A History of Modern Police

Published On June 19, 2013 | By CopBlock | Articles

From Another World Is Possible - an interesting piece explaining the development and history of the modern police establishment -

Most people accept this relationship as both given – and eternal. That there have always been men (if not always women)  in costumes “policing” the rest of us. But, in fact, it’s a relatively novel thing. Think back to your schooldays. Do you recall any mention of police when you were learning about the colonial era and the American Revolution? There were sheriffs, yes – and the local militia. But these were concerned mostly with keeping the peace – that is, stepping in when someone harmed someone else. Up to and even during the Civil War – a titanic struggle between the fading remnants of the old republican idea and the centralized, omnipotent state that took its place – the idea of police as we know it was essentially unknown. It is a modern concept – one developed out of the company town idea.

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  • certain

    Yeah, here’s a good site too –

    http://www.conspiracyfuckingcrackpots.com

  • Common Sense

    ha ha ha…nice

  • t.

    What a stinking pile. Since the establishment if cities there has always been a security presence. For centuries it was a military presence / force at work keeping order. At other times there has been the criminal gangs dictating order as they saw fit, protecting those thtat paid them (this is Pete’s idea….private army’s protecting only those who can pay…enforcing the will of a privileged few).

    The idea of the author is flawed. There has always been someone, or groups of someones that united to protect their community.

    The basis of these article is just not correct.

  • Adam Miller

    Another fucking bullshit story taken from an activist run website. I wonder how these fucking activists would actually protect themselves. The fuck who wrote this article plagarized it from a activist run website. Here these fucking activists think they can police themselves yet, they are in jail all the time. Fucking criminals protecting criminals.

  • Keith

    Scrappy you dumb ass, again, using big words you don’t understand. The first line of the post credited the source, due to that, IT IS NOT PLAGARIZED! Fucking retard!

  • Mac

    This actually originated on Eric Peter’s site and is here->
    http://ericpetersautos.com/2013/05/24/where-do-cops-come-from/

    Oh, and ‘adam miller’ is a fucktard.

  • Adam Miller

    Keith – You cunt. Almost every story on cockblock is plagarized. Just like when you write your little stories. You are just another dumbcunt activist who can’t see the obvious. Go choke yourself cunt.

  • steve

    shutt-up slappy, just shut the hell up.

  • YankeeFan

    As to what T has said…amen. Civilized societies always create some form of police force or whatever you wish to call it and rules that they want enforced. Even the most primative of peoples living in the deepest parts of the Amazonian rain forest will adopt rules for their society they have created. Live by them or as my kids say…GTFO!!

  • Adam Miller

    steve – How many gerbils are you jamming per day? Do you honestly think you are going to “shut me up”? Why don’t you go back to pissing on your grandparent’s graves. That is all you were worth to them anyhow. You fucking lie about everything. You are a fraud. Stupid cunt.

  • RadicalDude

    t. says:
    June 19, 2013 at 9:44 am

    The idea of the author is flawed. There has always been someone, or groups of someones that united to protect their community.

    ^^^Ya, but that’s not what modern police are, their function is primarily to financially prey on their “constituency”(victims). The courts have said they really have no duty to protect anyone. They do serve some “protective” functions although that is almost incidental to their true purpose(bringing in revenue to their corporate masters/political overlords).

  • t.

    Dude: Surprisingly, wrong. I get no financial reward for any citations I write. Neither does my city. Your very limited understanding is showing.

  • t.

    Oh, and your understanding of the “public duty doctrine” is wrong too. Shocking

  • YankeeFan

    Found this article on Policeone about the “Public Duty Doctrine. Was an interesting read.

    http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/4913117-Addressing-cops-confusion-over-the-public-duty-doctrine/

  • t.

    YF: Thanks for the link. Many of these clods still won’t get it.

  • Unjustified

    Maybe it’s just me but this title “A History of Modern Police” is weird. If it’s talking about “modern” it’s “history” I think would be rather short. So… Are they talking about the history of police or the evolution of modern police?

  • Unjustified

    After reading the … Addressing cops’ confusion over ‘the public duty doctrine’ … I ask myself… Why would someone call the police???

    link:
    http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/4913117-Addressing-cops-confusion-over-the-public-duty-doctrine/

  • Unjustified

    Seeing as I am not out there participating in criminal activity, and the police have no obligation to render assistance, (“police officers… have no obligation to protect any one individual …”)…. makes more sense I rely on the Castle Doctrine and handle my own business. It covers my home, business or car.

  • RadicalDude

    t. says:
    June 19, 2013 at 6:38 pm

    Dude: Surprisingly, wrong. I get no financial reward for any citations I write. Neither does my city. Your very limited understanding is showing.

    ^^^Where does the money go?

  • Dr Kranknstein

    LOL…Nice one certain…I actually got a good laugh of of that.

  • Dr Leaky Piles

    Mr Adam Miller,

    We here at the London Institute of Cognitive Research Studies have recently become aware of your posts on this website, and would love to have the opportunity to monitor you in our laboritory. We would happily remunerate you the price of a first class plane ticket if you would consent to visit us here at L.I.C.S and spend some time in our research studios being studied and monitored by our expertly trained staff. We have specific tasks in mind for you to perform, such as seeing if you are able to walk and talk at the same time, drink a cup of coffee whilst typing, and count to 5 unaided by a calculator. We do not wish to over-excite you, but we at L.I.C.S suspect that you may well be the missing link – the riddle that has confounded paleontologists for years!!!

    Please post me back on this site if you are interested in travelling to L.I.C.S to be studied by our monkey trainers. Or if you are unable to type a salient response just hack away at the keyboard in a random chimpanzee-like manner like you usually do, and we`ll take that as a yes.

    Yours sincerely,

    Dr Leaky Piles.

  • Dr Leaky Piles

    Dear Mr Miller,

    I am sorry to trouble you further, but I have two further, rather brief questions:

    i) How many bananas do you eat per day? Our fruititionists are curious to know whether you consume more than one bunch?

    ii) When taking your toilet, do you employ tissue paper to clean yourself and then flush the bowl promptly when disposing of your excretement, or do you jump about in an agitated state shreaking like a banshee whilst throwing it against the walls and rubbing it all over your face and body?

    Answering these two questions will greatly help our research team who are currently studying your uniquely simian case.

    Yours sincerely,

    Dr Richard Leaky Piles

  • courtofpublicopinion

    @ radicaldude it goes into the city,county or state operating fund of the agency that issued the ticket just another point where t’s ignorance is showing unless of course he can post proof of where all monies collected by his agency go to ??[charity maybe??]

  • t.

    Court: Here ARE places (locals go ernments) that get those funds and use it to funds there operation. Where I work, we don’t, at least not in any direct way. Those funds are pooled at the state level and go to py for things like courts, rehab and diversion programs, grants. Not all states / jurisdictions are the same. The “blanket” statements purposing that I have a financial insentive…..is what we in the business call “wrong”.

    Unjust: As I’ve tried to explain before, the problem is the lawsuit happy world we live in. People have tried to sue the police for not stopping drunk drivers that killed their loved ones. Or not stopping someone “from protection the property” that their oath says they will when they took their oath. It’s nonsensical. I had this discussion with Pete directly several months ago and he eventually just stopped when I asked how he want us to do that? For me to ensure that your house doesn’t get burgaized I’d have to be in your house at all times. Basically a 1-1 ratio. Now that’s a police state. It would also be unreasonable. The “public duty doctrine” isn’t a law. It’s a doctrine / theory. It’s part of what goes into “in custody deaths”….special relationships. It’s why when I’m dealing with you on the street for something criminal, and there is PC to arrest you for threatening, assaulting , whatever….that I can’t justet you go. We have, for that moment in time, have a special relationship. But hey, don’t call. But don’t be surprised when someone calls us about you.

  • shawn

    @T

    ” Dude: Surprisingly, wrong. I get no financial reward for
    any citations I write. Neither does my city. Your very
    limited understanding is showing.”

    Sorry, but governments to benifit. You are a back door tax collector. Or did you miss speed trap towns, cities shortening yellow lights at camera intersections. Stateshave had to pass laws on how much revenue canbe generated by tickets in order to control the preditory activity.
    I believe it was Huston that just got in trouble for extorting forfetures by threatening people’s children.

    You can pretend your hands are clean, but you know better.

  • steve

    T, I DON’T BELIEVE FOR ONE SECOND THAT THE TICKETS YOU WRITE DON’T GO TO PROFIT THE CITY AND PAY FOR YOUR JOB AND SUCH. I BELIEVE IF YOU DIDN’T WRITE ANY TICKETS YOU WOULD BE REPREMANDED. THE CITY , COUNTY AND STATE RELY ON THE TICKETS THAT YOU AND YOUR FELLOW LAW ENFORCEMENT FAMILY WRITE ON A DAILY BASIS WHILE YOU ARE ON THE STREET. IT PROFITS AND PAYS FOR YOUR EQUIPMENT AND PAYS FOR THE COURT SYSTEM.MILLIONS IF NOT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS ARE MADE OFF THESE CITATIONS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY. MORE AND MORE LAWS ARE ENACTED FOR THIS PURPOSE EVERY YEAR.ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS FOLLOW ANYONE YOU WANT DOWN THE STREET AND YOU WILL FIND AND INFRACTION TO WRITE THEM FOR AND THE MORE YOU WRITE THE MORE YOUR LIKED AT WORK BY YOUR SUPERIORS BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM LOOK GOOD.NOT ONLY THE INFRACTIONS BUT THE CRIMINAL OFFENSES THAT YOU FIND ARE A PROFIT TO. YOU CAN DENY THIS BUT IT’S A KNOWN FACT.

  • Adam Miller

    Steve the fucking liar. Exactly what does the city, county, and state rely on the tickets that are written? What proof do you have that shows just what you said ignate? Again, you are lying over and over. You write with the caps on so people hear you better? You are a fucking lying cunt.

  • RadicalDude

    “t. says:
    June 20, 2013 at 8:33 am

    Court: Here ARE places (locals go ernments) that get those funds and use it to funds there operation. Where I work, we don’t, at least not in any direct way. Those funds are pooled at the state level and go to py for things like courts, rehab and diversion programs, grants. Not all states / jurisdictions are the same. The “blanket” statements purposing that I have a financial insentive…..is what we in the business call “wrong”.”

    ^^^You have no financial incentive? So, you don’t get a paycheck every two weeks or so? You show up to work just out of an altruistic
    sense of “duty”? So, then it’s not a “job”, but rather a form of social activism?

  • RadicalDude

    Sometimes I go to court just to observe, as part of my legal research.
    From what I have seen probably about 2/3 to 3/4 or more of all the court “cases” are predatory in nature. In other words, the underlying allegation made by the cop contains no actual injury or allegation of injury. It is like a fake slip and fall case, it is not to address any actual underlying injury or “justiciable case or controversy”, it is just an excuse to financially prey on the defendant. Maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the accusations involve an actual crime or tort with an actual victim or injured party. Generally, the only victim in this type of proceeding is the defendant himself.

  • steve

    After reading the article on ” public duty doctrine ” of which ,YankeeFan turned me onto and it was written by a policeman with 29 yrs experience in law enforcement on the policeone site ,I found myself absolutely disgusted in what police have become over a short time.Nothing but excuses as to their behavior and what their job is. I firmly believe at this time the public should arm their selves and not bother calling the police because your better off handling criminal problems that happen towards you or your family by yourself. The public doctrine is all excuses for not protecting the public. The public duty doctrine is all excuses.There is no more honor behind any badge in America. read it for youself. http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/4913117-addressing-cops-confusion-over-the-public-duty -doctrine. Iwas horrified at how they think of the public.

  • steve

    MILLER SHUTT UP OR PROVE ME WRONG.I M STILL UP ON A BOXING MATCH WITH YOU ASSHOLE . JUST AS I STATED . I WOULD LOVE TO KNOCK YOUR BIG MOUTH SHUT. YOUR NUTHUN BUT A NEUSANCE AND IT’S TIME FOR YOU TO LEARN A REAL LESSON IN PUBLIC. F.U. LOSER WANNA BE COP.PUSSY TRASH MOUTH POT HEAD .

  • RadicalDude

    And that’s the cases that even make it to court, who knows how many more pay by mail? The point is, police and the courts generally do not act in a primarily “protective” capacity, but rather their violence is primarily directed towards predatory ends. And it is generally not “retaliatory” or “defensive”. The modus operandi of the modern police force is to initiate violence against peaceful people for the purpose of financial predation.

  • Adam Miller

    Oh look, it’s steve the liar making threats again. Obviously you have no verbal arguement to support your statements so you fucking lie. Do you honestly think I would let you pound on me? You are fucking stupid. Now you continue to make verbal threats. I already told you you fucking lying cunt I live in Keene so it wouldn’t be hard to find me you cunt faggot. You aren’t that tough nor are you honest. You are a fucking lying piece of shit. What color is the sky in your world today liar?

  • steve

    I M NOT GOING TO STALK YOU I JUST WOULD LIKE YOU TO ANSWER YES OR NO TO THE CHALLENGE.

  • YankeeFan

    Adam Miller says:
    June 20, 2013 at 6:24 pm

    Oh look, it’s steve the liar making threats again. Obviously you have no verbal arguement to support your statements so you fucking lie. Do you honestly think I would let you pound on me? You are fucking stupid. Now you continue to make verbal threats. I already told you you fucking lying cunt I live in Keene so it wouldn’t be hard to find me you cunt faggot. You aren’t that tough nor are you honest. You are a fucking lying piece of shit. What color is the sky in your world today liar?

    This is an awesome troll. Accusing someone of not backing up an argument. I bet you think you are funny you troll piece of shit?

  • t.

    Dude: You have descended straight to really dumb. I don’t think I could say it any clearer….but still you can’t get it. My paycheck has nothing to do with tickets written nor arrests made. Damn you’re dumb.

  • RadicalDude

    “t. says:
    June 20, 2013 at 9:39 pm

    My paycheck has nothing to do with tickets written nor arrests made.”

    Are you issued checks or other payment for performing a job for a police department of a municipal corporation, and does said job include, as part of its job description and/or job duties, making arrests and/or writing tickets?

  • RadicalDude

    @Yankee,
    He is a prank character created by a troll, he is smarter than he lets on, the slappy act is basically him playing dumb, and then he sits there and laughs at you for becoming part of the prank. He also plays the centurion character it is basically like a cross between tony clifton and the jerky boys, with us as the butt of his joke. Seriously he is a demented troll, this whole thing is a big prank to him.

  • YankeeFan

    Radical Dude,

    I know he is a troll. He doesn’t get to me. He only trolls you if you get mad. I know what he is and what his only purpose here is. This site has become such a joke that commenting to a troll is almost better than commenting on some topics!

  • Common Sense

    Barring a specific public safety millage, most police departments are funded by property taxes, not tickets.

    In some police departments, a traffic enforcement officer can be ‘self funded’ – meaning that their salary is in fact based on the number of tickets written and fine collected. But that’s not actually accurate, their salary is still paid for by the tax base, but the revenue generated ‘repays’ that amount making them revenue neutral. In some regards, its like a COPS/SRO grant.

    Additionally, if one simply calls a local courthouse and asks what does the traffic fine go towards, I bet you actually get an answer, instead of guessing.

    In my state, out of a $100.00 ticket, the (city)police department sees about $18.00 that goes into a general fund, that can only be used for specific allocations, not an officer’s salary. The rest goes to the court, state fund, library fund, hunter education, etc.

    An officer is paid the same whether they write 100 tickets a month or none. Whether they make 50 arrests or zero. If they do noting, they can in fact be termed for ‘low performance’ but tickets/arrests cannot be the sole factor.

  • t.

    Again, you are to dumb to be believed. I can’t say it any more clearly. Get it, or move on.

  • steve

    BOTH COMMON SENSE AND T ARE IN DENIAL OR JUST PLAIN OL PROPAGANDISTS.

  • t.

    STEVE: YOU JUST HAVE AN OVERLY SIMPLISTIC…AND RUDIMENTARY UNDERSTANDING BASED ONLY ON LIMITED KNOWLEDGE. THERE ARE JURISDICTIONS THAT FUNCTION AS YOU SAY. BUT NOT ALL STATES / CITIES FUNCTION THAT WAY.

    Its OK that you don’t understand that. You can’t know everything about everywhere. But your limited knowledge, which seems to be based mainly on “urban legend” is far from….well it far from knowledge.

    Your approach and understanding are a lot like @Dudes. Simplistic and shallow. You just don’t act as pompous as he does.

    Don’t get me wrong, you are still very wrong about what you are saying.

  • Adam Miller

    steve – two people have different opinions and you asy they are in denial or propagandists. What’s the fucking matter with you? Does everyone have to agree with everything posted on this fucking bullshit site? People look at all of your lies and see what a fucked up person you are. They aren’t going to side with you faggot cunt.

  • steve

    MILLER I WILL NO LONGER REPLY BACK TO YOU . YOU ARE A PUSSY AND A COWARD FINAL

  • steve

    WELL T I GUESS I WILL HAVE TO DELVE INTO THIS MUCH FARTHER THEN.

  • Adam Miller

    steve the fucking cunt liar. Of course you are going to run and hide. You were owned bitch and you know it. You are the fucking cunt running away. The coward is you. No one believes any shit you say. You are a fucking liar and a fraud. Go choke yourself cunt.

  • RadicalDude

    Again, all the authoritarians have is ad hominems. None of my premises have been directly addressed, t. won’t even answer the question, because he knows the answer will contradict what he has said. To the authoritarians, violence and aggression is the answer, logic is beside the point to them.
    Not really gonna further respond to the agressive ad hominem attacks, just want to point out that it’s all they have(aggression, not reason), and I expect to be further proven right on this point.

  • RadicalDude

    Thanks for the info, Common Sense.

  • RadicalDude

    @steve:
    Good move, I think slappy would have quit this a long time ago if he was ignored from the get go. He loves the attention and drama.
    Compare the “voice” he writes in as Miller/slappy to the voice he uses when he plays centurion, you have to realize the slappy character is just an act he does.

  • Adam Miller

    radicaldude fucker. You are another worthless gerbil jamming loser. IF you believe that faggot steve is going to stop then you are truly a stupid fucker. You think I am someone else and I’ve never had to take on another role. So you are fucking wrong. When I was fucking your mom on your grandma’s grave she told me she is concerned about your gerbil collection. You continue to buy more and more of them but they are disapearing. Then we went to piss on your grandfather’s grave. You are a fucking loser gerbil jammer.

  • steve

    THANK YOU RADICALDUDE I HOPE EVERYBODY DOES THE SAME.

  • t.

    Dude: What question / premise haven’t I answered? State a concise question, none of your normal gibberish. What would you like to know?

  • t.

    Steve: Im really not trying to talk down at you. The information that you are working under is either incomplete or flat out wrong.

  • steve

    I SAY THIS FOR SURE IF YOUR A STREET COP AND YOU WRITE TO FEW TICKETS AND DON’T MAKE ENOUGH ARRESTS, YOUR BOSS IS GOING TO HAVE SOME CONCERNS ABOUT YOUR JOB. IF ANF LEO OUT THERE DENIES THIS ,ILL HAVE A GOOD LAUGH.

  • steve

    T. I WILL LOOK INTO THIS MUCH DEEPER. HOWEVER I GREW UP WITH A FEW GUYS THAT TURNED OUT TO BE LAPD,LASD AND CHP. SOME ARE RETIRED NOW AND SOME ARE STILL WORKING AND ONE WAS RETIRED FROM LAPD FOR THE STRESS OF SHOOTING AN OLD WOMAN NAMED BEULA LOVE IN LOS ANGELES. I HAVE FRIENDS THAT SERVE NOW IN LOUISANA AS STATE AND TOWN POLICE THEY ARE IN ONE FAMILY. SOME OF THESE I GREW UP WITH A COUPLE I SERVED WITH.

  • Unjustified

    to steve
    June 22, 2013 at 12:38 am

    In your post above you stated… “ONE WAS RETIRED FROM LAPD FOR THE STRESS OF SHOOTING AN OLD WOMAN NAMED BEULA LOVE IN LOS ANGELES.”

    If you are referring to the January 3, 1979 shooting by officers Edward Hopson and Lloyd O’Callahan in the West Athens area of south Los Angeles, her name was “Eula Love” and she was 39 yrs. old.

  • RadicalDude

    “t. says:
    June 21, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    Dude: What question / premise haven’t I answered? State a concise question”

    Are you issued checks or other payment for performing a job for a police department of a municipal corporation, and does said job include, as part of its job description and/or job duties, making arrests and/or writing tickets?

  • Common Sense

    From what I’ve read, I think its unwise to threaten cops with a butcher knife, even in 1979…

  • t.

    Steve: I certainly look at the “productivity” of my guys. But that involves everything that they are doing, not just “writing tickets” or “making arrests”. I worked in an area of the city where incident write a traffic tickets for 3 or 4 years. There are HUGE subtlties that you are missing. If I answer 20+ “calls for service” in a 12 hrs shift, that doesn’t leave a lot of time for other things. (I think the busiest 2 shifts I ever had in 18 years was either a 12 hour weekend night shift where I had 34 calls, or a an 8 hour day shift where I had 11 calls and took 11 reports). Now not every shift, or every jurisdiction is like that. But do a little math….a department of 500 patrol guys…averaging 20 calls each per 12 hour shift…each working 14 shifts a month. Do that math and see how busy it can be.
    Now none of that takes into account specialty assignments. Traffic units, drug units, street crime units, all have different “measuring sticks”.
    Heck, things change throughout the year. Right now school just let out for the summer. Neighborhood crime rates shoot through the roof. Calls for service about suspicious persons, trespassers, thefts, loud parties, serious wrecks….all things teenager related, those calls go through the roof.
    BTW…(without looking it up right now)…the leading cause of death for people between 5 and 35 is traffic accidents.
    Again, I’m not trying to talk down at you. But there is SO much more to police work than the silly little things typically reported and talked about on this site. When I say people show “T.V. and movie” learning, its because it is clear that all the know about the police is just that….what they saw on t.v.

  • t.

    Dude: Yes. PART of the job description of patrol officers in my department is to write tickets and make arrests. PART. Not ALL.
    What we strive for is problem resolution. Such as…if we have a location where we are getting complaints of speeding, or there have been a lot of crashes. The guys will be visible…writing a lot of tickets…in that area for a while. Slow everyone down., make sure they stop at the red lights and stop signs. Problem resolution. Maybe a new bar opened up recently and there have been several drunks drivers arrested after leaving there. A .of of visible traffic stops and police activity in the area plants the seed in the bars patrons that maybe they should have someone sober drive instead. Problem resolution.

    But, once again, NONE of the monies associated with any of those activities….fines, court costs, seized vehicles…none of that pays any of their salaries. Their salareies are a budgeted item through the city (tax dollars). SOME of the specialized equipment used may come from grants which are paid for from the pool of funds generated from citations written. But most of what the guys use everyday isn’t from that fund. When you see “radar trailers” and crazy stuff like that….those are usually paid for out of that fund. But most of the money (fines) goes to other programs…away from law enforcement.
    Now, as I pointed out earlier but you and Steve both ignored, this isn’t the case for ALL jurisdictions. @Common Sense explained it very clearly on 6/21 @ 8:28.

    You are buying into urban myth.

  • Ariel

    t.,

    Natural causes are first, between birth and 19. Accidental is second and about half for the same age span; accidental is all accidental with motor vehicle being about half of that. So you get into about 1/4 for that age span (if you narrowed it to 16 to 19, it would likely go well and way up, as it would if I dropped 0-4.999 in the span where natural causes predominate). When you take the span to your point, a 30 year swing, the numbers really become meaningless.

    You, by job, likely see more death by auto accident than by natural causes, so the skewed view is expected. I routinely look at various stats about every quarter, and generally on government sites and university sites. I don’t trust stats from advocacy groups without other and independent verification. Even then, if I don’t see raw numbers before percents and rates I don’t trust the stats.

    As a rule of thumb, natural causes predominate in childhood (I use that broadly to include teenagers before DL), accidental predominates in early-mid adulthood, natural again predominates after.

    BTW, and you’re not old enough to remember this directly, auto accidents in the 60s and into the 70s were generally 40 to 45K per year, with a population 2/3rds of today (1970 200M, 1960 about 180M, and yeah I remember the first firsthand). It’s now in the mid-30K range with 50% more population (2/3rds to 1 is a 50% change). Restraints played a big part (I include air bags and side bags for today) but restraints existed in the 60s, including shoulder, but without the improved passenger compartment integrity (that includes the energy absorbing compaction of both front and rear ends), those numbers would likely be in the 40K today. That would still be a vast improvement, but the numbers we see today are from structural improvements combined with restraints. Restraints without that mean you’re in your seat wearing an engine and transmission. But at least you didn’t hit the windshield or steering wheel, though you may have broken arms and facial injuries from the airbag. Trade offs.

  • Ariel

    The numbers I gave on auto accidents were total deaths, not that anyone needed to know that because no one would think otherwise.

  • t.

    Wow. “Meaningless”. Bet they aren’t meaningless to their families. As for your restraints. They weren’t mandatory until 72. But the improvements in restraint systems, automotive design and highway construction….shows that death or even severe injury in an auto crash comes from serious driver error and almost always factors such as high speeds (speeding), failure to obey traffic controls (running red lights / stop signs), or DWI / DUI. The fact that there are so many deaths related to autos in that 5-35 age groups should be all the more shocking when one combines the restraints and various engineering with the “police state” that supposedly exists.

    Oh, you “forgot” to mention that during the 70′s and 80′s we saw the emergence of dedicated traffic units to deal with the growing numbers of motorists and increased speeds and the rapid expansion of “bedroom communities” and suburbs that vastly increased commutes. I’m sure that was just an over site in your thoughts.

  • Common Sense

    Imagine if a cops pay was a direct result of tickets. No tickets, no pay. No arrests, no pay. There would be a bounty on each and every turn signal, speeder, and wanted subject.

    Something tells me the liberals wouldn’t like it that way…

  • t.

    Liberalism isn’t reality based.

  • RadicalDude

    Liberalism is a sub category of corporate authoritarianism, which is superstitious, irrational, illogical violence/ aggression.

  • t.

    Very superstitious…writings on the wall.

  • steve

    YES UNJUSTIFIED IT WAS EULA LOVE SORRY. IT WAS A RIDICULOUS SHOOT BOOTH OFFICERS SHOULD HAVE BEEN TRIED FOR MURDER. IT ALMOST CAUSED A RIOT.AND THAT WAS MY FRIEND LLOYD O’CALLAHAN. WE WERE SCHOOL MATES AND WE STUDIED MARTIAL ARTS TOGETHER FROM ABOUT 15 YRS OLD TO ABOUT 20 HE BECAME AN LAPD AND I JOINED THE SERVICE BEFORE I WAS DRAFTED. LLOYD WAS TO AGGRESSIVE IN CLASSES, HE WOULD NEVER STOP UPON THE SENSEI ORDERS EVEN WHEN OPONENT STOPPED. WE BOTH STUDIED UNDER EAVES BREA A FRENCH MASTER OF KUNG FU AND JUDO. I DONT WANT TO PASS ON ANY OTHER OF THE MASTERS NAMES THEY ARE STILL LIVING.LLOYD WAS JUST TO AGRESSIVE AND SHOULD HAVE NEVER JOINED LAPD.

  • Ariel

    Restraints started to be required in this country in California in 1955. Both my VW Beetles had full restraints (68 and 69). My mother’s early 60s station wagon had restraints, as did her 66.5 Charger, perhaps because all states made seat belts mandatory by 1965. “not federally mandated” doesn’t mean non-existent. If by restraints you meant seat belt and shoulder harness, yeah probably 1972, but they were in cars well before that date.

    “Wow. “Meaningless”. Bet they aren’t meaningless to their families” is a non-sequitur. In fact, it’s just plain stupid “appeal to emotion” and you did that to counter this “When you take the span to your point, a 30 year swing, the numbers really become meaningless.” The numbers do in the way you tried to use them, bringing in “but not to the families”, doesn’t give the numbers any more meaning.

    In the 70s we had the double nickle. That was the greatest speed one could go except in Nevada. You gots to get up to speed so to speak. So those dedicated units in the 1970s made specifically to deal with increased speeds and numbers were doing what exactly? BTW, it stayed in force from roughly 1974 until 1987. So in the early 80s those special units were doing what exactly to counter those higher speeds? And that increased population? You mean from 203-205M in 1970, to 227M in 1980, and 249M in 1990. You do understand that most of that increase couldn’t drive? But I will give you that the baby boom generation put more drivers on the road from 1962 through roughly 75-78 (the extension of it to 1964 is like saying a Doberman’s tail has meaningful weight).

    Now if by increased speeds during that time, you mean city streets shifting from 35 to 40 or 45, that was a call by traffic engineers.
    It certainly wasn’t on highways, freeways, or interstates.

    OK, so the next problem with your comment , besides all the water is wet (you missed relative speed as a big factor, or camber as a minor one), you couldn’t let go of that vast span of 5-35, even when I showed you 5-19. It isn’t shocking, unless being shocked is the state you need to be in, in fact it’s been going down faster than the population has risen. 50,000 divided by 205M (1970) gives 0.24 per 1000, 35,000 divided by 300M gives 0.12 per 1000 (2010), that’s halving the death toll. (I used a lower number of deaths in 1970, and a higher number of deaths and a lower population in 2010, if you don’t understand what that means in results, go ask your middle-schooler).

    Now I understand you want to say it’s all about you, and all you have to show is that accidents have gone down by half per 1000 in the years between 1970 and 2010. Doing that doesn’t diminish the impact of car design on survivability, but would at least give some worth to your argument.

  • THE AUTHORITY

    THESE CRIMES OF THE POLICE MUST BE PUNISHED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I AM THE AUTHORITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Common Sense

    Steve. No one cares about your fantasy world.

    Now go do karate in the garage while the adults talk.

  • Adam Miller

    steve the lying fucker is at it again. Now he claims to be some martial arts expert. Hilarious!!!! You really try to build a fantasy life. It’s good you are on a fucking bullshit web site such as this one. Your made up lying stories fit perfectly. You are a fucking liar cunt.

  • t.

    You are extrodinarily obtuse. YOU take my comment to Dude and decide to wrongly break down the stat to show what you want it to (such is the problem with statistics true). When I mention that the deaths of those traffic victims aren’t meaningless to their families…you apparently disagree. Then you go on some diatribe about restraints (which you didn’t get right even when you first mentioned them) and don’t even get that their mandatory inclusion in cars, coupled later with mandatory use and then the inclusion of supplemental restraints systems and then multiple airbags and improved 2 stage air ages along with other engineering improvements such as designed crush zones, door reinforcements, far improved materials, better tires, improved highway designs and safety barriers, enhanced signage, the expansion / creation of dedicated police units for traffic enforcement / safety….all of that…and still its the leading cause of death as stated. But yet, when faced with overwhelming truth…you still think you have some idea.

    How do I know that you are clueless? Look at the 2nd sentence of your 4th paragraph. If there wasn’t an increase in speeds on the freeway / highways….why were there still deaths? Why were tickets being written? Nobody said anything about legal speed dumbass. You know, I’ve read some dumb things on this site, but that line and your line of thinking about it, may very well be the dumbest.

    As for your stats going down. True. And your welcome. All of the above listed highway and vehicle improvements, coupled with increased traffic enforcement…have worked to greatly reduce traffic deaths and injuries. But the fact that with all of those improvements is design…there are still deaths and serious injuries is plain and clear evidence that traffic enforcement is needed.

    Thanks for playing though.