A co-worker of mine asked me for permission to post information on my tasering and beating by police on a website called Glock Talk. There is a forums board with one being for law enforcement. After posting, the sycophants came out of the woodwork in support of the LEO position. Reading the comments it is evident that, as far as representation of this forum would support, that police believe they possess some authority to command the people and expect an immediate reply. My story is summarily dismissed and the distrusting, conniving, and paranoid mind of the police goes to work conjuring up multiple reasons for my behavior. Is it not possible that I was just a man traveling the road at 2am, on his way home from work, and making a phone call as opposed to eating my drug contraband and hiding a weapon?
You will see references to the “law” and “compliance” as if the law is their domain and compliance is their mandate. Law exists outside of government. Law is the natural right of every human being to do as they please for their pleasure and necessity for a peaceful life. Governments are allegedly formed to protect those rights, but the modern interpretation is that government defines and administers privileges which their standing armies enforce. These men are not about protecting your rights, they are the roving fear factor to keep us in compliance.
Many of these men have serious mental issues. They believe they are greater than that which nature has made. They exist only by virtue of constitutions which come from people, and even then only from the consenting governed; and they persist through ignorance, fear, and apathy of the people who marvel at the theatrical display of their atrocities as fed to the masses through entertainment and media.
The question posed on this Glock site was just an inquiry as to the legality of the stop where I was beaten. These men watched that video and assigned the culpability to me, not the cops. I had it coming. These comments are not isolated or anomalous. I believe they are systemic and pervasive. Look past the badge and peer into the mind of the armed brigands which allegedly guard your liberties.
Here are a few of the posts by the serve and protect crowd. Sweet dreams….
BamaTrooper – Well, I see the GNG thread was quickly locked.
Your friend should have pulled over.
His testimony, if that was what his account was, sounds like he made good use of the time from arrest to trial to create the best story he could.
Calling his wife and then asking the cops if he was under arrest all sound a little odd, almost as if he expected some sort of trouble.
That is about as much as I can(will) contribute here.
Oh, he was drive stunned, not tased. Big difference.
——————————————————————————————————————————
I agree that the story seems very embellished and that by refusing to stop immediately and by getting his wife on the phone (at 0200 hours, mind you) that he was “cruising for a bruising.”
If I light you up, that means stop. Not stop later, or stop up the road. STOP. NOW.
**ETA**
Here’s some more ilk-
| It appears to me that he preemptively ran my plates and discovered an outstanding “bench warrant”. I believe he was running plates with NO reasonable suspicion and looking for a warrant hit. WAAAAA, wrong! I do it all the time bud! Perfectly legal! There are SO many of these things out there that you can throw a rock at someone who has one for merely missing a court date, not completing the payment of a fine…… and most aren’t even seen or signed by a judge. WRONG AGAIN, PERRY MASON! In my state (and every other state’s warrants I’ve seeen) the warrants are always signed by a judge! After this brigand got a hit on a warrant he contrived “swerving” as reasonable suspicion. Again, didn’t need RS for the stop! Came back with a warrant hit, if he could match the “male driver” to the sex of the person on the warrant, you’re popped! |
__________________
“When that drug dealing rapist cop killer was shot in the street, I tasted justice, and it tasted good,”
——————————————————————————————————————————
Kadetklapp – Hmm, I have a tendency to believe this officer’s report A LOT more than I do this ****bags aluminum foil wrapped “woe is me” tale-
What’s interesting to me is that we had a moron like this in one of the towns I serve part time. Made our lives (those of us at the PD and those on the town board) living hell. Several of our officers got drug to FEDERAL COURT due to this clown’s shenanigans. Finally we won a judgment against him and he went away.
——————————————————————————————————————————
If I light you up, it means stop. Not that you get to decide when to stop. If you want to play games and find a “safe place” to pull over, then don’t be surprised if we dance.
Just watched the video on my Iphone.
When the second officer came down on his back so the initiator could handcuff, your buddy alligator rolled. That’s resisting. I don’t see why they threw the case out, since the warrant hit was plenty of PC to stop. After reading more, it’s pretty clear that the judge is terrified of this nut.
——————————————————————————————————————————
jon91se – I knew this would be interesting when at gunpoint with multiple cars behind him, your friend asks “am I under arrest”. As if at some point they were going to tell him no, and that he was free to leave or something.
The officers were perfectly justified in their level of force when detaining him. They used what was necessary to bring him under control, which did not appear to be a cake walk at first.
I wish your friend the worst in his pathetic excuse for a case. He is totally responsible for his actions that ultimately directed this course of events.
——————————————————————————————————————————
cmwhitt –
| Officer Nyman also located several anti-government and anti-police pamphlets and reading material. |
Oh boy.
——————————————————————————————————————————
BamaTrooper – What I am commenting on is the delicately selected use of words that he was using. Instead of scared, he was fearing further injury and submitted instead of I was scared so I complied with the orders.
You aren’t questioning the legality of the stop. You are asking about the force and the the right to stop where you deem it safe.
Force- The first knee looked like there was a pause before it dropped. I don’t know where the officers eyes were looking so I can’t say if he aimed for the head or neck or was looking to avoid putting his knee on the pavement.
The am I under arrest question, to me, could be construed as verbal smoke screen designed to take the oficers attention from something else. He was being stopped for what he could have assumed was a traffic ARREST (at least here) and his question was unnecessary.
The first officer looked to be puting him down fairly gently. Your friend says he was scared and he did whatever he did prior to “submitting” because he was scared. Unless he knows of some reason the police in his area would stop cuff and beat him, what was his worry.
As for the drive stun, it was used for pain compliance (I suppose), but I know from personal exposure to the taser, IF YOU HEAR IT, IT AIN’T WORKING LIKE YOU HOPE IT WILL. I have seen drive stuns used on two occasions in which the resisting suspect refused to bring their hands from under their body. Once “stunned”, they complied and were handcuffed.
The oldschool wrenching and lawnmower starting might have resulted in injuries and if so, they are more severe than the temporary ones you get froma drive stun.
Stopping- Your friend drove to a “lit area” off a 4 lane road? Not much light in the video. 4 lane road shoulder would seem safer to me then a 2 lane shoulder. The officer signalled the stop when HE thought it was safe. Your friend kept driving. Why the officer might ask? Is he loading a gun, eating dope, finding a knife, calling for help? He was making a call, maybe he should have called the PD and let them know he was gonna stop down the road where he felt safer?
I’m glad your friend is OK. If he feels wronged, he should take legal action andhope he gets a decision in his favor. Next time, he needs to stop when signalled to stop.
——————————————————————————————————————————
msu_grad_121 – I will concede that I have not as yet read whats posted on the website, but trust me when I say that I will be clicking the link directly.
If the warrant is still active in LEIN, how would any patrol officer know otherwise? It has happened to me on 2 seperate occasions that when running a person, a warrant hit comes back when the issue had been resolved already, however, the issuing agency failed to remove it from LEIN, therefore, an arrest was made in good faith that the warrant is still active. That part seems like just bad luck.
As for the felony stop, it’s a name given to indicate a type of traffic stop which can be differentiated by the officers RS that a felony has occurred or is occurring. Tactics change a touch when going from issuing an equipment violation (broken tail light) to a driver with a FTA warrant that is refusing to stop in a timely fashion. Given that the FTAs I’ve seen don’t generally tell what the original charge was, and your friends poor choice of actions in continuing to drive in search of a “safer place to stop,” I doubt there’s an officer in the world that wouldn’t have initiated a felony stop in that situation.
I do notice your friend states that the time it took him to pull over after being lit up was “reasonable,” but consider this: the officer had time to determine that your friend was not stopping, radio it to dispatch, and have a second unit respond to the scene. In my experience, that’s a touch longer than your friend is trying to make it out to be.
Furthermore, as putting handcuffs on requires you to make contact, I’m of the opinion that as soon as I’m satisfied the subject is in a position where they are unlikely to hurt me, I’m going to make contact and cuff them. Hence the reason I wouldn’t have told him to prone out, etc. either. For the record, the initial “takedown” appeared to be quite reasonable, until your friend (for whatever reason) started to blade his body, which under those circumstances can be considered a furtive movement. It’s all downhill from there.
Again, these are just my opinions, but I can totally see why this went down the way it did, and I’m sorry, but your friend had a major role to play.
——————————————————————————————————————————
Sharky7 – I wonder why your “friend” Mark McCoy doesn’t post the ENTIRE video. Why is it edited only to the point when Mark exits the vehicle and begins actually complying with the commands?
The video activates generally when the lights go on…and most of the time show 30-60 seconds prior to activation as well. Where is that video?
There appears to be a lot more to this story than what is posted in this thread. Mark McCoy already had a warrant for his arrest from a previous charge – my guess is local police already knew he was a nut. It doesn’t take very long after reading his manifesto at www.markmccoy.com to figure out he got the short end of the stick when God was handing out brain cells.
I’m not quite sure that I believe REA9mm isn’t McCoy himself. With that being said – I want nothing more to do with you or your disgusting ideology being anti-cop and anti-government. Hopefully none of the other officers here in CopTalk entertain your shenanigans either.
Good day, sir. I said “GOOD DAY!”
In Libertaria, my Utopian society, police would be privatized, with no more inherent power to use force on people than a mall security guard. Not sanctified bodies, that can’t be touched my mundanes.
Cops seem to scream and cry foul when someone drives to an area where they feel safe, but ironically enough in TN they have had to run radio ads telling people they have that right and the right to make sure -they- feel safe, rather than the precious gestapo, because a couple people posing as cops have robbed several people. Most people are used to doing whatever the cops say because the cops will kick the sh*t out of you if you don’t. So enterprising thieves just need cop uniforms and an aggressive manner and people will give them whatever they want. It’s sick that we’ve gotten to the point where badge-wearers stealing from and beating up whoever they chose is considered normal.
I’ve read several True Crime books that mention that a lot of serial killers want to be cops, but can’t make the cut for whatever reason, so they often drive cop-like cars or become EMTs or other cop type jobs. Given that, the thugs penchant for brutality against submissive and “weaker” people, and the psychology behind serial killers and their thrill of controlling and hurting submissive and “weaker” people, it makes me wonder if most cops aren’t just a few psych points away from serial murders/rapists/etc. BTK stopped murdering for 15 years because he had a badge-wearing job that let him get his fix psychologically tormenting people. He was the supervisor of some sort of government compliance office. I know there are cops that honestly think they’re doing the right thing, but it makes you wonder just how many actually share the psychology of serial killers, rather than simply being school-yard bullies.
These comments are completely, fucking insane. Cops whine about how they get no respect, and how their every action is scrutinized to death, and how they have to act under pressure and are scared all the time, so they make mistakes and shoot and kill people. What about the reverse? What about citizens who are pulled over in the dark, and are screamed at and harassed without explanation? They don’t think we fucking get scared? We don’t have uniforms, guns, tasers, or badges.
I can’t believe some of these comments, like about there being a pause before the first knee dropped? Are they fucking kidding me? They can shoot someone and get away with it because they were “scared” and acting out of “fear,” but if we are slow to take a knee, we get the shit tasered out of us? Fucking insanity, is what it is. Insanity or evil.
Oh pardon me, “drive stunned” not tasered. BiG FUCKING DEAL, IT ALL FUCKING HURTS. OH EXCUSE ME, I DIDN’T STAB YOU WITH A KNIFE, I STABBED YOU WITH A SCREWDRIVER, IT’S A BIG DIFFERENCE!
UNBE-FUCKING-LIEVABLE.
Bama trooper is a goddamn Nazi. His highly detailed and analytical essay reminds me of legal analysis done in law school exams, except illogical, offensive and indeed, vomit-inducing. I mean, really? Does he honestly think a citizen has time to think about all these things and drop his knee perfectly and assess the lighting quality of the road and respond to these fucking ridiculous screaming demands with some kind of rehearsed perfection?
COP.
2 slang : steal, swipe
3 : adopt 2 “cop an attitude”
cop a plea : to plead guilty to a lesser charge in order to avoid standing trial for a more serious one; broadly : to admit fault and plead for mercy.
-Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary 2010
Police officer Jack McLamb and US Supreme Court says no cop has authority for a traffic stop, since everyone has a constitutionally protected God-given Natural Right to ttravel, without a signed driver license internal passport contract extorted at gunpoint by police state death squads as required by the 6th Plank of the Communist Manifesto. No traffic court has jurisdiction without a signed contract waiving your constitutional right to travel. Note that 75% of judges in USA lack a license to practice law, so how can they require a person to have a license to drive?
“Confiscation of property of all emigrants and rebels.”
—Communist Manifesto, 4th Plank
“Government control of Communications and Transportation.”
-Communist Manifesto, 6th Plank
“The right of the Citizen to travel upon the highway and to transport his property thereon in the ordinary course of life and business, differs radically and obviously from that of one who makes the highway his place of business and uses it for private gain in the running of a stagecoach or omnibus. The former is the usual and ordinary right of the Citizen, a right common to all, while the latter is special, unusual, and extraordinary.”
-Ex Parte Dickey, (Dickey vs. Davis), 85 SE 781
“The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a natural right.”
-Schactman v. Dulles 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941
“There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional Rights.”
-Snerer vs. Cullen, 481 F. 946
“Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them.”
-Miranda vs. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491
“The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
-Miller v. US, 230 F 486, 489
“I saw two officers as before, who rode up to me, with their pistols in their hands, said God damn you stop, if go an Inch further, you are a dead Man, and swore if we did not turn in to that pasture, they would blow our brains out. Major Mitchel of the 5th Regt clapd his Pistol to my head, and said he was going to ask me some questions, if I did not tell the truth, he would blow my brains out. I told him I esteemed myself a man of truth, that he had stopped me on the highway, & made me a prisoner, I knew not by what right; I would tell him the truth; I was not afraid.”
—Colonel Paul Revere, sworn affidavit: “Memorandum on Events of April 18, 1775″ (declassified Top Secret), while under arrest (and subsequent escape) from Redcoat martial-law traffic police at Minute Man National Historic Park, Paul Revere Capture Site, on the eve of the American Revolutionary War and kicking off the Battle of Lexington and Concord, against the army, navy and courts of King George III, heriditary dictator of England who attempted “gun control” by an Assault Weapons Ban of defensive 50-caliber muskets and cannon, Paul Revere’s Ride, by David Hackett Fischer (100s of traffic cops were lawfully murdered by We The People that day)
Battle of Athens Tennessee 1946 – 500 civilians open fire on 300 crooked cops for bogus traffic tickets, resulting in all cops arrested by citizen’s arrest, and all cops replaced by the citizens. Google it.
I’m familiar with some of “Officer McLamb’s” citations.
These modern day lobsterbacks are angering many folk for a variety of reasons (these guys are itching for a fight): Raids are increasing on farms and private food-supply clubs – http://tinyurl.com/25t266w
I advocate peaceful solutions, but wouldn’t be surprised to see things descend into incivility and chaos. I do point out to LEO family and friends that there may be a point where they have to choose sides.
I posted on my site awhile back (2006) when running for Governor of Illinois about a 17 year old boy who was killed subsequent a tasering in Jerseyville, Illinois. I won’t go into the whole issue here, but I did save some of the cops postings to a now defunct site called packing.org.
These posts were in response to the youth dying from tasering by Jerseyville police.
Some good links which summarize the criminal and civil aspects of this case are
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226417,00.html
http://www.thetelegraph.com/news/taser-8178-death-officers.html
http://www.thetelegraph.com/news/holyfield-26334-suit-police.html
Here are the excerpts from my old campaign site where I address the issue. Remember, these are in response to a non-violent 17 year old boy being tasered and dying:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted Oct 31, 2006 @ 12:14 pm CST
jlefty
Ok…
In the article it said:
Amnesty International has urged police departments to suspend the use of Tasers pending more study….
I agree, just lets go back to shooting the miscreants. According the article that would of been 70,000 less miscreants on the streets.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted Oct 31, 2006 @ 12:27 pm CST
Sigh…
…that why they are called LESS-lethal, not NON-lethal! There is no attempt to mislead anyone that no harm could come to someone acting stupid/dangerous enough to warrant the use of a Taser on them.
I’m with jlefty… Just go back to shooting them! After all, most violent crimes are committed by REPEAT OFFENDERS who shouldn’t have ever seen the light of day again (one way or another)!
It sounds like there is a little more to the story, in this particular incident… At least I would like to think so, because it is rather disheartening when (alleged) nut-jobs use the Bible as a justification or symbol of their whacked-out perspective, and the actions which follow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Posted Oct 31, 2006 @ 3:15 pm CST
As long as the use of the Tasers is applied consistently…
…I have no problem with how often they are used. The way I look at it is, the sooner that a perp who wants to fight the police can be subdued, the better. I mean, the whole purpose for the tool is to prevent unnecessary injury to LEOs by minimizing the need for a physical struggle. I am all-for anything that will allow LEOs to end confrontations quickly and move-on to other calls.
Additionally, it may even prevent more painful injury to the perp… I personally would much rather get ‘juiced’ by a taser than have my eyes burning for an hour from OC, or busted ribs from a 150fps bean-bag. Realistically, a Taser is just a natural step up in force from asking the perp nicely to stop and lay down on the ground, and far more humane than beating his face into the pavement with a nightstick…
Bad things happen, such as the subject situation, but it never would have happened if the deceased young man had not chosen to act in such a way as to provoke a response by law-enforcement. Or, if the deceased young man required supervision because of a mental disorder/disability, the person responsible was negligent. Blaming Tasers for accidental deaths is on the same stupidity level as blaming guns for shoot-outs and murder.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The-Fly
Posted Oct 31, 2006 @ 3:18 pm CST
he wanted jesus…..
he got him. Happy ending for everyone involved. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I just want to say that I don’t think the responses in that sub-forum of Glocktalk are indicative of the average glocktalk member.
I post over there and enjoy reading some of the sub-forums, but others sub-forums are a mess (One is solely devoted to topics that are so controversial they can not be talked about calmly elsewhere on the forum…so they contain as much of the asshattery there to avoid it popping up elsewhere).
The coptalk sub-forum in particular seems primarily devoted to cops and wannabes(so they can pat each other on the back)…so I wouldn’t take it to heart. I think it goes with the territory that have a bunch of over-authoritarian knuckledraggers in that sub-forum
I think you would get a fairer shake in some of the other forums, as I think there are a lot of libertarian minded people on most of the firearm related forums (and I think the number continues to grow)
Battle of Britain time once more, time to think of all those fearless men, heroes, all of them.