Undercover Narcotics Officer Exposed: Det. Charles I. Newton

Published On June 2, 2011 | By Ademo Freeman | Articles

This post was written by Ian Freeman, the host of Free Talk Live, and originally posted to FreeKeene.com

Thanks first to Bob “Weeda Claus” Constantine for having the courage to take his cannabis growing case to trial. Bob’s courage made what happened today possible. Because Bob took his case to trial, the state had to call its undercover agents to the stand and despite their desperate efforts to keep them away from cameras, they were still all seen personally by those of us in the courtroom. The first to testify against Bob was NH Drug Task Force detective Charles I. Newton, the most undercover-looking of them all. He looks like a pretty cool guy and if only he weren’t engaging in deception for the purposes of caging peaceful people, maybe he would be. We were unable to get a decent picture of him on the day of Bob’s trial. However, here’s what happened today:

We were going to breakfast in Newport after attending a fellow activist’s speeding ticket trial, when I noticed two cars parked drivers’ side-window-to-window in the parking lot of the Country Kitchen restaurant. The driver of the black late model Nissan Altima (we think it’s plate number 297 7758 – the 297 is for sure, not sure about the last four) looked a lot like Charles I. Newton, so I asked Ademo from Liberty on Tour if he thought that was him. He confirmed it and shouted out Charles’ name. Then Charles high-tailed it (complete with screeching tires) out of the parking lot. We consulted the young man in the red car and informed him that he’d been talking to an undercover cop. At least in this instance, we saved the man from going to prison. Newton had already given the young man cash in order to allegedly purchase narcotics, so the deal was almost done when we managed to intervene.

Now, if I’m recalling correctly, Newton testified during Bob’s trial that he lives in Cheshire county. Undercover officers tend to live in one place and work in others so there is a lower chance of them being recognized by locals. Thus far, we know that Newton works in Grafton and Sullivan counties, and maybe elsewhere. If it’s true that Newton lives in Cheshire county, that means there’s a chance you know him. Perhaps you grew up with him? Please post your comments below or send a private message via the Forum or via email ademo at copblock.org

I should have started recording sooner, zoomed the camera, and done better to focus on Newton’s exit, but hindsight is always 20-20. At least we were able to intervene, expose this deception artist, and save a young man from being caged. Special thanks to Pete, Ademo, and Beau from Liberty on Tour for springing into action! Don’t expect him to continue driving the same undercover vehicle, but here’s the brief video from today, for what it’s worth:

Also, here’s a court case where Newton plays a major role in a drug bust, just to give you confirmation of who he is and how he operates. Newton’s middle initial was found in a Keene Sentinel article. What do you know about Charles I. Newton?

Here’s the number for the NH Drug Task Force if you’d like to leave them or Charles a message: 603-271-3291

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About The Author

Ademo Freeman is an advocate for a voluntary society, one where people are free to live their lives so long as they don't initiate force on others. Ademo has also been involved with other projects such as the MotorhomeDiaries.com, FreeKeene.com and LibertyOnTour.com You can get more content created by Ademo at his Facebook page and YouTube channel. Enjoy Ademo's post/work? Want to show him your gratitude, simply click here. Thanks in advance for your support, it's greatly appreciated.
  • Travis

    this is great!

  • Shigman

    So you people who are protecting drug dealers by busting undercovers are a disgrace to society. I hope the police track your sorry asses down and lock you up for years. Adam, Pete, and Jenn, I hope your asses get caught up in this shit too. You people don’t deserve to be free.

  • http://www.facebook.com/incaseyoumissedit Frank

    Someone that sells drugs to someone that wants to purchase drugs has done nothing wrong. This is a voluntary act between peaceful people.

    Someone that practices fraud in order to kidnap and imprison peaceful people has done something wrong. This is an act of aggression committed by someone who can accurately be described as a thug.

    It’s ironic that you feel the need to say “you people don’t deserve to be free” since it’s blatantly obvious from your comment — you know the one where you promote taking away people’s freedom by force — that you don’t think people deserve to be free.

  • Walter

    I’ve been telling folks for a long time that we are NOT losing the war on drugs. The war on drugs was lost YEARS ago!! Today the war on drugs is nothing more than the “Law Enforcement Officer’s Right To Work Act”. We need to stop this silly charade and do the same thing to drugs we did to illegal alcohol.

  • Monte

    From CNN (and every other news outlet today)

    “The Global Commission on Drug Policy says the war on drugs can’t be won and governments should change current drug laws”

    http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/06/02/exp.tsr.sylvester.war.on.drugs.cnn?iref=allsearch

  • Darlingnikki

    Honestly, I don’t use drugs. Not because of laws or fear of being caged, but I just don’t like them. I see nothing wrong with people using drugs as long as they do not harm anyone else. The biggest fear of people who are against legalization is that if legalized, every one will rush out and get high, ruin their lives, loose their jobs and homes.

    So in essence, the fear is that everyone is inherently irresponsible and anti drug laws protect me from ruining my life. Well, eating fast food every day until you are obese and sick, also ruins lives…but the point is, we should all be free to ruin our own lives if we so please. And don’t twist it around and claim that I’d hurt my mother by being a junkie. Thats the same selfish argument some people use when a loved one commits suicide…”What about me, they didn’t realize that I’d be sad when they did this”.

    Deception, regardless if its done by an officer of the law, or any of us, is still deception. If this dealer was force feeding oxy to babies, then yes, I’d have a problem with it.

  • akazip

    “Busting undercovers” should be an Olympic event. These people are not protecting anyone; they are here to feed the prison industrial complex.

  • Anonymous

    Darlingnikki said: “Thats the same selfish argument some people use when a loved one commits suicide…’What about me, they didn’t realize that I’d be sad when they did this.’”

    Actually, I disagree. As a person who has had two family members commit suicide, it is not the same.

    Someone doing drugs doesn’t necessarily hurt other people. Someone you know committing suicide does hurt you, especially when you miss them, grieve, and have to deal with their belongings, estates, other people who want their hands on any of their leftover money or things (for instance, there was an argument over who got a stable bell–fucking retarded) etc. It’s really tough. That hurt for a long time. I watched families fight, cry, stress over funeral costs, and a lot of other things.

    Be careful where you tread on that ice.

  • jlm

    I believe hard core drug dealers need to be taken off the streets, but its hard to separate which drugs should or shouldn’t be illegal. I don’t like the fact that these people are bring cocaine and heroin in from other states to make money. If the economy were better we might not have these problems but I no 80 year old people that sometimes have to sell their drugs just to survive, so I am not sure what is right and what is wrong but we live in a “live free or die” state and what people do in their homes should be their business…. but on the other hand I don’t want some big time drug dealer selling to my children. I think its a waste of the government’s money to keep paying these under cover people. I got a feeling Charlie won’t be working in this area for a while, I have seen him many times but I am sure I won’t see him again

  • Jerith

    Undercover police have been outed during one of those G-whatever meetings. Cops dressed as.. black blocs? Masks, holding a bolder and pointed out as an agent provocateur and caught by them pressing past a line of 65 year old adults in ties and dress shirts who were holding a line in front of the police line as a peace buffer. The undercovers had back packs and masks, but were outed by their special police only issued boots. They were gently taken down and released once they physically pushed (assaulted) past the old folks holding hands.

    Holding a boulder is the only way they can fit in? Claiming its only a prop? Right. Uh-huh.

  • http://tidewatercopwatch.blogspot.com Larry G

    Wow Shigman sounds pissed that you outed his boy……I knew a few undercovers when I worked….there undercover for a reason 90% time they can do the job because they have what it takes or should I say lack what it takes.

    most of em have sorted disciplinary histories…and likely have engaged in at sometime the very things they are now going “undercover” to stop….

    Fuck the Drug war……it failed long ago…..nothing lower than a snitch in my book…..especially a snitch busting kids for POT…..

    Your a real hero buddy….every nickel & dime bag at a time…..YOU FUCKING FAIL CI NEWTON……and its amusing that this site has punched your card……lmaoooooooooo

  • jlm38

    boy if I knew my identity was safe I could tell you so much about the NH drug task force, but they absolutely scare the hell out of me. They lie and can not be trusted, even if you think they are trying to protect you they will screw you over and I no this all to well. They as does the DA scare people into working with them and they tell you lies to protect your identity or so they say its all bull sh%t to get WHAT THEY WANT!!! I am scared just to be writing this comment because they have power and they use it to their advantage even if its not legal. How do I no I am safe writing on your post?? How do you no that the DA or the DTF doesn’t have a way to get my info?? If I knew I was safe I could tell you some stories, but I don’t no that just writing this won’t get my “or one of my family members” ass thrown in jail for whatever they decide they can prosecute you for whether its against the law or not they will find a way to get you

  • jb

    boy if I knew my identity was safe I could tell you so much about the NH drug task force, but they absolutely scare the hell out of me. They lie and can not be trusted, even if you think they are trying to protect you they will screw you over and I no this all to well. They as does the DA scare people into working with them and they tell you lies to protect your identity or so they say its all bull sh%t to get WHAT THEY WANT!!! I am scared just to be writing this comment because they have power and they use it to their advantage even if its not legal. How do I no I am safe writing on your post?? How do you no that the DA or the DTF doesn’t have a way to get my info?? If I knew I was safe I could tell you some stories, but I don’t no that just writing this won’t get my “or one of my family members” ass thrown in jail for whatever they decide they can prosecute you for whether its against the law or not they will find a way to get you

  • Phill

    Shigman is just mad because non-violent people threaten his ability to fulfill his ticket quota the PD gave him.

  • Fred

    What are you guys trying to do? Protect the criminals? Next time your house gets broken into or you get robbed, call a drug dealer and see what kind of help you get!

    I hope the cops hunt you down and throw your asses in jail. YOU GUYS SUCK!!

  • http://CopBlock.org Rob

    @ Fred: do you have any Idea how many officers sell drugs, including steroids to each other? So in essence you are all ready calling drug dealers.

    @jlm38/jb: If you would like to post something here anonymously or write a guest post for the site about the NH drug force you can open up a free hushmail.com account and send your submissions to me and I will post them for you. rob (at) copblock dot org

  • Patrick

    “…You people don’t deserve to be free.”

    You’re definition of freedom is pretty pathetic. You can take your brand of freedom and shove it up your….. You don’t deserve to call yourself an American.

  • Chris Mallory

    So Fred, what exactly is calling the police going to do if my house is broken into or I get robbed? Most of the time, they will come out, make a report and then go chase down ……….. ummmm……….a free meal at a local restaurant. Or they will put out a press release asking the citizens to “Please give us some tips”. The cops do not protect us.

  • Please Stop Breeding

    You people are pathetic.

    “An undercover cop is using deceit to put an innocent drug dealer in jail, let’s expose the cop and make the drug dealer into a saint!” Cry me a freaking river. Where is your liberal, bleeding heart when that drug dealer sells to an elementary school child? YOUR son/daughter? YOUR brother/sister?

    So you’ve had a bad experience with the police, change your diaper and move on with your life. A cops job isn’t easy, and many of you would appreciate it more if you actually knew what it was like. Corruption and bad people are everywhere, not just in police departments. When you get in a car accident, who do you think you’ll be calling? Don’t want to call a cop? Good luck with that.

    It’s comical to read some of the posts on this site. An officer went undercover to get drugs and other harmful material off of the streets. Do you have any idea how many of our military and special forces do the very same thing? Are you going to run and cry that Al Qaeda deserves to run free and kill more innocents?

    You people are on the same level as the Westboro Baptist Church.

  • jb

    @rob, I would love to tell u my story but I have been screwed by cops, drug task, and the Sullivan county DA so how do I no who I can trust and who I can’t? I am afraid they would do something to me or my family. Its pretty bad when all these people think these so called cops/DA/DTF are here to protect and serve you, because they ARE NOT!!! they will screw you over if they get the opportunity but for those of you who protect them and think they are good probably have never had to deal with them so you wouldn’t no any different. Iam not a hard core criminal, I have never been busted for drugs and have never been to jail or been convicted of more than a misdemeanor but these stupid assholes have done some shitty things to me and my family just over small offences by threatening me and my family with felony’s and years in jail just to try and get us on there side and to do their work for them “RAT” and then when over and done they still fuck us over I ABSOLUTELY HATE THESE WORTHLESS LIARS AND I AM JEOPARDIZING A LOT BY SAYING ANYTHING BAG ABOUT THESE JERKS!!!

  • http://CopBlock.org Rob

    @Please Stop Breeding “When you get in a car accident, who do you think you’ll be calling Don’t want to call a cop? Good luck with that”

    If I was in a car accident I would call my insurance company. If the car was wrecked I would call a tow truck. If I was injured I would call an ambulance. If I was stuck in the car I would call fire rescue to get me out. If I wanted to sue I would call a lawyer.

    You are right I would need a cop to fill out the paperwork, so I guess I do need them.

    “Where is your liberal, bleeding heart when that drug dealer sells to an elementary school child? ”

    Where in the world does an elementary student find enough money to support a drug habit? To be rational lets say we are talking about high school kids. Two drugs that are extremely difficult for high school kids to get are liquor and cigarettes. That is because they are controlled and regulated by the government with age restrictions. Everything else is not, so I think you are blaming the wrong people for drugs getting into the hands of young kids.

  • PabloKoh

    @Please Stop Breeding: “A cops job isn’t easy, and many of you would appreciate it more if you actually knew what it was like.” I know being a police officer’s job is not easy. We need to make it easier for them by legalizing drugs. That way they spend more man hours searching for violent criminals. Clearance rates for murder in our large cities run around 50%. Can you believe that? 50%! Half of all murderers walk away! Our police detectives should not have to deal with cannabis growers or heroin pushers. They need to be in the trenches working leads to find the dangerous people in society.

  • Please Stop Breeding

    @Rob

    It’s pretty funny that you have so many smart comments, but yet you only pick out two points from my post.

    You would be screwed without an officer when the person who hit your car runs away. Are you planning on chasing the offender down? No, you would be filming the officer doing that for you.

    And you say you’ve never heard of cases where young children take hold of drugs? You certainly need to read more news. You think that cigarettes and alcohol are difficult for high schoolers to obtain? What planet are you living on? You’d rather blame someone giving alcohol to a teen than drugs? This shows your childish intellect.

    Since you obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder (like most of your following) for police, so how about you put your plethora of free (jobless?) time into doing something productive to contribute to society? Vandalizing a police department with graffiti was a brilliant move, by the way.

    Feel free to continue turning all Law Enforcement and Military against you. I take great pride in knowing that true heroes risk their lives on a daily basis, putting their lives on the line only to protect people like you who take no responsibility for their actions and think that the world is against them.

    Grow up.

  • http://CopBlock.org Rob

    @ Please Stop Breeding

    “You would be screwed without an officer when the person who hit your car runs away. Are you planning on chasing the offender down? No, you would be filming the officer doing that for you.”

    And if the officer can not track down the person my insurance would cover the cost. And yes I would track down the offender and use any and all resources available to me to find a resolution to the situation.

    “And you say you’ve never heard of cases where young children take hold of drugs? You certainly need to read more news.

    Now you are changing your words. In your first comment you said “drug dealer sells to an elementary school child” now you are saying if they get a hold of drugs. That responsibility is of the parent.

    ” You think that cigarettes and alcohol are difficult for high schoolers to obtain?”

    Yes I do feel that they are harder to obtain than drugs. Their friends do not check ID when they sell drugs to each other. Any established store should ID and restrict the sale to adults.

    “What planet are you living on?”

    I live on planet earth. That was an easy question.

    “You’d rather blame someone giving alcohol to a teen than drugs?”

    Fragmented sentence that really doesn’t make sense, I’ll try and answer. I don’t think young teens should be doing any drugs. Again this is the responsibility of the parent.

    “This shows your childish intellect.”

    Name calling is and insulting someone because you disagree with them is not?

    “Since you obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder (like most of your following) for police”

    First off I do not have any following nor do I want any. Chip on my shoulder? Most of my family is law-enforcement so I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion from my one quick post.

    “so how about you put your plethora of free (jobless? time into doing something productive to contribute to society?”

    Again with the insults. I’m not sure why you think I am jobless i’m actually very successful in my career that requires many government licenses and clearances. Many of the Islands I travel to have zero police on land. There is the local navy if you need support I guess. These remote destinations with no police seem to do just fine. At least in my experience over the last 10 years. And I do volunteer in my time “it varies depending on where I am at the time” Also I am a huge supporter of Make A Wish Foundation.

    “Vandalizing a police department with graffiti was a brilliant move, by the way.”

    That was not me. I was not there so I can not speak for the actions of another individual. Although it is not something I would personally do myself.

    “Feel free to continue turning all Law Enforcement and Military against you.”

    If you read any of MY posts you will see that I mostly post videos of officers abusing their authority. Because officers do not know how to behave and I share videos of them abusing their authority I am turning them against me? Please clarify that for me.

    ” I take great pride in knowing that true heroes risk their lives on a daily basis, putting their lives on the line only to protect people like you who take no responsibility for their actions and think that the world is against them.”

    I did not ask them to protect me or put their life on the line, they took the job voluntarily. Their job does not even make the top ten most dangerous, while mine is number 1. And the only time I was every assaulted was by to rouge detectives looking for someone who isn’t me illegally broke into my house without a warrant and violently roughed me up. These are your so called hero’s.

    “Grow up.”

    You obviously do not know how to have a civil discussion. I hope I was able to answer all your question.

    EDIT: I’m not sure what you have against me as we have never met besides one comment. I believe I have 183 posts on this site, maybe you should skim through a couple of them before you insult me and jump to conclusions about what type of person I am. http://www.copblock.org/author/rob/

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  • JdL

    Comment on “Please Stop Breeding”: in every totalitarian regime, there are lick-spittle apologists for the thugs. I’m guessing that PSB is either a cop or is closely related to one: they’ll be the LAST people who will acknowledge the reality that 99% of cops are sanctimonious, lawless thugs.

    Keep up the good work exposing undercover bozos who take taxpayer money to ruin the lives of people guilty of nothing but making their own personal, private decisions.

    And PSB: thanks for entertaining us with your screeds! Got any more?

  • Larry G

    damn looks like CB and crew has really got NH LEO’s dander up…..not only are the cops invading comments with pointless what if’s and the like …..but they have the audacity to name call too…

    ahahahhahahaha

  • Anon

    Here’s the thing:

    Even if we accept the argument that drugs SHOULD be legalized (or at the very least decriminalized), they are CURRENTLY illegal. Now, you may be right that “A guy willingly buying them from someone who can sell them.” isn’t a problem, but you’re not factoring in the crimes that those people must commit to support such a habit.

    How many burglaries do you know of that happen on a regular basis to support drug habits? Not just home burglaries, but cars and even muggings?

    Now consider the other end, the drug dealers themselves. How do they come into possession of said drugs? How do they maintain their “turf” so to speak? How many innocent people get caught up in that would rather not have to deal with it?

    It might seem like a bold thing exposing under-covers who are trying to “stop 2 consenting adults from making a transaction”, but that’s only when you look at it from a limited view-point, and ignore everything else that goes on prior to, and after, the deal.

    Furthermore, you don’t know the history of the drug dealer that they were about to bust. For all you know, you just saved a wife-beating grown-up bully who pushes people around for his own benefit. That’s the risk you take when you try to “help” the community. You don’t know who you’re saving from prison. I’m sure you wouldn’t willingly help someone like that avoid going to jail would you?

    More to the point, what about the citizens in that area? Would THEY prefer the drug dealer gone? Remember, not everyone is anti-police or “pro legalizing drugs”. Some people, despite knowing about drugs, simply wouldn’t want them in their neighborhood. Shouldn’t they have equal say?

    We can make the argument all day that “If they were legal, drug related crime would go down.”. I’m not even disputing that. What I am saying however, is that they are CURRENTLY illegal. What the video demonstrates did nothing to prevent that. You’re targeting the wrong people here.

    I’ve been following the website for a little while now. And while I agree with a lot of what is said, you guys make some stupid mistakes now and again (like this one) and over-dramatize certain things.

    In the end, before you go protecting people from going to jail, you should do a little research into the person’s history, see how many violent crimes they’ve been convicted of. You guys like to use the saying “Victimless Crime”, but when you do things like this, you’re only creating more victims in the long run.

    Stick to the protests, defend yourself if wrongly accused… but don’t interfere in a situation when you have none of the details surrounding it.

  • Darlingnikki

    @Anon

    I will tread where I want! I’ve had 3 friends commit suicide so don’t think because you know people who have that your argument is superior. And anyone who uses “retarded” in their argument, isn’t very intelligent.

    Any please…anyone who thinks legalizing drugs will make dealers want to deal to children, just think about that for a second. The cases where drugs are found on children at schools, the drugs were sold to them by a fellow child who foudn the drugs in their own home or belonged to their parents and where found in their own home. If you can’t be responsible with your drugs, then either don’t do them or don’t have kids.

    The general addict isn’t killing people over a small baggy of weed…dealers are killing other dealers over territory. Leagalize it and there is no need for dealers…they are all forced to get legit jobs. Stealing, sure…but what about people who break into cars because they want your ipod that you so stupidly left on the seat…these crimes won’t diminish.

    NONE OF YOU have any right to tell me what I CAN and CAN NOT put into my body. Neither does the government. Those of you who have all these issues with legalization, obviously have control issues.

    Busybodies…Believe it or not, not everyone who does drugs is just dying to get drugs into your children, just waiting to steal your ipod or is waiting to bash your face in for a bag of weed. Sheesh.

  • Aaron

    @Anon

    “Furthermore, you don’t know the history of the drug dealer that they were about to bust. For all you know, you just saved a wife-beating grown-up bully who pushes people around for his own benefit. That’s the risk you take when you try to “help” the community. You don’t know who you’re saving from prison. I’m sure you wouldn’t willingly help someone like that avoid going to jail would you?”

    Even assuming this person did mug people to get the drugs, that doesn’t mean we should put him in prison for selling the drugs. The problem is, if you have enough evidence to know that the guy mugs people, then he should be prosecuted for mugging, using that evidence. If you don’t have enough evidence, then trying to put him in jail for something that shouldn’t even be a crime in the first place is a blatant abuse of the system.

    Should we make jaywalking a felony with sentences up to life in prison? That way, if we see someone that we think has murdered someone, but don’t have the evidence to prove it, we can put them in jail anyways.

    Or, it’s sort of like saying that it’s okay to frame a person for murdering one person, just because you are convinced they murdered another person but can’t prove it. People should only go to jail for the crimes that they can be proven to have committed.

    “More to the point, what about the citizens in that area? Would THEY prefer the drug dealer gone? Remember, not everyone is anti-police or “pro legalizing drugs”. Some people, despite knowing about drugs, simply wouldn’t want them in their neighborhood. Shouldn’t they have equal say?”

    What if the citizens in your area don’t want muslims (or to make the analogy more accurate, we’ll say,”people that pray to Allah”, since that is an action, like dealing drugs) in their area? No, they shouldn’t have “equal say” in what people are allowed to do in an open community. If they want to keep out drug deals/muslims/blacks/whatever else, they should form a private community on private property.

    “We can make the argument all day that “If they were legal, drug related crime would go down.”. I’m not even disputing that. What I am saying however, is that they are CURRENTLY illegal. What the video demonstrates did nothing to prevent that. You’re targeting the wrong people here.”

    When you’re faced with tyranny, there isn’t always a simple or clean way out. Unfortunately here, we’re the underdogs. It would be nice if we could go have a simple discussion with them to help them change their minds, but they’ve proven that doesn’t work. Sitting on street corners with signs doesn’t do much to stop people with guns from locking up peaceful people. At some point, something more significant has to be done. Instead of resorting to violence ourselves, preventing people that are (probably) peaceful from being arrested for a stupid crime seems like a good alternative. We need to work with whatever weapons that are left to us.

    Besides that, it goes back to the prior point. If I have reason to believe that this person has stolen something or hurt someone, I will call the police on them myself. But that ISN’T a good reason to let them go to jail for a crime that should not be a crime. If they’re going to go to jail, it should be for the HARM that they have done, and nothing else.

  • Shigman

    For those of you who can see the demented thinkining that members of copblock suffer from due to brainwashing, join my Anti-CopBlock FB page :-)

  • Aaron

    @Shigman

    Care to point out specific statements you disagree with and why you think they’re wrong?

    If there are too many of them, just pick out one or two that you think are especially wrong.

  • Shigman

    @aaron I would rather not waste my time. Read my description on Anti-CopBlock so you can see why. All I’m going to say is that law is law, if someone is stupid enough to try to buy illegal drugs, they deserve to go to jail

  • Aaron

    @shigman

    Are you saying that you responded directly to the specific comments above on the Facebook page? If not, I’m not interested, because that’s not what I asked. If so, why won’t you respond to them here?

    Moving along, should I infer from your statement that you would continue to support making black people use a different water fountain if it was still the law?

    If singing in the shower someday becomes illegal, will you go down to the station and turn in your children?

    It doesn’t sound like you can afford to live in a world where “stupid” is illegal, so I’d be cautious about what you advocate.

  • Nick

    Wow. I spent 20 minutes on this site perusing comments, and was battered by one reductio ad absurdum after another. On the whole, the experience was about as thought-compelling as staring at a bowl of rice for a similar amount of time. Neat.

  • Aaron

    @Nick

    He implied that the law should be followed simply because it is the law.

    I maintain:
    If you think a person shouldn’t go to prison for breaking a law (that says people go to prison for braking it), then you don’t think people should obey the law unconditionally. If there is ANY possible law that should not be obeyed unconditionally, then not ALL laws should be obeyed unconditionally.

    If not all laws should be obeyed unconditionally, then suggesting ANY law should be obeyed unconditionally requires more than just “it’s a law”.

    I proposed 2 examples in which (if you’re a decent person) you should be appalled to see someone go to prison for.

    If you still think I’m incorrect, please explain what I’m missing here. The only way out of that that I see is if you can’t think of any CONCEIVABLE laws that you think a person should never be punished for breaking.

    Also, you realize “reductio ad absurdum” isn’t necessarily a logical fallacy, right? I didn’t say “this can’t be so this other thing is.” I said, “this can’t be, so it isn’t.” I really hope you don’t dismiss all arguments that make you feel like you’d have to hold 2 contradictory beliefs on this basis.

    “On the whole, the experience was about as thought-compelling as staring at a bowl of rice for a similar amount of time. Neat.”

    If that’s true, then be careful. Not thinking when presented with an opposing viewpoint is symptomatic of brainwashing.

  • Nick

    @ Aaron

    Your maintenance of your first point is based in fallacy: “If you think a person shouldn’t go to jail for breaking a law (that says people go to prison for breaking it), then you don’t think people should obey the law unconditionally.” Punishments for the law are not written into the laws themselves, and simply because I do not believe in the punishment for said law does not mean that I do not believe in the efficacy or applicability of that same law. I can agree with the law, without agreeing with the punishment.
     
    That being said, you’re fundamentally right. No law should be followed simply because “it’s the law”. THIS is symptomatic of brainwashing. Rather, I firmly believe in weighing the pros and cons of your decision, and making a choice based on your risk-benefit analysis. However, included in that analysis should reside the likelihood of being caught and punished, if it’s a law-breaking activity. Whether or not a law is a law is a point of fact, not opinion, and to leave it out of such a decision is just wishful thinking. Do not sell yourself short, or deceive yourself, by not considering all the possibilities.
     
    All of that being said, yes, I realize that reductio ad absurdum is not necessarily a logical fallacy, but it IS boring to read it over and over again. Reductios ad absurdum and slippery slopes seem to dominate this site, and frankly, it gets dull.
     
    …and that last sentence is just silly, in context.
    A) I don’t oppose your viewpoint, I just find it poorly represented, for the most part.
    B) I clearly don’t have a problem with thinking, but instead with maintaining interest with repetitions.
    C) Behold! The Slippery Slope from Boredom to Brainwashing!

  • Aaron

    @Nick

    First, I want to actually thank you for responding with actual thoughts. (this is not meant to be a sideways insult, I actually do appreciate it)

    I don’t think the specific punishment is even relevant. It doesn’t matter whether it’s putting someone in prison for life or fining you a single penny. It’s about whether or not the government should have the authority (should is important, because it makes it a moral/ethical argument… clearly they in fact DO exercise the authority) to punish you at all for it. Even if you agree with a law and disagree with its specific punishment, you’re still supporting the authority of the law.

    I’d like to revise my prior argument to:
    -Anyone can make a any law, if there is no punishment for breaking it.
    -If a law has no punishment, the law has no authority
    -If you don’t support punishment for breaking a law, then you don’t support the authority of the law.
    -If a law has no authority, then it should not be unconditionally obeyed (because anyone can make a non-authoritative law).
    -If there is ANY possible law (and indeed, any law is possible when anyone can make non-authoritative laws) that should not be obeyed unconditionally, then necessarily not ALL laws should be obeyed unconditionally.
    -If not all laws should be obeyed unconditionally, then suggesting ANY law should be obeyed unconditionally requires more than just evidence that it is a law.

    I agree with the cost-benefit analysis bit when actually making a decision, but the conclusion of a cost-benefit analysis will be affected by the specific punishment attached to the crime. It doesn’t address the fundamental question of whether it should be a crime in the first place (which I think is what this should be about).

    I’m not saying that everyone should always break every law that they disagree with, but I am saying that we should support (if only by telling our friends how rotten it is) peaceful people that break unjust laws. And, I am saying that we shouldn’t scorn them just “because they broke the law”.

    I’m sure the arguments get kind of trite after a while, but that by itself doesn’t make them any less valid.

    Regarding the last bit, yeah, I may have jumped to conclusions about your intentions a bit prematurely, but I stand by the claim, whether or not it happens to be true about you. “Brainwashing” may sound like it’s going a bit far, but I don’t think it is. People that have been indoctrinated (which I use synonymously with “brainwashed”) seem to find it all too easy to dismiss points without much critical thought.

    But yeah, I guess I’d expect you to get bored when reading viewpoints that you don’t disagree with over and over.

  • jerry

    shigman you are either a cop or a holster sniffer but either way you are obviously not very smart. da law is da law. you judge dredd now?

  • jlm38

    I found out the undercover “Charlie”was trying to purchase k2 from the kid wth that’s a hardcore drug dealer…they “DTF” are a waste of tax payers $

  • Kal

    Alot of interesting points of view on here. I was rather disappointed with the responses of the people that were anti-copblock since they usually resulted to blind americanism like with the government where you are either pro this or your a terrorist. But there were a few really interesting points of view from both sides. In my personal opinion I still favor the copblock point of view. People should be able to decide what they put into their body regardless of the outcome for that person. If I choose to do a line of laundry detergent and die, that was my right to do it even though it was obviously a stupid thing to do. But if I’m that stupid to do it, it was probably for the best I did. Stupidity is to abundant. But anyway back to the topic. Any actions done by the druggie or dealer that harm other people should be illegal. But the choice of the sale and purchase should not be. It should be left to the individual to decide if they want to use drugs. I personally don’t use drugs. I can get them on a whim if I chose to. But I don’t. I have many friends that do all sorts of drugs. I don’t approve of them doing them. But it is their right as far as I’m concerned and I don’t turn them in for it or deny them as friends because of it. They aren’t hurting anyone. When it comes to children doing drugs, I agree that that falls under the parents responsibility. Watch your kids and be strick the way you are supposed to be. Be a parent not a friend. If you still party while you have a kid, you weren’t ready to be a parent and your dropping the ball and showing your kids the wrong things. This has gotten to long winded and only touched on a few topics. So to end it I appologize for the lack of paragraphs. I free write as my mind goes. Works for me. And I’ll continue to support what copblock does until they do something I firmly disapprove of on a large scale. Oh on a fun instigational end statement to the mentioning of supporting terrorists in other countries, that’s their country, you don’t wanna get shot at, get the hell out. You come in my house and I’d shoot at you too. And that goes to the, “Who do you call when someone breaks it to your house?” I don’t call anyone. I grab my gun and deal with it. When they stop twitching I’ll call your cops to clean up the mess.

  • http://anarchyinabottle.blogspot.com/ Danny (A)

    Admiral Ackbar says: IT’S A TRAP! Awesome Cop Blocking.

  • Pilot MKN

    Awesome work guys!

    @Fred: You might as well call a drug dealer if someone breaks into your house….they will do about as good a job as the cops. It does you no good to call AFTER your stuff is gone, its not like they are going to do anything.

    Just recently a man had his Apple laptop stolen, but he had a program on it that took pictures and screenshots and emailed them back to the owner to help track down the thief if it was ever to get stolen. He took this information to the police and they did NOTHING for weeks until he got some local media coverage and at that point they had no choice but to actually do their jobs and arrest the thief.

  • George Sand

    @Rob – good responses. The only reason I would refrain from breeding is because I would feel guilty, and disgusted at myself for bringing life into a society filled with irrational people who are unable to understand cause and effect, supply and demand,black markets, and who like to suck police cock, like Mr. Please Stop Breeding.

  • Anon

    Pilot MKN says:
    June 9, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    Awesome work guys!

    @Fred: You might as well call a drug dealer if someone breaks into your house….they will do about as good a job as the cops. It does you no good to call AFTER your stuff is gone, its not like they are going to do anything.

    Just recently a man had his Apple laptop stolen, but he had a program on it that took pictures and screenshots and emailed them back to the owner to help track down the thief if it was ever to get stolen. He took this information to the police and they did NOTHING for weeks until he got some local media coverage and at that point they had no choice but to actually do their jobs and arrest the thief.
    __________

    Trying to take one incident and use it as a blanket statement against all police doesn’t really work.

    “Bad news makes for good press.”

    You’re 10x more likely to hear about something negative happening than you are something positive. For every incident you hear about where police in a particular area don’t do something, there are multiple unheard of incidents where they help people out, many times involving the recovery of stolen property.

    But as I said, you don’t hear about that because it doesn’t make good news. It doesn’t sell news papers or draw in viewers to news programs.

    Yes, in certain situations there are asshole police offers or in certain cities entire stations, I don’t think anyone is denying that. But you’ll find that in the entirety of society, not just police or governments. That’s just how the world is. You will never find a “perfect” company that does right by every person out there, be it police, government, grocery stores, food chains, real-estate, whatever.

    If people want to hold others accountable, I have no issue with that, especially when it’s justified. But don’t attempt to take the few bad experiences they find (when they go looking for it) and try to blanket the entirety of the country/world with those. Truth be told, if you want to go based upon statistics, you’ll find the numbers point in favor of law enforcement doing more good than harm.

  • G. Michael

    At Anon…wow…just called the police the other day. Crazy Ex of a woman I know threatened to come over and kill me. Didn’t call for protection, that would be a waste, called to lay ground work in case he had the testicular fortitude to back up his words and wound up dead.

    Now, one would think threats to kill would warrant an investigation…one would think. Instead, I was told to track down his full name and date of birth so they could at it to report…I feel much safer from my 2nd Amendment right 10mm then I do from a data file on a computer.

    The point is this, police inaction would be impossible to prove if we’re forced to site EVERY FLIPPIN’ CASE ….let’s be honest most crimes are solved because someone told the police who did it, not through some CSI fantasy investigation.

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  • ajk30

    well i have a good idea on who participated in this idea. grow the fuck up. bunch of junkies when the nice undercover are done doing there spring cleaning in Hillsborough and henniker areas ill direct them down to you bad enough my kids witness it here why do other parents want there young one around you junkies. so glad Keene is behind me so much better off

  • ajk30

    it’s retarded junkies that sadly make you all look bad and the reason you get caught. my neighbors are an unwanted dealer/ junkies nightmare they make being undetectable Scream here we are watching the shit thas due to hit the fan here is going to be great

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