynch mob is really that serious of a threat, cops are well protected and people are scared to mess w/ them. Maybe she gets some belligerent phone calls, I agree leave the wives out of these things.

  • Steve Pert

    @ Ariel, Here’s a statement for you. Take your educated, debate loving ass out on the streets and ask anyone in a poorer area of town who is the biggest gang. You will hear the same thing no matter where you are, the police. There’s no facts backing that up except for real life experience. Something you obviously lack. You seem to call out from a high perch about things that happen so far below you. You weren’t around in 1920 and your not out there now. The police are indeed seen as a gang on the streets and you will NEVER be able to debate that away. Go fuck yourself you pompous asshole. I’m not here to debate with lost souls like yourself.

  • RadicalDude

    There is an attribute of authoritarianism that George Orwell kind of illustrates in 1984, the need for fictions. Double speak, and double think are examples of this. These fictions actually are a necessary component of authoritarian superstitions. And this need to define words so you change the actual meaning to mean something else other than what the word actually means. So 9 guys beating up 1 guy is not gang violence to a superstitious authoritarian when the 9 guys have a perceived “authority” or “jurisdiction”(superstitious political beliefs). They know 9 guys attacking 1 guy is gang violence, yet they must maintain the double-think that in this instance it’s not not gang violence. Their brain on some level registers the cognitive dissonance, and that is why you see the irrational personal attacks when you challenge the contradiction between their delusions and the facts. It is a brain malfunction caused by the cognitive dissonance of holding two conflicting ideas, the factual perception, and the superstitious delusion.

  • defender

    it appears that many of you are lost on some key issues here. This was a wrongful death , that is a fact. Mr. Silva had a reasonable expectation to survive his evening, he did not after having an encounter with revenue agents. Much of what is done is done so by our own consent. The problem lies in that for most, they do not know how , or when nor the mechanism by which consent was granted to be regulated/taxed/penalized. This is the crux of the matter here folks. If we examine cases like Sapp v. Tallhassee among others we will find that the police are not there to protect anyone absent agreement/contract. They are there to protect the corporation and arrest code breakers. Codes are regulations which are enforced by agreement/consent. It turns on commerce, that is a fact. The wrongful death claim will turn on commerce as well as the penal code. There is no expressed, or implied immunity for officers/agents when violating a right lawfully held. When acting even under color of authority/law one cannot act ultra vires, or vi et armis, that is beyond the scope of one’s office, or by force of arms to get consent that would normally be granted freely without duress. If an officer does so then they no longer represent government and become liable. See 70 AM JUR 2.d Vll sec 50 civil liability. Again this death appears to be a moral issue, but at law it functions as an interruption of commerce. All crime is commercial, see the Code of Federal “Regulations” 27 CFR 72.11. As for Ariel, I couldn’t care less what his thoughts are on the subject, for he is lost in a world that does not apply to reality in the law. The deputies wives are not a seperate entity, they are married and the state sees it the same way. Were it not so why would one need a license/permission to be regulated by a third party called “this state” to wed? Again regulation thru a 501 (c) 3 non-profit church being the mechanism for this regulation. I realize this info will not set well with you all, but to deny the reality of it changes nothing. You apply/beg for licenses, DL, Marriage,Hunting,Fishing,SSNs, et.al.and the legal maxim is the beggar knows what he begs for, so until we recognize the reality no change will ensue. Our power does not lie in political will, this has been lost for many years, rather our real power lies in commerce. We decide to do business or not with these entities, this is the answer. So contact the Kern Chamber of COMMERCE and tell them you are starting a boycott of all businesses in Kern and those who conduct business with the same until the officers are held to account.Pax aut bellum, MOLON LABE!- Defender

  • Ariel

    Steve Pert,

    That image serves for me for all that suffer injustice, at the hands of government or the people. For all time, and all times.

    Posh neighborhood? Does “pulled that out of your ass” make a point to you? What you think “big words” come from privilege, not a kid raised poor? I was raised in poor and bad neighborhoods. The very mention of my JHS and HS in California brings silence. I had two pair of pants for a school year. I lived your effing reality everyday of my entire childhood. I’ve never forgotten it and never will. I identify with the poor because that is where I came from and can never leave. I was born of a 16 year old mother and an 18 year old father in a poor farming community. But raised by neither.

    And at 15 I had to go to the other side of my family because the woman that raised me died, and I watched her die and could do nothing. I know the time, the day, the year, and the page of the book she was reading when she died.

    I was raised by two people who had an 8th Grade education and a 3rd Grade between them. They pushed me to learn. They bought me books and took me to the library whenever they could. It was they who gave me my vocabulary, and every day I use it I pay homage to them. Not to me and not to impress you.

    I paid for my BSChe through military service, loans, and work.

    Screw your classist prejudice.

  • defender

    HERE ARE FACTS MOST DON’T KNOW, BUT SHOULD…

    1. The IRS is not a US government agency. It is an agency of the IMF (International Monetary Fund) (Diversified Metal Products v I.R.S et al.
    CV-93-405E-EJE U.S.D.C.D.I., Public Law 94-564, Senate report 94-1148 pg. 5967, Reorganization Plan No. 26, Public Law 102-391)

    2. The IMF (International Monetary Fund) is an agency of the U.N. (Black’s Law Dictionary 6th Ed. page 816)

    3. The United States has NOT had a Treasury since 1921 (41 Stat. Ch 214 page 654)

    4. The U.S. Treasury is now the IMF (International Monetary Fund) (Presidential Documents Volume 24-No. 4 page 113, 22 U.S.C. 285-2887)

    5. The United States does not have any employees because there is no longer a United States! No more reorganizations. After over 200 years of bankruptcy it is finally over. (Executive Order 12803)

    6. The FCC, CIA, FBI, NASA and all of the other alphabet gangs were never part of the U.S. government, even though the “U.S. Government” held stock in the agencies. (U.S. v Strang, 254 US491 Lewis v. US, 680 F.2nd, 1239)

    7. Social Security Numbers are issued by the U.N. through the IMF (International Monetary Fund). The application for a Social Security Number is the SS5 Form. The Department of the Treasury (IMF) issues the SS5 forms and not the Social Security Administration. The new SS5 forms do not state who publishes them while the old form states they are “Department of the Treasury”. (20 CFR (Council on
    Foreign Relations) Chap. 111 Subpart B. 422.103 (b))

    8. There are NO Judicial courts in America and have not been since 1789. Judges do not enforce Statutes and Codes. Executive Administrators enforce Statutes and Codes. (FRC v. GE 281 US 464 Keller v. PE 261 US 428, 1 Stat 138-178)

    9. There have NOT been any judges in America since 1789. There have just been administrators. (FRC v. GE 281 US 464 Keller v. PE 261 US 428 1 Stat. 138-178)

    10. According to GATT (The General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade) you MUST have a Social Security number. (House Report (103-826)

    11. New York City is defined in Federal Regulations as the United Nations. Rudolph Guiliani stated on C-Span that “New York City is the capital of the
    World.” For once, he told the truth. (20 CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) Chap. 111, subpart B 44.103 (b) (2) (2) )

    12. Social Security is not insurance or a contract, nor is there a Trust Fund. (Helvering v. Davis 301 US 619 Steward Co. v. Davis 301 US 548)

    13. Your Social Security check comes directly from the IMF (International Monetary Fund), which is an agency of the United Nations. (It says “U.S.
    Department of Treasury” at the top left corner, which again is part of the U.N. as pointed out above)

    14. You own NO property. Slaves can’t own property. Read carefully the Deed to the property you think is yours. You are listed as a TENANT. (Senate Document 43, 73rd Congress 1st Session)

    15. The most powerful court in America is NOT the United States Supreme court, but the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. (42 PA. C.S.A. 502)

    16. The King of England financially backed both sides of the American Revolutionary War. (Treaty of Versailles-July 16, 1782 Treaty of Peace 8 Stat 80)

    17. You CANNOT use the U.S. Constitution to defend yourself because you are NOT a party to it! The U.S. Constitution applies to the CORPORATION OF THE UNITED STATES, a privately owned and operated corporation (headquartered out of Washington, DC) much like IBM (International Business Machines, Microsoft, et al) and NOT to the people of the sovereign Republic of the united States of America. (Padelford Fay & Co. v The Mayor and Alderman of the City of Savannah 14 Georgia 438, 520)

    18. America is a British Colony. The United States is a corporation, not a land mass and it existed before the Revolutionary War and the British Troops did not leave until 1796 (Republica v. Sweers 1 Dallas 43, Treaty of Commerce 8 Stat 116, Treaty of Peace 8 Stat 80, IRS Publication 6209, Articles of Association October 20, 1774)

    19. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVsMUpPgdT0

    20. Britain is owned by the Vatican. (Treaty of 1213)

    21. The Pope can abolish any law in the United States (Elements of Ecclesiastical Law Vol. 1, 53-54)

    22. A 1040 Form is for tribute paid to Britain (IRS Publication 6209)

    23. The Pope claims to own the entire planet through the laws of conquest and discovery. (Papal Bulls of 1495 & 1493)

    24. The Pope has ordered the genocide and enslavement of millions of people.(Papal Bulls of 1455 & 1493)

    25. The Pope’s laws are obligatory on everyone. (Bened. XIV., De Syn. Dioec, lib, ix, c. vii, n. 4. Prati, 1844 Syllabus Prop 28, 29, 44)

    26. We are slaves and own absolutely nothing, NOT even what we think are our children. (Tillman vs. Roberts 108 So. 62, Van Koten vs. Van Koten 154 N.E. 146, Senate Document 438 73rd Congress 1st Session, Wynehammer v. People 13 N.Y. REP 378, 481)

    27. Military dictator George Washington divided up the States (Estates) in to Districts (Messages and papers of the Presidents Volume 1 page 99 1828 Dictionary of Estate)

    28. “The People” does NOT include you and me. (Barron vs. Mayor and City Council of Baltimore 32 U.S. 243)

    29. It is NOT the duty of the police to protect you. Their job is to protect THE CORPORATION and arrest code breakers. (SAPP vs. Tallahassee, 348 So. 2nd. 363, REiff vs. City of Phila. 477 F. 1262, Lynch vs. NC Dept. of Justice 376 S.E. 2nd. 247)

    30. Every thing in the “United States” is up for sale: bridges, roads, water, schools, hospitals, prisons, airports, etc, etc… Did anybody take time to check who bought Klamath Lake?? (Executive Order 12803)

    31. “We are human capital” (Executive Order 13037) The world cabal makes money off of the use of your signatures on mortgages, car loans, credit cards, your social security number, etc.

    32. The U.N. – United Nations – has financed the operations of the United States government (the corporation of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) for over 50 years (U.S. Department of Treasury is part of the U.N. see above) and now owns every man, woman and child in America.

    The U.N. also holds all of the land of America in Fee Simple.
    Source: http://home/iae.nl/users/lightnet/world/essays.html

    The good news is we don’t have to fulfill “our” fictitious obligations. You can discharge a fictitious obligation with another’s fictitious obligation.

    These documents are not secret. They are a matter of public record.

    Simple words such as “person” “citizen” “people” “or” “nation” “crime” “charge” “right” “statute” “preferred” “prefer” “constitutor” “creditor” “debtor” “debit” “discharge” “payment” “law” and “United States” doesn’t mean what we think it does because we were never taught the legal definitions of the above words.

    The illusion is much larger than what is cited.
    Don’t take my word for it ,research it for yourself. The truth cannot be told only realized.-Defender You were saying Ariel?

  • Steve Pert

    @ Ariel, Glad I got your attention. Now go out into a neighborhood where these killings by the police take place and effect change. Probably not a farming community.

    If you don’t want to be perceived as a pompous asshole in a posh neighborhood then stop typing like you are one. Read defender’s response and learn something. Nothing at all wrong with improving your situation, I did it to, but when you defend the killing of an innocent man in any way you are advocating deadly force being used by police against American citizens when it’s not called for.

    On a street level mentality, I hope like hell it happens to you or one you love. Then you will have a personal perceptive of Mr. Silva’s right to be alive. Pompous asshole.

  • Ariel

    Steve Pert,

    “@ Ariel, Here’s a statement for you. Take your educated, debate loving ass out on the streets and ask anyone in a poorer area of town who is the biggest gang. You will hear the same thing no matter where you are, the police.” And at the same time you’ll hear that they want more police coverage. What they don’t want is police that view them, by color or economic status, as the enemy. They want police that view them no differently from those lilly white, posh people. They want police that see them as human beings and treat them accordingly. They don’t want to have to ask the Crips or Bloods or MS-13 for protection, as that is no protection.

    Really, it’s not that hard to know what people want, they want to be treated as human beings. Grew up in those poor areas, like you did.

  • Steve Pert

    @ Ariel, How many bloods were hanging out by the barn where you lived? How many cops beat you down? I’m glad to hear you had support in a loving family to raise you up from the farmland where you began at.

  • defender

    I realize the emotional response concerning this death is natural, but we shall resolve nothing by calling others names. Judge not! None of us are perfect, all have injured others,physically,emotonally,psychologically and should have grown for the third person’s perspective of that pain we inflicted. I will continue to bump,bang and blindly stumble thru this life,but I will do so from a foundation of truth. So let your yes be yes and your no be no. All else is rotten and selfish. All law turns on facts and nothing else. Murder is murder and when those committing it are not held to account by those assigned to do so, you have an act of open war, fact.So let us adress the facts. A man was beaten to death, fact. He was alive prior to the police beating, fact. He was not after the beating, fact. Everyone has a right to self defense, fact. The officers made initial contact with Silva fact. He did not initiate contact with same, fact. Deadmen tell no tales, fact. So there are many questions at law unanswered, one of which is…Is it corporate policy or standard proceedure to strike the head of a suspect absent suspect using leathal force to avoid “LAWFUL” arrest? I was never trained to do so.And the equal protection clause affords all the expectation to be regulated in an identical manner. An example of this is the drver license and the reciprocial agreements between the states. That if you have a suspension in one its suspended in all agreeing states, by this legal logic then I can expect to be able to open carry in states allowing it and all other states under the equal protection clause. They cannot have it both ways, it is a contradiction in law and does not further the interest of justice. Dang people I can’t make you competent, you must be willing to do this for self. As the crevasse grows wider between the have’s and the have not’s we will see continued conflict between each other and it need not be so. As a man thinketh in his heart so is he. If you believe it true, it is. A change of heart and mind is truly in order. Like or no , you are your brother’s keeper.

  • Steve Pert

    And at the same time you’ll hear that they want more police coverage. What they don’t want is police that view them, by color or economic status, as the enemy. They want police that view them no differently from those lilly white, posh people. They want police that see them as human beings and treat them accordingly. They don’t want to have to ask the Crips or Bloods or MS-13 for protection, as that is no protection.

    Really, it’s not that hard to know what people want, they want to be treated as human beings. Grew up in those poor areas, like you did.

    Very well written. Now stand by that principle and stop acting as if Mr. Silva had any choice but to die by the hands of thugs in blue beating him to death. What were the numbers? 9 against 1? Was it 19 baton blows to the head? That would be at least 2 per officer, or did 1 go over the top? 1 strike to the head is to much. Cops are trained not to strike the head or spine yet there where 19 to the head alone! Mr. Silva’s death should haunt us all.

    You should use your education to make change in the system. I find it horrible you would defend any action that results in an Americans murder.

  • Ariel

    Steve Pert,

    “The police are indeed seen as a gang on the streets and you will NEVER be able to debate that away. Go fuck yourself you pompous asshole. I’m not here to debate with lost souls like yourself.”

    Which streets? Do you mean the poor and colored (the latter to cover all bases)? Yeah, the police still have a prejudice towards those streets, and treat the people there poorly (that’s a word that understates). But those same people want the police but want them to act differently. They want police to treat them as human beings. They want the Police to be what they should be.

    The Police as Gang is because the police act that way in those areas. They don’t in other areas, and that is a slam because they shouldn’t.

    “You so easily debate away a man’s life.” I haven’t debated any man’s life away, in fact, DSS’s life is just part of one long string of injustice in this country. You can hold a candle light vigil for him, and the next day the sun will come up and nothing has changed. But you’ll feel better. I won’t.

    Vote against the bastards, and the bastards are Republicans and Democrats that in anyway use “Law and Order” or any permutation as a platform,

  • defender

    Voting eh? Well I have a question for you Ariel. Can you explain the difference between a lawful elector who votes in PUBLIC and a “registered voter” that votes by secret ballot? There is a major difference. Actually two, I will be content with one. When a politican stumps and makes promises to his sheep and then fails to perform why is he/she not held to account for the promise broken? This is the secret. They only get an oppositional blasting from the opposing party amplified on the TV to pacify the sheep. Nothing of consequence happens. BUT IT COULD if the sheep were to have the arrows of knowledge in their quivers. See THE ERRANT SOVEREIGN by Augustus Blackstone for a ten dollar worded education.

  • Steve Pert

    defender, Do you have any other material to study? I am in need of arrows.

  • defender

    I went to a seminar once Steve, and the speaker passed out black hoods to the audiance and asked they put them on, but not before he showed the folks a 10 dollar gold piece. He explained that he would place it in the room somewhere and the first to find it could keep it. We could begin searching when he said begin. So all dawned their hoods as requested, and shortly thereafter he said the magic words, “Begin” so I took off my hood and walekd over to the coin and said I have it. Everyone removed hoods and many said “That’s not fair he took his hood off.” The speaker replied with ” I never said you had to wear them to search for the coin, only that you wear them while I was hiding it. I was wondering how long it would be before someone let go of ego and asked me for an arrow or two. I am grateful I wasn’t wholly dissappointed Steve, but you didn’t ask me for the arrows , nor did you ask for the material with which to make them. And to answer your query, yes I have a great deal of informational material to make arrows. So ask me for them and supply and email so that I may send them your way. – Defender

  • Ariel

    “If you don’t want to be perceived as a pompous asshole in a posh neighborhood then stop typing like you are one. Read defender’s response and learn something.”

    One, I don’t care that you perceive me as a pompous asshole in a posh neighborhood because I write “like one” (I did those quotes for you). But thank you for defining it and requesting I limit myself to your boundries so I don’t seem too uppity (do you know whether I’m black, white, or Hispanic by divination, or can you just tell by how I write?).

    Two, I read Defender’s response at !!:14. Past the pseudo-religious and really pompous language, so what? Other than this:”the deputies wives are not a seperate entity, they are married and the state sees it the same way. Were it not so why would one need a license/permission to be regulated by a third party called “this state” to wed?” That’s more sophistry if not pure stupidity. The state holds two one on asset and debt, but never on committing a crime. Never unless both committed the crime (oh, what new twists you can make). He just maintained the sins of one spouse are the sins of the other. I’m supposed to learn what from this guy, how to go back to 1000 AD?

    Anyway, all of this just makes me tired. And this by Steve Pert just adds perspective: “On a street level mentality, I hope like hell it happens to you or one you love. Then you will have a personal perceptive of Mr. Silva’s right to be alive. Pompous asshole.” And you are a malignant asshole, and can’t see that you are, because you can’t see that I never once questioned his right to life, nor have I diminished in any way his story here, but what I have done is note and challenge the other malignant assholes. And you are just one more malignant asshole for what you wrote, but you were plain spoken in your malignant assholery. That’s better than those that want to act like they aren’t. You were honest at least.

    Really, guys, your the same kind of effing people that lynched, you just think you’re better because you’re lynching a different group. But like all lynchers, it expands to those that disagree with you.

    You know, I’d rather be a pompous asshole than the malignant assholes you are. Any suggestions as to who you’d like dead next?

  • Steve Pert
  • defender

    Ariel, ad homenims and red herringsand non responsiveness do not a debate make. Sophistry ineed. How did you fare in forensics? By the response not too well I presume. My statements made earlier are not my own, they are public record,fact. Some are unwilling, weak,lame, or lazy to apply what grey matter they have to seek the answeres, so they lament and groan, these lamentations have echoed throughout the aeons, yet if one would have applied themselves they could shake the world to its foundations. The opposition to this end leave one ruled by his lessers, so let he who is ignorant remain ignorant.- Defender

  • defender

    ARIEL “The state holds to one on assets and debt but not on crime” All crime is commercial Ariel, remedial reading is indeed in order, or did you overlook the CFR cite I mentioned earlier. All crime is commercial! Ignorance lies in want of knowledge, stupidity is having the knowledge before you and functioning as though one was ignorant. Thus endeth the lesson.- Defender

  • Ariel

    Gee, are you trying to exceed me in pomposity? It takes better punctuation. Though the religious facade is interesting, I may adopt it just to make your followers less than guarded.

    I didn’t use ad hominems, that’s a fallacious technique for winning an argument, I was actually just insulting you because you deserve it. Go back, catch one of my red herrings, and show it here for all to see. It’s fine by me.

    Now this is just lame: “My statements made earlier are not my own, they are public record,fact.” And it was all about you making those facts public combined with your “not your own” statement but public facts of: “hell stop by to chat about this killing sometime. I’m sure they would welcome the visit.” Yep, just public facts. Nothing more.

  • Common Sense

    …don’t forget, the flag has a fringe too!

    I had to show this thread to some friends. They said most you are either retarded or just plan stupid. It was a toss up. But either way, you were all entertaining. One asked which one was going to dig their tornado shelter and start watching the bus stop first. I said it was probably defender.

  • Ariel

    “All crime is commercial Ariel”, yep, just like these are public facts: “hell stop by to chat about this killing sometime. I’m sure they would welcome the visit.”

    Now before I go to the crux: Stupidity is an inability to know; ignorance is not knowing; but willful ignorance is knowing but refusing to accept that knowing. You have it backwards, and one term short. That is just pathetic and devolving.

    So the crux:

    You’re pulling my leg right? All crime is commercial is one big category error. Ignorance lies in making such statements, willful ignorance lies when you actually know better. I won’t call you willful.

    I will never get this time back.

  • defender

    Go read the CFR cite above. All crime is commercial. Even forcible felonies.

  • Ariel

    ” One asked which one was going to dig their tornado shelter and start watching the bus stop first. I said it was probably defender.”

    At this point, I’m voting me. Just to get away from this total crap. I’m going to take a couple tomatoes with me to give me better conversation (I had this CPO that always used “an IQ two points above a tomato” on us and when riled claimed a retest gave the tomato the higher IQ).

    So, Common Sense, show some humanity and go over everything I wrote, and criticize the hell out of me. At this point, it’d bouy my spirits.

    Ok, I killed that one.

  • Ariel

    Yeah, in the CFR under the ATF. Which of course applies to all states, and all other titles of the CFR. Sigh…

    When you pick cherries, you stain your hands or just deserve a slap.

  • Ariel

    I actually looked up CFR Title 27. I will never get that time back.

    Common Sense, just shoot me. Please. You hate me, it should be easy. If you don’t, what can I do to change that? It would be better than this hell…yeah, yeah, I carry a responsibility for all this.

    Say that after the report.If you won’t do it here, I have this other thread…

  • RadicalDude

    Ariel says:
    May 16, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Steve Pert,

    “The police are indeed seen as a gang on the streets…”…

    …Which streets? Do you mean the poor and colored (the latter to cover all bases)? Yeah, the police still have a prejudice towards those streets, and treat the people there poorly (that’s a word that understates)…

    …The Police as Gang is because the police act that way in those areas. They don’t in other areas…

    ^^^What areas are you specifically referring to where they don’t act like gangs? Juxtaposing vs your description of “poor and colored” “streets” where they DO act as gangs, are you saying that in mostly-white rural areas, they don’t act like gangs? Areas like Bakersfield, CA? What areas or kinds of areas are referring to specifically, where you claim they don’t act as gangs?

  • RadicalDude

    @Ariel
    I am not saying police depts are LIKE gangs, I am saying FACTUALLY they ARE gangs. That is factually what they are, your argument that they are not gangs is a POLITICAL distinction, again you have articulated no FACTUAL distinction and no FACTUAL criteria to differentiate police from any other gang. And you can’t. Because there is no factual distinction, the only distinction is one of perception based on political superstitions.

  • RadicalDude

    From Cal Penal code:
    Definition of “criminal street gang”
    A criminal street gang is defined as any organization, association or group of three or more persons, whether formal or informal, which (1) has continuity of purpose, (2) seeks a group identity, and (3) has members who individually or collectively engage in or have engaged in a pattern of criminal activity. (Reference section 186.22(f) of the California Penal Code).

    1) Does the Kern county sheriff have a continuity of purpose?
    2) Does the Kern county sheriff seek a group identity?
    3) Does the Kern county sheriff have members who individually or collectively engage in, or who have engaged in, a pattern of criminal activity? Is manslaughter or 2nd degree homicide via bludgeoning in a gang beating a “pattern of criminal activity”?

  • RadicalDude

    From
    http://www.streetgangs.com/laws/definition_gang.html

    What is a Gang?

    Exactly how a street gang is defined has not found a consensus among the most prudent researchers on the topic. For research purposes, a gang definition is extremely important to define, for operational uses, for cross disciplinary work and for comparative analysis. Cities, states and countries all have differing views on what a gang is

    …group of associating individuals which has an identifiable leadership and organizational structure, either claims a territory in the community, or exercises control over an illegal enterprise; and engages collectively or as individuals in acts of violence or serious criminal behavior (California Office of Criminal Justice Planning 1987).

    ^^^Does the Kern county sheriff have an identifiable leadership? How about an organizational structure? Does the KERN COUNTY sheriff claim a territory? Do they engage in violence?

    … group whose members meet together with some regularity, over time, on the basis of group-defined criteria of membership and group-determined organizational structure, usually with some sense of territoriality (Jim Short 1990).

    ^^^Does the Kern county sheriff meet together with some regularity, over time, on the basis of group-defined criteria of membership and group-determined organizational structure? Does the KERN COUNTY sheriff have a
    sense of territoriality?

  • defender

    Ariel, it is very clear that you have not studied law and attempts to apply your own meaning to words and phrases at law are in error and lack accuracy. Personal attacks will avail you nothing. You lack debate skills. My grammar and punctuation are of no consequence here. I am not writing to receive a grade from you, professor.The statements made were sent to me by a third party originally. The citations are not mine. The following is my own: You are in want of intellect and lack ability to reason in logical terms, that being said you also are void of any knowledge of law and it shows profoundly. Go and get a FREE copy of Black’s Law 4d.Bouviers,Blackstone’s and Ballantine’s and examine some definitions of words and phrases in legal terms and become competent. Until then it is futile to bandy words with the ill equipt. I haven’t the time, nor the desire to inform you, since it is very apparent you lack ability to discern, or apply any information provided to you, sans the application of your ego. Good luck with your efforts.

  • defender

    We have lost our political power, so we shall use consumer commercial power, DO NOT DO BUSINESS WITH KERN COUNTY, OR ANYONE WHO DOES,CALL KERN CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND TELL THEM YOU BOYCOTT KERN’S BUSINESSES UNTIL JUSTICE IS DONE! CALL THEM 661.327.4421
    Officer Ryan Greer lives with wife Tarrah T Greer at 6901 Hooper Ave Bakersfield , California 93308 661-391-3175 patrol identifier is W8126. Sgt. Doug and Mary Sword live at 2120 Jason Street Bakersfield California.

  • defender

    seems someone published the Sheriff’s home address as well. Now he has the cops involved on paid admin leave and is providing them security due to threats made to the S.O. I’m no advcate of violence, some people are, like cops for example. This should be a leeson to police. Not everyone in the fraternity is accepting of beathing a man to death and intends to remain silent about it. So use caution and wisdom when acting, we are everywhere and watching and recording what you do.

    Defender

  • Ariel

    Defender,

    “Ariel, it is very clear that you have not studied law and attempts to apply your own meaning to words and phrases at law are in error and lack accuracy. Personal attacks will avail you nothing. You lack debate skills.” I made my living selling to corporations. No debate skills there. I’ve read legal opinions during college and since. Still do. Some are quite funny. I have also had two people say I should study law because I’m far beyond the people that they deal with, but that’s just anecdotal.

    When you say something lacks accuracy, show where. Otherwise you’re arguing from just assertion. It should be easy for you, since you’ve already identified where I’ve done it.

    As for a personal attack, anyone that ties someone not participating in an act to who did and try to lay any blame with that person because of association, yeah I get real personal. Your naming his wife and then asking people to stop by to tell “them” what they think is just that. It’s tribalistic thinking that has no place in this century or the last.

  • Ariel

    Steve Pert,

    “Why do you come here for intellectual debate? This site is for people to expose police brutality, false arrest and to hold police accountable for their actions. I can’t find anything anywhere in this sites description about debate.” Because if you aren’t debating, you’re in one big adolescent circle jerk? It may be pleasurable, but it means nothing other than it gives you all pleasure.

    “This is not a place for debate.” Debate being a give and take on what any post actually means, if anything? I’m not ready to rush to judgement without it. I still have that picture of an AEF black soldier hanging from a tree circa 1920-21 during the race riots of that time. I have this problem with lynching, no matter who it is that is being lynched. If that’s pompous, hallelujah.

    “Ariel, Glad I got your attention. Now go out into a neighborhood where these killings by the police take place and effect change. Probably not a farming community.” You missed the hints. I grew up poor in the San Gabriel Valley, not the Imperial where I was born. I always lived on the border of or in poor Hispanic areas. If you here me speak, you’d hear the short vowels and dropped consonants that are indicative of a high-poor or low middle-class speech (I had to work with a guy that was trained in discerning such, he was a pain in my ass as he couldn’t mistake the words for the pronunciation. Glad you do.).

    I don’t live in a posh community now, I’m strictly middle-class; gated communities with disproportional edifices make me uncomfortable. Just to insult your assumptions further, in the 60s when I traveled with my bio-mother, any border stop required that she and I spoke English to the agents. We are expressions of direct lineage to my great-grandmother: very high and dominate cheekbones, flat-faces, red-skin, and near jet black hair. That doesn’t mean I’ve experienced what minorities have, but only that you don’t know me and haven’t listened yet. In Arizona I got a lot of “are you half-breed?”, and it wasn’t meant as an insult just a question. If my grandfather or his mother was on a 1906 census, I’m a Native American. Whooppee. Nah, I’m still an Anglo white American, as all my Hispanic friends told me so long ago.

    But that was OT, If you want to join in on visiting the crimes of an individual on the family, making any excuse you think viable, fine. I hold the individual responsible and solely the individual. Give me your best good argument otherwise, and I’ll still show you tribal thinking. Defender was despicable, is despicable, and will remain despicable. Unless you want to justify tribalism, and you may give a good justification, but I don’t think you can without twists worthy of a yoga instructor. Prove me wrong.

  • Common Sense

    In case anyone still cared, he died of meth and heart disease, not blows to the head.

  • Unjustified

    That’s their story and they are sticking to it.

    To get an accurate and honest report regarding the death of David Sal Silva is unrealistic.

    In Kern County, the Sheriff is elected to serve as the Sheriff-Coroner-Public Administrator.

  • Unjustified

    Hey Common Sense ….

    I’ll bet you believe Travis Alexander died from self inflicted wounds.

  • Ariel

    Yep, it’s lucky the police got there when they did to give him CPR. Otherwise, he would have died alone.

    His robust figure points to constant amphetamine use.

    I hope the FBI look at all this closely to confirm the coroner’s report, which should absolve the KCSO of any responsibility. That would certainly vindicate the coroner’s boss, the Sheriff of Kern County.

    Conflict of interest is emphemeral.

  • Unjustified

    The sad thing is, it could have been handled differently.

  • Ariel

    Unjustified,

    “The sad thing is, it could have been handled differently.” if you mean the police that consoled David Sal Silva in his last moments of life, I don’t know how they could have handled it differently.

    If you mean the Coroner, asking to be independent of any LE would be a good start.

  • Unjustified

    Ariel,

    I mean he never should have had to die. The fact for me is, I have come to have a major distrust towards law enforcement. I know we need laws in our society. I just have seen too many abuses of power in my lifetime and believe it will only get worse. I love this great country that I live in and worry about it’s direction.

  • Ariel

    Unjustified,
    “I mean he never should have had to die. The fact for me is, I have come to have a major distrust towards law enforcement.” Most of my comments about DSS across threads have been dripping with sarcasm from the coroner’s report which really tried to maintain he would have died anyway; the cops actions where just a series of unfortunate events having nothing to do with his death.

    As for distrust, think of it as coming close to center but not quite. It isn’t that most cops are bad but that too many PDs allow bad behavior to continue. Distrust may be healthy, neutrality is healthy, hating or loving because of a badge isn’t healthy.

    Furthermore, why would I give whole trust to a stranger even with a badge? I reserve judgement.

  • Unjustified

    Ariel…

    This is true. I hope you have a safe and enjoyable Memorial Day.

  • Ariel

    Unjustified @ 2156,

    The same to you and all commenters here, even slappy.

  • Ariel

    So now my cross-comment to all LEOS from t.’s “I have to protect EVERYONES RIGHTS. You are only concerned with YOUR RIGHTS.” I use “you” for the profession

    No you enforce the law. If tomorrow the law was “free speech is confined to a 100 yard radius” at a municipal center, you’d enforce that law. If tomorrow the law said “round up Muslims” you would enforce that law. You enforced Jim Crow. You enforced anti-miscegnation laws. You beat bloody the Labor movement, the movement that gave you your Unions and wrongly because private isn’t public. If tomorrow SCOTUS made the 4th and 5th moot by decree, you’d move accordingly. You wouldn’t wait for the amendment, SCOTUS would suffice.

    If the laws are wrong, you enforce them. You aren’t a moral agent, you never have been. Your profession isn’t based on moral agency, it’s based on enforcing the law. You enforce laws even if morally wrong. You need to get that. You need to understand your part in injustice, accept it, and realize who you actually are: you enforce laws, no matter the morality. You aren’t moral agents, you enforce the law.

    The rest of us determine the law and it’s moral worth. You don’t, your profession has nothing to say on it. You are not moral agents.

  • rejco

    COLD-BLOODED MURDER!