How a Philadelphia Family Lost Their Home to Asset Forfeiture

Published On September 11, 2013 | By CopBlock | Articles

Nick Sibilla shared this post via CopBlock.org’s submit page.

Under the legal doctrine of civil forfeiture, police can seize property tangentially linked to a crime, even if the property owner herself is innocent. As Isaiah Thompson reports in the Philadelphia City Paper, this is precisely what happened to Sandra Leino and her family:

“Long before the forfeiture action against her house would be completed, and without a judge or jury ever seeing her face, Leino would be forced from her house and made homeless along with her three children. She would lose her most precious possessions, and ultimately be deprived of her family’s most valuable asset — all without Leino ever being accused of any crime.”

But while Sandra and her children were completely innocent of any wrongdoing, her husband, Sam, was accused and arrested for
selling prescription pills. (Sandra asserts Sam was legally using those painkillers for his own personal use, after he was partially disabled from a truck accident.)

Just a few months after his arrest, the Philadelphia District Attorney filed a motion to seize the Leinos’ home in May 2010—a year and a half before Sam Leino even went to trial. Later that month, the Leinos were kicked out of their own home. They tried staying at a motel, but couldn’t afford it for more than one week. With no other options at the time, they were even forced to sleep in the backwoods.

Fortunately, a relative was able to take the Leinos for five months, albeit in tight quarters. Since then, Sandra has been able to rent a new place.

“But on her own now, and unable to pay rent on top of the mortgage on the house she was barred from entering, she began missing mortgage payments. When the DA did eventually withdraw its forfeiture case against the Leinos’ house, it was only because the bank had already foreclosed.”

As for Sam, in 2012, he went to trial and was “found guilty of one count of possession with intent to distribute, and sentenced to three to six years.”

But the story doesn’t end there. Isaiah Thompson elaborates:

“Four of the police officers who surveilled and arrested Sam Leino are among a group of six narcotics officers whose credibility has been effectively dismissed by the DA’s Office itself after allegations were made in open court that they were part of a drug-dealing ring within the Philadelphia Police Department…How many times the DA’s forfeiture unit has seized property based on the testimony of these officers is not presently clear.”

So far, the Philadelphia DA has dropped almost 300 cases due to this misconduct.

Unfortunately, Sandra Leino’s story is not an isolated incident. Between 300 and 600 real-estate forfeiture cases are brought per year by the Philadelphia District Attorney. Lax laws and scant protections have created hundreds of Sandra Leinos, just in Philadelphia.

According to the Institute for Justice’s nationwide study, Policing for Profit, Pennsylvania has some of the worst civil forfeiture laws. Law enforcement agencies can forfeit property based on a mere “preponderance of the evidence,” which is a much less stringent standard than the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard used in criminal convictions.

Plus, property owners have to prove their innocence, reversing both the burden of proof and centuries of jurisprudence. In other words, in civil forfeiture proceedings, property owners actually have fewer protections than accused criminals.

Not only that, under Pennsylvania state law, police can keep 100 percent of all proceeds seized from civil forfeiture. In fact, the Philadelphia DA has raked in more than $6 million a year in civil forfeiture proceeds.

Most of this policing for profit is from cash seizures. But “the average amount of cash seized by Philadelphia police was $550 — hardly the proceeds of a Pablo Escobar or a Walter White.” No wonder a Pennsylvania judge has lambasted civil forfeiture as “little more than state-sanctioned theft.”

Nick Sibilla is a writer at the Institute for Justice. This is a repost from IJ’s Liberty in Action blog. If you or anyone you know has been a victim of civil forfeiture, contact the Institute for Justice here: http://www.ij.org/about/potentialcase.

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  • Common Sense

    The article should read “How drug dealer loses home due to drug pedaling, causes family to suffer.”

  • Shawn

    @Common

    It doesn’t sound like we’re dealing a significant dealer who bought his home on drug money. And certainly in a just society, conviction should be required before seizure.
    It was just last year that a city in Texas got hit in court for extorting seizures, even threatening children. Policing for profit does exist and is a growing danger to honest citizens.

  • Keith

    Good lord, i knew the comments would come out about how it’s his fault. It’s his fault, if he actually did this(phili PD is a joke), that he got jail time. Taking his house is just another organized crime tactic used to enrich a corrupt entity. No due process, no honorable intentions, just plain old fucking strong arm robbery.

  • Jason Free 123

    Her fucking husband was selling drugs out of the house. He was fucking convicted of it. Now she is bitching and whining. She knew he was selling drugs out of the houose. She knew what would happen. They need to take her children away from her and her so called “husband”. What a bunch of complete fucking losers. Those children don’t need to live in a drug house. He was obviously selling in front of his kids. WHat a bunch of fucking losers.

  • Public Offender

    1: She was kicked out of her home the same month the DA filed a forfeiture motion and before any determination on the forfeiture had been made by a judge.

    2: She was kicked out of her home long before a determination of guilt.

    3: The determination of guilt is in question because of the 4 corrupt cops involved in the arrest.

    4: The Philly Sheriff’s Office was raided by the FBI less than a month ago. Pursuant to a search warrant, they “removed files and other records connected to the office’s division which handles sheriff sales…” http://axisphilly.org/article/raid-on-sheriffs-office-whats-the-fbi-looking-for/

    5: Connect the dots.

  • Shawn

    @Public Offender

    That is what you get when you allow police a profit motive.

  • Common Sense

    6 million in forfeiture? PPD operating budget is 570 million. Not really all that much of a “profit” enterprise. Nice angle though. Doesn’t get far, but nice try.

    http://returnofproperty.com/law.html

  • Shawn

    @Common

    It is enough that they choose to persue the money, and seek to have control of its use.

    Forfeiture should only exist as part of a criminal case. Seizure without trial will enevitably result in innocent victims. Do you remember what Texas cops were doing last year?

  • Keith

    Common, hate to break it to you, but that is the definition of ‘profit’. After operating costs, what is left is profit. In this case, the budget is their operating costs, all seizures are therefore profit. Nice try though.

  • RadicalDude

    The police are a pirate gang. They usually use effective enough public relations to fool most of the public-school educated populations into thinking they are doing some sort of public service in the way of crime prevention. They are actually a parasitic and predatory criminal enterprise in their own right, though.

  • Jason Free 123

    Right away people start calling the PD criminals and making bullshit up. Guess what, she and her husband decided to sell drugs out of the house when there were children in it. Yes, she wasn’t charged with anything but she new that is what her husband was doing. I feel sorry for the children who have to live with stupid fucking drug dealer parents.

  • John Q Public

    Its pretty bad:

    Sam Leino was ultimately convicted on a single charge of possessing prescription drugs with intent to distribute. For that, his wife and their three children are homeless. Welcome to the wonderful world of asset forfeiture.

    From the Philadelphia City Paper:

    The Philadelphia DA brings 300 to 600 real-estate forfeiture cases per year, and thousands of cases against small amounts of cash seized in police stops that sometimes, but not always, result in arrests — together bringing nearly $6 million into its coffers annually.

    In a series of reports for City Paper [“The Cash Machine,” Nov. 29, 2012] and ProPublica, this reporter has documented how the Philadelphia DA has made civil forfeiture into a vast, unaudited revenue stream, profiting from an upside-down legal process through which the DA has the power to bleed property owners dry of financial resources and imperil homeowners with minimal or no evidence of criminal wrongdoing.

    Sandra Leino’s is just one of these stories — but one that casts in sharp relief the difference between the way the District Attorney’s Office describes the goals of its forfeiture programs to the public and the way those targeted by forfeiture experience it.

    The Philadelphia DA characterizes its forfeiture program not as a revenue generator but as a public service: depriving criminals of the spoils of their crimes, abating “nuisance properties” that terrorize neighborhoods and, according to a recent statement, working to “establish responsible property ownership.” But Sandra Leino’s story paints a very different picture of how the DA uses forfeiture — less like a scalpel than a battering ram.

    Because the owner of a piece of property — be it land, cash, a car, or a home — needn’t even be charged to lose the property under forfeiture laws, the Leinos had already lost their home by the time Sam Leino was convicted on that single charge. (Despite the conviction, the family maintains that he possessed the drugs for personal use after an automobile accident.) In fact, the government can actually freeze your assets before any proceedings begin, making it difficult to hire legal representation for either your criminal trial, or to go to court to reclaim your property. In this case, the Philadelphia DA’s office actually evicted Sandra Leino and her children from their home, rendering them homeless until a relative took them in.

    The office of Philadelphia District Attorney R. Seth Williams eventually withdrew the claim on the Leino home, but only after the family had fallen behind on their mortgage payments and the bank foreclosed, meaning that the home was no longer theirs for the government to take from them.

    According to the Institute for Justice, a libertarian public interest law firm that has been challenging asset forfeiture laws across the country, Pennsylvania’s law is among the worst in America.

    Law enforcement agencies can forfeit property based on a mere “preponderance of the evidence,” which is a much less stringent standard than the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard used in criminal convictions.

    Plus, property owners have to prove their innocence, reversing both the burden of proof and centuries of jurisprudence. In other words, in civil forfeiture proceedings, property owners actually have fewer protections than accused criminals.

    Not only that, under Pennsylvania state law, police can keep 100 percent of all proceeds seized from civil forfeiture. In fact, the Philadelphia DA has raked in more than $6 million a year in civil forfeiture proceeds.

    Most of this policing for profit is from cash seizures. But “the average amount of cash seized by Philadelphia police was $550 — hardly the proceeds of a Pablo Escobar or a Walter White.” No wonder a Pennsylvania judge has lambasted civil forfeiture as “little more than state-sanctioned theft.”

    That kind of perverse incentive seems like an invitation for corruption.

    And wouldn’t you know it . . .

    Four of the police officers who surveilled and arrested Sam Leino are among a group of six narcotics officers whose credibility has been effectively dismissed by the DA’s Office itself after allegations were made in open court that they were part of a drug-dealing ring within the Philadelphia Police Department.

    The DA has been systematically dropping cases brought by these officers, including about 285 prosecutions mostly related to felony drug arrests. But Sam Leino’s conviction still stands. How many times the DA’s forfeiture unit has seized property based on the testimony of these officers is not presently clear.

    According to the City Paper, Leino’s conviction was based on police officers who testified they “observed Sam handing over small objects in exchange for money outside the house.” It isn’t clear if the specific officers dismissed for corruption were the same officers who testified against Leino. But it also isn’t difficult to see how a policy that basically amounts to legalized theft could quickly undermine respect for the rule of law among the public servants we ask to enforce it.

    The author of the City Paper piece, Isaiah Thompson, then points to more stories from Philadelphia in an article for the Pacific Standard.

    In October 2009, police raided the house and charged her son, Andrew, then 24, with selling eight packets of crack cocaine to an undercover informant. (Upon entering the house, police reported finding unused packets, though not drugs, in a rear bedroom.) Rochelle Bing was not present and was not accused of a crime. Yet she soon received a frightening letter from the Philadelphia district attorney’s office. Because Andrew had sold the drugs from inside his mother’s house, a task force of law enforcement officials moved to seize Bing’s house. They filed a court claim, quickly approved, that gave Bing just 30 days to dissuade a judge from granting “a decree of forfeiture” that would give the DA’s office title to the property. Bing was devastated.

    “For me to lose my home,” she recalled recently, “for them to take that from me, knowing I had grandchildren—that would have hurt me more than anything.” And so Bing resolved to do what whatever was necessary to keep the house.

    She had no idea how long and how difficult that fight would be . . .

    Other similar cases reviewed by ProPublica include an elderly widow, two sisters who shared a house, a waitress and hospital worker caring for two children, and a mother of three whose family wound up homeless. All stemmed from drug charges brought against a family member.

    The cost of hiring an attorney to win the money back is well over that average seizure of $550. According to Thomas, one family was forced to go to court 17 times in an effort to win their house back. Fortunately, that particular family had an attorney who had agreed to take their case for free. But that attorney also told Thomas that had he charged them his regular rate, the bill would have exceeded the value of the house. And because these are civil proceedings, in many states indigent property owners have no right to a court-appointed attorney.

    All of which means there’s really no recourse for most people facing forfeiture of their property. Which may be why, according to author Isaiah Thompson, of the 2,000 claims filed in the city between 2008 and 2012, only 30 saw the property returned to its owner. To be fair, in a high percentage of those cases, that may well be because the owner was indeed guilty. But most people who lose property from civil asset forfeiture are never criminally charged.

    Civil asset forfeiture also provides a strong incentive to profile, pull over, and harass motorists, then violate their Fourth Amendment rights with car searches based on alerts from unreliable drug-sniffing dogs. (I’ve written here at HuffPost about police agencies who have used drug dog alerts to actually seize bail money brought in by the family of the accused.) It’s one of the driving forces behind the mass militarization of America’s police forces. It’s really one of the most awful, destructive, unfair policies to be spit out by the modern drug war. And that’s saying something. There’s been a hell of a lot of competition.

  • ovator

    @Jason Free,

    Your a FUCKING IDIOT!!! GET A LIFE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • YankeeFan

    John,

    I am not for drug sales or the legalization but these types of stories cause me to go against law enforcement. Seizing property and removing people with no charges being filed or them ever being criminally convicted is beyond words. It shows just how big of a group of whores police can be. Look at the part where it talks about the credibility of these drug officers. That’s the story right there. Corrupt officers will screw things up in a big way like these 4 assholes have done. Four sworn officers maybe responsible for hundreds of dismissals. Look at the comment by common sense. See how he skirts the issue of corrupt officers. Everything they were involved in is now suspect as it should be. How many innocent people have been fucked over because of these horribly bad policies.

    Below is the Rochelle Bing story:

    http://www.opposingviews.com/i/news/innocent-homeowners-forced-forfeit-their-homes-due-others-misdeeds#

    You can look this one up but remember the story of the waitress that had a 13k tip left to her. She believed it was for her as it was at her table. She turned in the money and was told after a period of waiting she can claim it. She did the waiting and when she went to claim it, she was told it had been seized as drug monies as it tested for contraband. Public community pressure forced the honest, sworn, upstanding, there for the community police to give her back was was rightfully here. They tried legalized theft. Go look it up and you will see what I mean.

    When it comes to money, cops are whores too and screwing people over like this Rochelle Bing and hundreds of others is wrong in every way, shape or form!

  • Shawn

    @JQP

    “Because the owner of a piece of property — be it land, cash, a car, or a home — needn’t even be charged to lose the property under forfeiture laws”

    That there is the first practice that should end. If you can’t convict, then you obviously don’t have enough to justify taking property.

    ” In fact, the government can actually freeze your assets before any proceedings begin, making it difficult to hire legal representation for either your criminal trial, or to go to court to reclaim your property. ”
    A common issue. A judge tried to do that to Zimmerman, denying him the resources to mount a defense.

    “The cost of hiring an attorney to win the money back is well over that average seizure of $550. According to Thomas, one family was forced to go to court 17 times in an effort to win their house back. Fortunately, that particular family had an attorney who had agreed to take their case for free. But that attorney also told Thomas that had he charged them his regular rate, the bill would have exceeded the value of the house. And because these are civil proceedings, in many states indigent property owners have no right to a court-appointed attorney.”
    When ever these forfeitures some up, the cops always claim you can just take it to court and get your property back. They gloss over the difficulties, HAVING TO PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE, and the costs.

    Anyone who supports this practice is pissing all over the Constitution. Forfeiture should only be allowed after a conviction.

  • John Q Public

    I never said I supported it. I said it was bad. I just showed that there is a few examples of this in Philly. I think that there should be a lot more evidence than just one bad family member doing dumb things. This should be closely looked at by politicians to get this law changed.

  • Jason Free 123

    ovator – Another bullshit fucking response from a burnt out activist.

    Annonypussy yancuntfan Dahmer – The only real whore is you and the sheep and chickens you rape. By the way fuckface, you are wrong about the waitress story. The money was given to the police because it is very uncommon for someone to leave a tip like that. But she got the fucking money back you fucking jackass and it had nothing to do with the community. It’s amazing how you leave that part out. You are a cunt liar. You have been caught again. Your bipolar disease is really fucking you up asshole cunt

    All activists lie all the time everytime.

  • John Q Public

    A waitress who was given a $12,000 tip by a patron, only to lose it days later to a police drug investigation, has finally been declared the rightful owner of the cash.

    Stacy Knutson, a waitress at the Fryn’ Pan restaurant in Moorhead, Minn., said she was working a late-night shift when a patron left a to-go container from another restaurant on the table. Knutson followed the woman to her car, offering to give the box back, but the customer refused.

    “No I am good, you keep it,” the woman said, according to court papers filed on Knutson’s behalf.

    Knutson opened the container when she returned to the restaurant and found $12,000 cash in rolled up bills. Worried about where the money came from, Knutson contacted the local police.

    “It caused suspicion with her what the history of this money was. It’s always a good thing to contact the police department — we’re not making it any worse, we’re here to help,” said Moorhead police spokesman Lt. Tory Jacobson.

    Knutson, in her lawsuit, noted that she did “the right thing” by turning the money over to police despite having a five children she was helping to support on her salary as a waitress.

    “We do everything we can to make ends meet, but often times everything is not covered,” she said in the lawsuit. “Even though I desperately needed the money as my husband and I have five children, I feel I did the right thing by calling the Moorhead Police.”

    The Moorhead police opened an investigation to try and find where the money came from, Jacobson said, noting first that the money gave off an overwhelming smell of marijuana.

    “Immediately as a human, you’re able to smell marijuana on the money, so to confirm, we have a canine do a confirmation sniff. The dog gave a positive indication of narcotics residue, and so now investigators are looking into a narcotics investigation. We have to seize the money and put it into evidence,” Jacobson explained.

    While the police seized and investigated the money, Knutson and her attorney began wondering when Knutson would ever get the money back. The police told Knutson that if no one had claimed the money within 90 days, it would be hers, so after 90 days, they began asking the police to hand the cash over.

    “After 90 days, they were inquiring how do we get money, and as police, we’re informing them that it’s drug-seized money, so there’s a process for us to be able to get that released, and that process is court,” Jacobson said.

    Knutson and her attorney were advised to file a lawsuit for the money so that a judge could grant the police department permission to turn the $12,000 back over to Jacobson, the rightful owner. Knutson filed the suit earlier this week, and with pressure from the police department to hear the case quickly, a judge ruled Thursday that the money was hers.

    By 2 p.m. Thursday, Jacobson was once again in possession of her $12,000 tip, and the Moorhead police investigation of the drug money was considered a closed case.

    Knutson and her attorney did not return calls for comment.

    “The right thing was done,” Jacobson said today.

  • Shawn

    @JQP

    “I never said I supported it. I said it was bad.”
    Wasn’t accusing you. That was just a blanket statement.

    ” I think that there should be a lot more evidence than just one bad family member doing dumb things.”
    Should require a conviction of an actual crime. And prove enough money changed hands to justify the confiscated item as drug profits. Selling a couple pills, and I doubt this guy sold many, doesn’t justify seizing the house.
    The ugliest forfeiture lately was in Texas, where parents were extorted to sign over money or the kids would be handed to DCF. Of course any parent, no matter how innocent, won’t take that chance.

    Unfortunately, government at all levels is money hungry. If they see a source, they jump on it. Look at the games played with redlight cameras. A good idea, done carefully. But money hungry governments destroyed the concept by trickery to generate more offenders, meaning more profits.

  • John Q Public

    Red light cameras are the devil. Glad we don’t have those in my neck of the woods. Mostly the police don’t run those. Its usually a private contractor who can shove tickets down people’s throats with no form of redress or appeal. Its garbage and merely a revenue generator. I agree that there should be a conviction before a forfeiture can take place. If the person is found innocent, then a lawsuit would be in order, and rightfully so.

  • Shawn

    @Jason sheep lover

    “The only real whore is you and the sheep and chickens you rape. By the way fuckface, you are wrong about the waitress story. The money was given to the police because it is very uncommon for someone to leave a tip like that. But she got the fucking money back you fucking jackass”

    Of course a tip like that is odd, but it isn’t a crime. There are loaded people who want to help less fortunate.
    Care to provide evidence to that claim? Every article on that one I ever saw had the police declaring it drug money. Until enough people bitched, they had no intentions of giving it back.

  • Public Offender

    @ Jason Free 123:

    Did you know your comments are a violation of at least one Virginia statute?

    VA Code § 18.2-152.7:1. Harassment by computer; penalty.

    If any person, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, or harass any person, shall use a computer or computer network to communicate obscene, vulgar, profane, lewd, lascivious, or indecent language, or make any suggestion or proposal of an obscene nature, or threaten any illegal or immoral act, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-152.7C1

    What you post is not protected speech. Either add to the discussion/debate, or be a troll somewhere else. The statute of limitations on a misdemeanor here is 1 year. I wonder how many actionable posts you’ve made in the last year?

  • John Q Public

    It would cost way more money to try and track someone down than a misdemeanor fine would be. Not only that, I doubt any Virginia DA would waste the personnel and resources to extradite nationwide for a misdemeanor. You’d better be prepared to prefer federal charges due to it being an interstate offense. I doubt the feds would waste their time either. And, you’d still have to prove who the offender is in court. What if he’s accessing a public computer? If the criminal suit gets thrown out, be prepared to deal with a civil suit in return.

  • Public Offender

    I’m not talking about tracking him down; I’m letting him know he’s violating the law.

  • YankeeFan

    Jason,

    The police tried to keep the money that was given under a false pretense, asshole! The police were inundated with calls and negative press about their attempt. Funny how you ignore the fact, dirtbag, they tried to take the rather large and unusual tip with the claim in smelled of contraband. Guess what, turd, most money in circulation has some drug residue on it and they tried to use that shit as an excuse to take the cash. Do you have issues, even for a troll, when it comes to reading comprehension?

  • YankeeFan

    Police to Let Waitress Keep $12,000 Tip

    By Douglas Stanglin, USA TODAY
    April 6, 2012 Updated Apr 6, 2012 at 12:40 PM PDT

    A Minnesota waitress will get to keep a very generous $12,000 tip that was initially seized by police.

    Stacy Knutson, of Moorhead, Minn., says the money was left behind by a woman in a takeout box at a restaurant where she works. She says she followed the customer outside and tried to return it, but the woman told her, “No, I am good, you keep it.”

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    Although Knutson says she believes the money was intended as an anonymous gift to help her family, she notified police about the wads of $100s, $50s, $20s and $10s wrapped in rubber bands.

    After initially saying she could keep it, police later seized it as part of a drug investigation after authorities said a police dog detected the odor of drugs on the bag of cash.

    That caused such an uproar when the story went national that authorities have now changed their mind, the News Tribune reports.

    Assistant Clay County Attorney Michelle Lawson says the money cannot be tied to a criminal investigation and that Knutson will get a check for the $12,000, the newspaper says.

    To read more about this story, CLICK HERE.

    I forgot, Free, it was a national story and it caused some level of national uproar. Regardless, they tried to take what was here to begin with. You also ignore the fact she did the right and decent thing and those that claim to protect the community, tried to take what was here. It is all right there in black and white.

  • John Q Public

    PD, I don’t think he really cares.

  • John Q Public

    YF, I beat you to the story. ;)

  • YankeeFan

    John,

    Yes, you did! Remember, I mentioned it first though. My only point with the story was to point out when it comes to money, the police get greedy eyes too!

  • Dr Kranknstein

    I think that an asset seizure need to be held off until a conviction is obtained. Other that that I have zero issue with houses, cars, phones, etc etc being taken from CONVICTED drug dealers.

    This story is sad but the simple fact is he was selling his scripts and got busted. Prescription meds are some seriously bad shit. I have seen too many of my friends and acquaintances go down the shit tube on them. I have zero sympathy for script med dealers. This lady is lucky I didn’t have a say…They kids would have gone to DCF and she would have been named an accessory because there is no way she can say she didn’t know he was doing it.

  • RadicalDude

    “Public Offender says:
    September 11, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    I’m letting him know he’s violating the law.”

    I already tried explaining this to him several times, it just seems to egg him on more.

  • Public Offender

    Well, Dude, it means he is one of those “criminals” he so despises…

  • RadicalDude

    I know, I am not convinced JF 123 is even a real person. I think he might be some sort of Andy Kaufman/Tony Clifton type of prank character invented to exasperate people so he can sit back and laugh at the consternation and exasperation. I mean, look at his tagline “Ron Paul says activists lie all the time every time.” He’s accusing people of lying, yet ironically he blatantly lies in most of his posts. I kind of think some of the stuff he says is funny sometimes, because of its outrageousness and ridiculousness, but a lot of it is way out of line. I don’t know though, maybe it’s not a joke, maybe he really thinks way for real. Either way it’s pretty demented.

  • Public Offender

    @ Dr. K:

    Do thieves, robbers, forgers, con men, or embezzlers have their houses or cars seized? Presumably, their houses or cars could have been financed with the proceeds of their criminal enterprises.

    The problem is police benefit from property seizures, giving them an incentive to seize as much property as possible.

    I have also seen firsthand the damage drugs, prescription or otherwise, do to people. Let’s say this was a legitimate conviction, despite the fact 4 corrupt cops were associated with the arrest and the Philly Sheriff’s Office was raided by the FBI.

    Is ruining more lives the solution to the problem of drugs ruining lives? And why do drugs ruin lives? Often, a state issued license the only difference between criminals and doctors.

    Does having health insurance and a licensed drug dealer make the procurement and use of drugs okay? In other words, is it okay because it’s legal?

    Have you considered the incentives doctors and psychiatrists have for prescribing drugs?

    The government has declared war on drugs, poverty, and terror. Have you noticed a decline in any of the aforementioned?

    Property forfeitures may have started with good intention and with a legitimate purpose. But as all things that start with good intentions and legitimate purposes, temptation, corruption, and greed take over the process.

  • YankeeFan

    RD,

    He is a comic for sure. He doesn’t get to me at all. You can almost write his comments each time. His comment about me needing to prove to him that the military is under civilian authority was laugh out loud funny. That’s basic civics and American Government. It was so obvious a troll comment that all one should do is shake their head. No, he is a real person with 1 set mission and that is to troll.

    He is nothing but a walking and talking, on purpose, contradiction designed to wear people out!

  • Public Offender

    @ Dude, I just wish he was more imaginative… Enough already with the goats!

  • Jason Free 123

    Annonypussy yancuntfan Dahmer – Bullshit. The money was turned over to the police for an investigation. She got the money back. She filed the right paper work and got it back after it was determined that the money wasn’t made from drugs or other crimes. Let it the fuck go asshole.

    RadicalDude strikes again – You are a fucking annonypussy. You don’t use your real name and I do. I have caught you in a number of lies you stupid cunt. You accuse me of lying then you turn around and tell me I’m lying. You are a fake and a fraud. You say my name isn’t Jason Free, guess what asshole, it is. You are obviously too fucking stupid to understand that. At least I am man enough to use my real name. How about you? Oh wait, you aren’t a man. You are an annonypussy keyboard warrior.You are a liar and a fraud. Are you going to sue me now? You haven’t sued anyone and you really need to get a more recent out dated garge sale law book. Fucking loser.

    Ron Paul says, “All activists lie all the time everytime”.

  • YankeeFan

    Jason, they claimed it was drug monies. There is no mention of an investigation anywhere. Just their claim is was drug related and they planned to keep it. When the realized they couldn’t tie it to drugs the relented. Did you read the part of them wanting to offer her a 1000 dollar reward? You seemed to have missed that in your desire to troll hard.

    To simplify for your troll mind. She turned it in, was told to wait, went back to claim it and was then told it was drug monies because it tested positive for whatever. She then threatened to sue and with community outrage, they decided to give it back. Go ahead and keep trolling though. You are a funny piece of shit!

  • YankeeFan

    Stop being a liar, your name isn’t Jason Free! You are a loser troll that has changed it 3 times now with this current name being the 4th!

  • Jason Free 123

    Annonypussy Yancuntfan Dahmer – Again your lies continue over and over. It looks like the bipolar disorder is really kicking in. How many sheep and chickens are you raping a week now? You lie about my name. I have proven you have lied many many times yet you continue on with the lying. You are lying about the money part. The PD was never going to keep it asshole. Those words are yourse you fucking cunt. The community was not in an outrage. again those are your fucking words. You see, you have been proven a liar again and again. I don’t think you know how to tell the truth you cunt faggot. The next time you meet with your case manager, Be sure to ask for help to stop lying. I think for shits and giggles, I’m going to investigate your bullshit claim of being disabled and we will see if we can get that disability check stopped. It wouldn’t be hard to do.

    Ron Paul says, “All activists lie all the time everytime”.

  • YankeeFan

    The story says otherwise, Idiot! That’s why she was offered a 1k Reward and it also says the money was going to be seized as it was drug monies. Please read before you troll. It’s 1 thing to troll, It’s another to be inconsistent!

    After initially saying she could keep it, police later seized it as part of a drug investigation after authorities said a police dog detected the odor of drugs on the bag of cash.

    That caused such an uproar when the story went national that authorities have now changed their mind, the News Tribune reports.

    Assistant Clay County Attorney Michelle Lawson says the money cannot be tied to a criminal investigation and that Knutson will get a check for the $12,000, the newspaper says.

    Also, it isn’t a good troll game to keep saying the same thing over and over hoping that is it is true. See part 1? Where a dog detected the odor of drugs on the money! See part 2 where it caused a community uproar? Not my words but the news reporting. Troll away but do not lie. That’s most unbecoming.

    Also, you investigate. I will let you know when I start to care! LOL

  • YankeeFan

    RD,

    You are right about this idiot. If it wasn’t for his atmosphere on here this site would be very dull and boring!

  • RadicalDude

    I have to say JF 123 would make for an interesting TV personality. One of those characters you love to hate.

  • Ariel

    My first comment is: Yeaaa, Yankee Fan, you go man, you go cuz you tore them all up. My second is the first was sincere.

  • YankeeFan

    Ariel,

    How goes things?

  • Ariel

    YF,

    You were really on point this thread. You gave no quarter.

    As for me, things go and things come, often at the same time. Life has it’s issues, in mine, like others, some are insurmountable. My last remaining non-diabetic child may have just gone Type 1 at her 18th. That would make all three Type 1. It’s painful to a parent, if only because of what I know they will go through in life.

    So far here, I’m just having fun being a “know-it-all” by holding people to their own words. Heaven forbid they ever figure out they can do it back at me, without all the naming, labeling, or pigeon-holing. They (that faceless they) have no idea how that n,l, and p-h short circuits their reasoning. But if they did, then I would face fighting real arguments well thought out. Instead of a slew of fallacies poorly thought out…

  • Dr Kranknstein

    PD

    I agree with everything you said…I just have a special hatred for people who peddle prescriptions. That includes the fucking pill mill doctors. Like I said far TOOOOOOO many people I know have had serious issues with them. Marriages ruined, kids parentless, jail time etc etc just bad JuJu all the way around. Especially here in Florida where there is a pill mill every 5 blocks or so hiding under the guise of Pain Management Clinic.

  • Ariel

    Dr. K,

    My spouse is in chronic pain. If the doctor under prescribes, she has to suffer,; if he over prescribes, she has extra when she has really bad days. She doesn’t abuse it.

    Given that Florida is one of the seven states with the highest median age, I wonder how many of those Pain Management Clinics are actually prescription mills.

    It isn’t simple like the Feds make it to be.

  • Ariel

    YF,

    “Also, it isn’t a good troll game to keep saying the same thing over and over hoping that is it is true. ” Actually that was a technique used much earlier in the 20th Century, but it wasn’t about hoping it true but by making it true through argumentum ad populum.

    We have a Constitutional Republic to stop the power of ideologues who claim they’re right because a majority agree with them. Caesar Julius rose to power how?

  • Jason Free 123

    Annonypussy Yancuntfan Dahmer strikes again. I have read the article when it first came out. You fucking bullshit lies continue on and on and one. YOu get caught over and over then when you are found out you start trying to get allies by befriending other people on this board including those who can’t stand you. You truly are a stupid pathetic fuck. Keep it up, I enjoy watching a total fuck up liar make a fool out of himself.

    Ron Paul says, “All activists lie all the time everytime”.

  • YankeeFan

    Ariel,

    I agree it was a popular technique but in this idiot’s case it’s a bad troll game. RD has it perfect when he says he plays the stupid game while trolling to exasperate someone. Look at his “show me the law that says you don’t have to show I.D.” or this story. It was clear the police tried to keep it. The had a dog smell it and it alerted so they took it for keeps and offered the waitress a 1k tip. She threatened to sue and they decided that the negative press wasn’t worth it and turned it over. Hell, on another commentary, he tried the, prove the military is under civilian authority. I do admit that was a comical troll line.

    You can see with his trolling positions, he trolls on topics where he has no way to defense against the facts. The fact the U.S. Constitution spells out who is in charge of the military or even that the FF’s were not big fans of standing armies doesn’t matter. If he can troll anything to try and exasperate someone, he will. Doesn’t bother me as I consider him a sideshow piece of shit and nothing more!

  • Jason Free 123

    Anjnonypussy Yancuntfan Dahmer is at it again. Your bipolar disease seems to be catching up with you. You are sitting on this website 24/7 again. By the way. You lied about the lady who received the 13K tip. I proved you wrong and you continue on. I asked you to show me the law that says you don’t have to show an ID to a police officer when requested. You lied and never showed anything of the sort. Since you never seem to talk about the videos or articles you are a troll. A sheep fucking chicken raping troll. You are obviously ripping the American tax payer off with your bullshit disability claims. I beleive I am going to do some investigating and we will see what we can do about that. I’m sure I could get it taken away because you have been lying about your disablitly. You could be working instead of troll copblock 24/7 you fucking loser

    Ron Paul says, “All activists lie all the time everytime”.

  • YankeeFan

    You could be working instead of troll copblock 24/7 you fucking loser

    So says the idiot labeled a troll by copblock! You investigate the shit coming out of your ears first, then get back to me, asswipe!

  • YankeeFan

    I asked you to show me the law that says you don’t have to show an ID to a police officer when requested

    So, if I don’t show the law that says I don’t, what is the charge going to be?

    Your question proves me right. There has to be a law in order for me to be charged for breaking it, moron! No law requiring me means no charges for breaking a non existent law. In your eagerness to troll yOu proved me right, dildo!..LOL Thank you for playing!

  • YankeeFan

    Ariel,

    Also, see the troll use contradictions in his trolling. I mean, he accuses people of being anonymous but has posted under 4 different names. Classic troll position. Also the troll talks serious shit and calls others keyboard warriors. Lastly, talks shit about someone being on copblock all day when he hits EVERY topic, even the ones advertising some radio/podcast. All text book troll tatics. So far he is the only one I have ever seen labeled a troll directly by a moderator of this site. Very comical!

  • John Q Public

    YF,
    Article 2, Section 2, Clause 1 of the constitution. ;)

  • John Q Public

    Under Clause 6, the President also is responsible for commissioning all officers too.

  • Jason Free 123

    Annonypussy Yancuntfan Dahmer – You have been proven wrong over and over yet you continue on like someone is actually listening or cares. Looks like your bipolar disease is really kicking up now. The paranoia is setting in and soon you will crash into a dismal depression. It must suck to know that is going to happen for the rest of your life. You sit on cuntblock 24 hours a day just waiting for that chance to write something down making you believe you are something important but then no one comments back to you. That must really let the wind out of your sails. Oh well, you will just go out and sodomize sheep and chickens to make yourself feel important and special. Yeah, your special all right you fucking freak.

    Ron Paul says, “All activists lie all the time everytime”.

  • certain

    Why don’t they seize slappy’s goats? Bestiality is a crime, and the fucking goats would be happy.

    And slaps, I wouldn’t talk about haunting this site. If it weren’t for all the people calling you an animal raping psychopathic douchebag, nobody would be responding to your posts either. You fucking animal raping psychopathic douchebag.

  • YankeeFan

    Certain,

    That’s the beauty of his trolling. He responds to EVERY topic, talks in contradictions and lies. It is a troll tactic. Call others anonymous while changing names 4 times. Says others spend to much time on here but makes sure to comment every topic with his usual dose of troll bullshit. All troll, all the time1 It’s the comic relief we need here.

  • YankeeFan

    Left out the fact he thinks this site is all bullshit but wants to make sure we all see his garbage. For someone who seems to think activists lie all the time, he sure makes sure to let us all see his trolling on an activist site. He is really a pathetic piece of shit! Remember, it took copblock 2 weeks or so to label him as a troll.

  • Ariel

    YF,

    I was in on the infamous “show me a law that says you don’t have to show an ID” and regret missing military isn’t under civilian control. However, I don’t reply to him anymore, though I may write about him in the context of trolling. I see no reason to reply.

  • YankeeFan

    Ariel,

    I do only because he is half entertaining. On the military thing, it was a discussion about outside agencies that have control over others in the context of police that police their own. I said even the military has to answer to civilian authority. May not be an everyday lower level thing but generals have to answer to the Secretary of defense. Who in turn answers to the president. The resident idiot responded with prove that civilians are in charge of the military. The id thing and the military thing are his ways to try and exasperate someone. It’s so obvious a troll that one should only shake their head. I said go read the constitution!

  • Jason Free 123

    Annonypussy yancuntfan Dahmer – Speaks again. Did your mommy promise to show you her pussy if you continue to spout off your bullshit? How’s the sheep and chicken raping going? I posted videos of you and that fuck up certain raping farm animals and neither one of you denied it. I must be getting to you because you continue to spout off about me. Looking at some of the time stamps one multiple articals I see you are still staying up all night trying to look for friends on cuntblock. I guess you can do that when you are mentally ill with bipolar disease and obviously no life. When does the depression kick in for you? I know it’s coming around the corner very soon. I guess you have to go off your meds at least once a year so you can continue to get that government check. What a fucking loser chicken fucker.

    BOOM Direct hit

    Ron Paul says, “All activists lie all the time everytime”.

  • YankeeFan

    Shit for brains,

    And did your daddie promise to let you suck his duck if you troll every topic? If so, you better hurry and respond to the one of the on the front page you didn’t troll as of yet!

  • certain

    Slaps, you’re wired loose, dude. On this post – I commented twice, counting this one. Slaps posted – 9 times, ladies and gentlemen, 9 freaking times. Mostly his usual spewage.

    You fucking animal raping psychopathic troll. And slaps, I don’t even feel the need to deny your bestiality vid posts. Since you don’t have the slightest clue what I look like, why should I waste my breath? Besides, everybody know you made those vids slaps, just by all of the grunting. Oh yeah, it’s spelled “article”. So I guess I should call you a fucking ignorant animal raping psychopathic troll. You playgarageasizing bitch.

  • Jason Free 123

    Annonypussy yancuntfan Dahmer – Hilarious, I told you you would be trolling these pages waiting for a response. I’m sure you will do it again. You are one fucking bipolar piece of shit. You sit on cuntblock 24 hours a day 7 days per week. You really are a fucking loser.

    Annonypussy certain – Hilarious!! Iv’e seen you post twice that much on other postings. You are a fcuking goat ass raping chicken raping mother fucker. You won’t use your real name because you are too much of a coward. Those videos I posted of you getting caught fucking goats and other barnyard animals came from your alcoholic mother. Those videos have proven you are a fucking degenrate. Millions of people saw those videos of you getting caught for fucking goats and other barnyard animals. You even admit you don’t deny those videos were of you. Now you have to live with what you have done. You need to be accountable for your actions. Since you weren’t, I posted the videos because you need to be held accountable. Now you are being held accountable. Since you will more than likely bitch and piss your pants just rememeber, those videos hold you accountable.

    Ron Paul says, “All activists lie all the time everytime”.

  • John Q Public

    Actually most Army generals answer to the Army Chief Of Staff (Army General), who answers to the Secretary of the Army (civilian), who answers to the Secretary of Defense (civilian), who answers to the President. You get the point though.

  • Ariel

    YF,

    A troll is a troll is a troll. It wins by claiming “winning”. No matter what proof you show it it isn’t proof [in the case of the "Stop and Identify", none of course showed you didn't have to show your ID if a cop asked, only that you had to give your true name by stating it]. There are subtle and very intelligent trolls, but not here. The military and civilian control won’t be its last moronic challenge.

    JQP is likely right and Slappy Jason Adam Free Miller 123 has broken laws across a number of states by its comments on this blog.

  • YankeeFan

    Ariel,

    Nope, he isn’t to smart as a troll. He is just a stupid piece of dogshit loser. Probably some fat fuck retard sitting in his mommies basement somewhere. This one is a walking, talking contradiction and liar on purpose. All designed to frustrate and exasperate someone. That is his troll technique. The ID, the military and this story about the woman who turned in the cash and the police had a dog sniff it and tried to seize it. Changing names 4 times while accusing others for being anonymous. Lastly, claiming others spend too much time on here when he responds to EVERY topic and usually first all with the same lines. Look at the main 8 as an example. Even the ones that are advertisements for pod-casts and such. He trolls with his usual like he has done now and is the first one to comment.

    I always thought that common sense was a troll to an extent. At least he will have intelligent conversation if you engage him and it is honest debate. His trolling is funny and in many cases warranted as many topics here on this site are just stupid. This moron could learn a thing or 3 from him. I think even if there was an ignore button next to his name of the day, I wouldn’t hit ignore just so I can see his rantings!

  • certain

    Actually slaps, I said I don’t feel any need to deny. If you were just a couple of IQ points higher, you might be able to grasp the difference.

    And I would be willing to bet that somewhere, in some state or county, you have broken laws by posting those vids. Somebody should look into it.

  • Jason Free 123

    Annonypussy certain – I haven’t broken any laws. That is what freaks you out the most. You haven’t denied those videos are of you because they are true. Why would I lie? What would be the point? It was your $2 whore of a mother who sent them to me and asked me to post them on cuntblock. She said she was tired of you tracking goat shit and other barnyard animal shit through her house. She says she has to keep buying you underwear because you continually leave them on the goats. Are you going to deny that? You are a real sick bastard.

    Annonypussy yancuntfan – Man, you are up all night commenting on this website. Oh well, what can you expect from a troll who is bilking the tax payer with false claims that you are disabled. that way you can get disability. You sit on this site just waiting for me to comment about something. Within minutes, you are typing. Just so you know, I never comment past 8:00 pm. That should help you sleep a little better. It won’t be real long now before the depressive crash sets in. Those videos of you fucking barnyard animals were sent by certain’s mom. Keep the lies coming annonypussy coward.

    Ron Paul says, “All activists lie all thetime everytime”.

  • Ariel

    YF,

    “I always thought that common sense was a troll to an extent. At least he will have intelligent conversation if you engage him and it is honest debate.”

    Which is why he isn’t a troll, just contrary.

  • Ghost

    Marked be