Seig Heil to the Nazis in Fullerton

Published On August 4, 2011 | By Georgia Sand | Articles

In early July, a homeless, schizophrenic man named Kelly Thomas was beaten and tasered to death by police. This is what Thomas looked like after his clash with the police (click to enlarge):

John Bussman, a local defense attorney, has been protesting in front of the Fullerton police station for the past 2 Saturdays. “At our first one, only about 20-30 people showed up. I’ve met Kelly’s family a couple times now and helped them hang some signs on Sunday,” said Mr. Bussman. Jon & Ken on KFI AM 640 devoted a segment to the beating on Friday and drew a lot of attention, which may have contributed to the presence of about 200 people there this Saturday.

“The OC Register has been taking a lot of flak for their failure to give this appropriate coverage. The Register basically just said that one guy fought the police, then died a few days later,” said Mr. Bussman. The OC Register’s original coverage apparently gave no indication the guy was unarmed,  was not on drugs, and had his throat and skull crushed by six officers after he was Tasered 5 times.

“I expect that protests at the Fullerton Police Station will be my regular Saturday morning routine until there is some justice for Kelly,” he added.

According to multiple witnesses, the cops repeatedly beat the 135-pound man with weapons and shot at him with Tasers. They kicked in his face and crushed a knee or two into his throat. Friends For Fullerton’s Future, a local blog, broke the story and has followed this tale of police murder and corruption. The blog documents the officers involved were allegedly shown the video as they wrote their reports to ensure matching accounts, and reports were purportedly rewritten repeatedly to satisfy the management. Another officer involved allegedly bragged about the murder the next day in the lockerroom (see their coverage here).

If you are unrealistic and/or ignorant, you are probably horrified at this and may be honestly lamenting how such a thing could have happened – perhaps you’re hoping the DA has charged them with murder, or that the “good apples” are coming forward to do the right thing.

If you are realistic and informed, you know the rest of the story. The mainstream media isn’t too concerned. Google “Kelly Thomas Fullerton” and you’ll find scanty coverage. The DA hasn’t charged anybody with shit. The murdering pig fucks are probably still busy re-writing those reports to paint Mr. Thomas as a dangerous psychopath, and are probably still bragging about beating his brains out behind the secrecy of  the Blue Line. Initially, one pig cop was on administrative leave and the other five were temporarily reassigned to other duties (OC Register coverage here). On August 2, all five were put on paid vacation while a biased and thoroughly corrupt “investigation” continues.

The officers have not been fired. They have not been charged with crimes. The city has offered a $900,000 settlement to Ron Thomas, the victim’s father (i.e. the murderers aren’t paying for their crimes; the taxpayers are). Of course, had they been ordinary people (the ones they pretend to serve), they would all be in jail, with charges piling up against them, probably with gang enhancements alleged.

But not so, because they are pigs cops. Cops are essentially a breed of demi-god in the United States of America. When they commit murder, they receive special treatment, and the public must beg the FBI, plead with local politicians, beseech the police department for accountability, or otherwise engage in boot-licking, humiliating, degradation in the hope they might receive a pathetic shadow of justice.

Americans learn in school that Hitler and the Nazis were the essence of evil, but the only lesson patriotic, state-loving Americans seem to take away from the experience of the Holocaust is that Germans were evil and fucked up. They willingly ignore the real lesson that flows logically from such a monumental disaster, which is that it behooves every citizen to beware of the banality of evil, and a blind deference to government and law.

Nazi Germany suffered not only from evil Germans in stupid costumes, it suffered from systemic support and entrenched infrastructure that condoned, supported and excused the actions of evil Germans in stupid costumes. The Hitler regime was able to continue because of institutional protections for those in government which allowed for failure to punish murder, cover-ups of murder of Jews with false death certificates and use of various excuses such as the Nuremburg defense to morally justify the eradication of people who may have at times broken inconsequential laws (not all Jews were killed merely for being Jewish – some were killed for breaking curfew, failing to wear gold stars, or other minor infractions). The problem was not that the system failed Jewish people – it was that the system was designed to kill Jewish people.

This is no different from Kelly Thomas’ beating. Six members of government savagely murdered a man, and continue  to walk free and take a vacation because the government allowed them to escape criminal charges, the government has cloaked them in civil immunity, and the government has encouraged cover-ups through falsification of police reports, and use of excuses such as “the law is the law” and “if he had kissed the ring followed orders he wouldn’t have been beaten.” The system has not failed Kelly Thomas. The system was designed so that police can kill with impunity.

Despite the logically identical similarities, Americans will employ willful ignorance to deny this reality. I think I’ve got the distinctions figured out. Nazis were evil because they were German, and Americans are not German. Nazis were different because their uniforms were uglier, while American police wear more fashionable uniforms. The vile members of the Fullerton Police Department are different from Nazis because beating a mentally ill person to death is morally superior to frying a person in an oven.

In addition, America is a free society in which people can vote and make a real difference in the political process, so Kelly Thomas could have voted for the right politicians and police chief to prevent his beating. He had this opportunity, and could have left America if he didn’t like the laws, so his beating and untimely death were actually voluntary and completely different from the violent execution of innocent people in Nazi Germany. Sound familiar? I hear Americans say this shit every day. Well, let’s take it to its necessary logical conclusion then – Mr. Thomas wasn’t murdered; he committed suicide, because democracy, the political process, and the social contract makes it all “voluntary.”

On the other hand, a more reasonable person would conclude Kelly Thomas’ death demonstrates that at any given time in the United States, the punishment for perceived lack of respect can be death. This is not freedom, safety, or order. This is tyranny and chaos.

Watch a video of OCTA bus footage of witnesses describing and discussing the event. They agree that Mr. Thomas did nothing to deserve this violence, and appear extremely distraught:

Another witness’s video depicting commentary and Kelly Thomas screaming for his father as he is being beaten to death:

Check out facebook pages Help Kelly Thomas and Justice for Kelly Thomas for more updates.

Fullerton PD information
Chief of Police Michael Sellers — 714.738.6825 — [email protected]
Uniform Division Capt Dan Hughes — 714.738.6840 — [email protected]
Services Division Capt Alex Bastreri — 714.738.6839 — [email protected]
Investigation Division Capt Kevin Hamilton — 714.738.6841 — [email protected]
Police Public Information Officer Sgt Andrew Goodrich — 714.738.6838 — [email protected]

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About The Author

Georgia (George) Sand received her B.A. from UCLA and her J.D. from the University of San Diego School of Law. She enjoys beer, jogging, the beach and music in her spare time.
  • Michael

    Two things really bother me about this (beyond it being generally atrocious).

    1) They aren’t releasing the police officers names in this matter (common practice when police are being investigated). However, when a non-police officer is suspected of a crime and/or investigated their name and picture is reported to the media.

    2) An article I read about this quotes the orange country district attorney as saying there are things on the video that you can’t see (can’t remember link), thereby suggesting this may be justified. That is patently absurd, I can’t imagine any scenario where 6 grown men (assuming the officers were all men) would have to beat someone so bad that they look this guy does in the picture. 6 people could dog-pile him to get him under control.

    These are officers are on PAID administrative leave. Are you fucking kidding me?

  • Free Soul

    The thought that the people who did this to Kelly Thomas will never be held accountable is repugnant to any decent human being…

  • one2rebelll

    honestly, those cops need to get their fuckin ass kicked.. badly, thats your town over there.. you need to fuckin do something to those cops.. you dont want them to get away with practical murder. you need to cut their fuckin fingers off. you need to smash their fuckin face in. find out where they live.. throw bricks through their windows. they wanna do something disgusting like this to some poor man.. they need something disgusting and fatal done to them. in return for this poor mans pain and suffering.. you cops are sad as fucking shit.. every cop will get theirs.. I promise..

  • bong_jamesbong2001

    There was an article on copblock.com a week ago posing the question: “When Should You Shoot a Cop?” This was a time when we should have shot 20 of them.

  • White Indian

    Maybe the cops are Libertarian. Kelly Thomas was suspected of burglarizing vehicles, and property must be protected at all costs, because it is an equivalent value to life itself. “Without property rights, no other rights can be practiced,” as the ol’ saying goes.

    “Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment … unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares?”

    ~Murray Rothbard (American author and economist of the Austrian School who helped define modern Libertarianism,) The Irrepressible Rothbard http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.html

    Those cops looked “unleashed” to me.

  • E-fucking-NOUGH

    I think it is time for citizens to buy some walkie talkies and start arming themselves. Just walk the streets and start placing cops under arrest. Make sure you radio your fellow citizens to come to your aid. Cuff them up and throw them in a basement for a few days. Give them some dumb fucking demeaning pumpkin colored jump suit and have them represented by some underpaid/overworked stress case that they get to speak to for all of 2 minutes before facing judgment from someone that is all to eager to get them off OUR streets.

    Actually, that is too much trouble. Just go perch up on roofs and pick em off at random. Start clearing the streets.

    Now that I have ranted, I would like to say that my heart goes out to his family. And even though no justice will probably ever be brought to those goose stepping murderers, I hope they take solace in the fact that their sons story is a wake up call to many stagnant Americans. I for one will be sharing this story with as many people as I can in hopes they spread it too.

  • George Sand

    @White Indian – To vilify all of an economic theory because one thing one guy said is not to your liking is absurd. Further, where in that quote does he say that bums should be violently beaten to death?

    There is nothing libertarian about cops. Do you even know what a libertarian is? Cops are the essence of socialism, which is the opposite of libertarianism. Police are a government-run, centrally-controlled entity with no free market checks on power, and no accountability. Please think before you type random jibber jabber.

  • White Indian

    @George Sand: How about you take your own advice and not be intellectually dishonest yourself.

    Rothbard wasn’t writing about only violent felonies. He calls for for cops to be unleashed to “clear the streets of bums and vagrants.”

    Or do you purport that BUMS and VAGRANTS are all violent rapists and murders?

    Rothbard also could tell just by the looks – yes, even the mere degree of pigmentation of a person’s skin – if a person was an “aggressor” in the sacrosanct act of defending property.

    “Racialist Science;” it’s Libertarian.

    “In short; racialist science is properly not an act of aggression or a cover for oppression of one group over another, but, on the contrary, an operation in defense of private property against assaults by aggressors.”

    ~Murray Rothbard, The Irrepressible Rothbard
    Source: http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/07/murray-rothbard-lew-rockwell-and.html

    P.S. I’m only quoting an Austrian economist. If his quotes vilify himself or his socio-economic theory, then maybe he’s a self-vilifying villain. That sort of thing has happened before.

  • George Sand

    @White Indian – First of all, he said to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Nowhere in that quote does he say to kill them. This is quite an intellectually dishonest stretch for you to make. But this is really a completely tangential point anyways.

    The real point is the ridiculous proposition that if one Austrian economist said a bad thing, all of Austrian economics is bunk. Hey, Hitler ate bread. Do you eat bread too? You must be racist. Racialist science is libertarian? Where do you get this nonsense? You know what? Under this logic, teachers = child molesters. There have been some teachers who molested children, so all teachers and the institution of teaching clearly advocates molestation. And all Christians are murderers, because some of them bombed abortion clinics. Therefore, all Christians must advocate murder, and murder is Christian.

  • George Sand

    @White Indian – To be more clear – I don’t really care what Rothbard said. I don’t think it’s fair for you to equate relocating bums to murdering them, but that’s really irrelevant. The really important point is that the fact that one guy said something stupid, does not make an entire economic theory or political theory unsound. This proposition is logically unsound.

  • Guy Fawkes

    Agree with everything you said except the comment about Nazi uniforms being ugly. Some of them were rather spiffy, especially those worn by the SS. http://www.amber-online.com/system/assets/152/450/450/constrain/img

  • White Indian

    @George Sand: I never wrote the word “kill” in describing Rothbard’s quote. You did, then falsely attributed the word to my quoting.

    The “ridiculous propositions,” as you put it, of Libertarianism and Austrian economics crop up time and time again. Rothbard isn’t the only Austrian economist making “ridiculous propositions” emanating from the ridiculous economic theory that property is valued as highly as life itself.

    Libertarian economists, in a ridiculous defense of owning property – even people – write of Voluntary Slavery. Robert Nozick is one. Walter Block is another.

    Block even defends sadistically whipping his owned property, as follows:

    “If voluntary slavery is legal, we can consummate this financial arrangement, to our mutual gain. If not, not, to the great loss of both of us. Slave-master Rafe would never shell out the cold cash if, after he paid, I could haul him into court on assault and battery charges when he whipped me.”

    ~Walter Block, professor of economics at Loyola University, and a senior fellow of the Mises Institute
    Voluntary Slave Contracts
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block134.html

    Voluntary (wink, wink) Slavery. It’s Libertarian.

    Question:

    Would a Libertarian Fullerton cop be guilty of any crime if Kelly Thomas had signed a voluntary slave contract before the whipping he received?

  • No More

    First of all, this crap about killing cops needs to stop! That kind of talk only makes the issue worse! I don’t believe all cops are bad, but some are, and the bad ones should be prosecuted! There needs to be laws that would empower citizens to protect other citizens from being abused by police without the fear of prosecution (just like if you were to break up a gang beating!), also, there needs to be additional extreme penalties for abusing authority. Assault and Battery: 15 years, Assault and Battery while abusing authority: LIFE! Also, the police who just sit there and watch should be prosecuted for accessory or failure to stop a crime!

  • George Sand

    @ White Indian. You continue to engage in the same logical fallacies. You are incapable of attacking the actual principles of libertarianism, so you point to various people who identify with the principles and dig up random stupid crap they said. For every dumb quote you throw out, I can throw out an example of of a crazy Christian who murdered someone, or a teacher who molested a child, as an argument that Christian ideology and the spread and teaching of ideas are evil. If you want to discuss the non-aggression principle, and how the non-aggression principle is evil, be my guest. But don’t point to what random people said as proof that the non-aggression principle promotes violence or murder.

    Further, you said Fullerton cops must be libertarian, because they killed this guy, and said they must be libertarian because of Rothbard’s quote. That is directly implying that Rothbard’s quote supports murdering bums.

  • George Sand

    @Guy – ROFL!!!

  • White Indian

    George Sand said: “I don’t think it’s fair for you to equate relocating bums to murdering them.”

    You may want to research the 4000 or so that died on the Trail of Tears. Need any other examples?

    “[The Native Americans] didn’t have any rights to the land and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights which they had not conceived and were not using … Any white person who brought the element of civilization had the right to take over this continent.”

    ~Ayn Rand, in her Q/A session following an address to the graduating class of the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York, March 6, 1974

  • George Sand

    @White Indian – I really am not following, if you think the Trail of Tears is due to some kind of Libertarian action. Libertarianism is based on principles of non-aggression. Relocating and forcing American Indians out of their homes and their land would certainly be a violation of the non-aggression principle, and anyone who supports this kind of violence is not really a standard libertarian.

    You have not responded to anything I have said. Tell me. Do you eat bread? Because Hitler ate bread too, so if you also eat bread, that must make you racist, right? Have you ever heard of a teacher molesting a child? If there are teachers who molested children, then that must mean teaching is evil, right?

    You do not seem to understand that attacking random people associated with a movement does not per se discredit the ideas of a movement or ideology. If you have a problem with libertarianism, you need to address why the non-aggression principle is wrong. You need to explain why the belief that initiation of force and coercion are wrong somehow led to the Trail of Tears and Fullerton Police brutality. I don’t care about Ayn Rand or Rothbard or whatever other stupid thing some person may have said. The root of libertarianism is the non-aggression principle. If you are going to criticize libertarianism, you need to address those points, not cite random quotes from random people.

  • George Sand

    @ White Indian – for instance. If you are going to criticize Christianity, you would criticize the core beliefs of Christianity, discuss the Bible and its stories, and discuss various practices of various sects and why they are good/bad. You would not point to one pastor who molested a child, or two Christians who killed some people and say, “You see? Christians are all violent. Murders and molestation happens because of Christianity.” This is exactly what you are doing with libertarianism and citing Rothbard and Rand right now.

  • Justin

    @ White Indian do you have any clue of what the non aggression principle is? The NAP is the centerpiece of libertarianism. Nothing about the NAP remotely advocates mass genocide (Trail of Tears). Don’t give me any more of this luppy cunt Ayn Rand shit or some random quote from some other supposed “Libertarian” thinker either. Attack the NAP or shut the fuck up.

  • Justin

    Another great article by George Sand.

  • White Indian

    Justin says: “Attack the NAP or shut the fuck up.”

    I will never “attack the NAP;” however, you can if you think your suggestion is such a grand idea.

    Besides, don’t you think the quotes from Murray Rothbard, Walter Block, and Ayn Rand “attack the NAP” quite well enough? Your work appears done for you.

    If Libertarian philosophy/economic theory is self-contradictory regarding the non-aggression principle, then somebody needs to check their premises.

  • Justin

    I do not have the time nor the inclination to argue with a retard.

  • fu

    You are in civil war! STRIKE DRONES!

  • Guy Fawkes

    There is disagreement in philosophy among democrats and republicans, why should it NOT be the same among libertarians? Some democrats are pro gun, Teddy Roosevelt, a republican was both an environmentalist and a trust buster, not a corporate boot licker by any definition.
    Just because Ayn Rand said something does not make it a universal belief for all libertarians.

    I don’t know where it came from, but I remember reading the fundamental underlying philosophy of libertarianism was “your rights end where my nose begins”. So you can smoke pot of you want, but can’t set up a home meth lab next to my house because it produces toxic fumes that can harm me as well as has the potential to blow up. The same philosophy would also make it illegal for corporations to dump toxic shit on their property, as even though they own the property if the water table below gets contaminated the whole town gets poisoned, hence violating the “my nose begins” aspect of libertarianism. I would assume cops beating people to death when not protecting their own lives would easily fall under this tenet as well.

  • White Indian

    Libertarianism (and Objectivism, anarcho-capitalism, etal) is a bait-and-switch salvationist religion; yes, it’s a religion, albeit secular, as Robert Nelson demonstrates in his book “Economics as Religion.”

    They bait, or proselytize, with the ethic of reciprocity, which they call the “non-aggression principle.” I, along with most people, heartily agree with the ancient ethic of reciprocity, and the more modern, clarifying non-aggression principle.

    However, more important to their religion is acquiring and defending property. They really would be more honest in calling themselves “Propertarians.”

    Yet, property rights by abstract ownership require the initiation of force, as attorney Jeff Vail establishes in his book “A Theory of Power.” (see excerpt below*)

    In defending abstract ownership of property, Libertarians consistently contradict themselves regarding the non-aggression principle, with such examples as I’ve provided: Murray Rothbard calling for cops to be unleashed, “Scientific Racism,” Ayn Rand apologizing for genocide, and Water Block and Robert Nozick’s fetish for abstract ownership of property extends to owning people as slaves.

    The list of contradictions to the NAP goes on and on – including luminaries such as Mises.

    But bring up a contradiction, and they falsely claim their only principal is the NAP bait, and throw their abstract-property-defending Libertarian brethren under the bus, labeling them as crazy.

    Well, on denouncing Rothbard-Rand-Mises-Block-Nozick and other economists as “crazy” — I’ve been told each of these authors are crazy by Libertarians — I do agree.

    Unfortunately, not too many Libertarians are honest enough to call a contradiction a contradiction.

    Thus, the silly games and name-calling demonstrated above, as most religious people do, when embarrassing contradictions in their doctrine are pointed out.
    ____________

    *excerpt from http://www.jeffvail.net/2005/03/theory-of-power-online.html
    A Theory of Power
    Chapter 9 – Forward, to Rhizome
    by Jeff Vail:

    The abstract notion of ownership serves as the single, greatest perpetuator of hierarchy. When one steps back and examines the notion of “owning” something, the abstraction becomes readily apparent. Ownership represents nothing more than a power-relationship—the ability to control. The tribal institution of “Ownership by use” on the other hand, suggests simply that one can only “own” those things that they put to immediate, direct and personal use to meet basic needs—and not more. A society crosses the memetic Rubicon when it accepts the abstraction that ownership can extend beyond the exclusive needs of one individual for survival. Abstract ownership begins when society accepts a claim of symbolic control of something without the requirement of immediate, direct and personal use. Hierarchy, at any level, requires this excess, abstract ownership—it represents the symbolic capital that forms the foundation of all stratification.

  • Arlean

    I wish this article had not had an unacceptable curse word in it. I would have forwarded it to my entire mailing list. But alas, it was ruined. If you put language like that in there, you may criticize me for not forwarding but people will rule it out as being written by trash that probably are not very careful about what they send out. It completely neuters the information for many people. Sad.

  • Guy Fawkes

    @White Indian

    So you are saying you are against ownership of property? What would you replace it with? If you replaced it with “occupancy” instead of ownership how do you think the “force” issue would be removed? If you go back to the western Indian tribes, they may have claimed not to believe in “owning property” but if another tribe attempted to hunt/settle in the same area as the occupying tribe they would have been greeted with arrows. Those tribes were nomadic, hence while no one “owned” the land, the people occupying it at the time didn’t feel any obligation to share.

  • John Bussman

    Well done, George. Thanks for helping draw some attention to this story. If not for independent blogs like this one and fullertonsfuture.org, I’m afraid this story would have died a quiet death.

    This was actually discussed on CNN yesterday and Brian Williams mentioned it on the evening news.

  • George Sand

    @White Indian – if you are against ownership of property, then you should have no problem with the Trail of Tears. Because they didn’t own that property, and whoever with the biggest guns gets to have at it. That is the natural consequence of not respecting property rights – people fighting endlessly with no common principle of who owns what.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8de2W3rtZsA ( J ) ̿ ̿̿’̿’\̵͇̿̿\з==(•̪●)==ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿

    Who Was There? The FPD Six

    Our local leaders have concealed the identities of the six officers who participated in the brutal arrest of Kelly Thomas. In the absence of official information, the public justifiably fears and distrusts every single member of the FPD.

    That is probably why sources very close to the Fullerton police department have given us the names of the officers on scene that night. This information was reportedly determined from knowledge of patrol schedules and the observance of which officers have not been reporting for duty since the six were put on leave.

    According to our sources:

    Officer Jay Cicinelli was there
    Officer Kenton Hampton was there
    Officer Manny Ramos was there
    Officer Joe Wolfe was there
    Officer James Blatney was there

    The sixth officer would have been a sargent called to the scene due to the use of a Taser. There are two patrol sargents not reporting for duty at the moment who may have been on duty that night. When we figure out which one was there, we’ll let you know.

    http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/

  • White Indian

    @Guy, Collectivism (or leftist-libertarianism) and Capitalism are both slightly different political varieties of the same system: a system of only 1% of human history where, as Daniel Quinn puts it, human food is controlled and put under lock and key.

    Mises and Marx are merely squabbling over the key.

    When you have an agricultural City-State (civilization) you’re going to have big government. The City has never been, and I’d guess never will be, divorced from the State.

    A study of anthropology, starting Elman Service’s sociopolitical typology will be instructive. If you’re interested in Non-State societies, why not read his Non-State and State Societies? http://faculty.smu.edu/rkemper/cf_3333/Non_State_and_State_Societies.pdf

    Think living in a Non-State society before the City State sucked (as Hobbes falsely states?) Read some more anthropology like Marshall Sahlin’s The Original Affluent Society. That single chapter in his book, via empirical data, invalidates dozens of Misean premises upon which he builds feeble syllogisms.

    If you embrace the POLIS, the greek word for city, then you’re going to have POLITICS and POLICE.

    POLIS-POLITICS-POLICE. CITY-STATE. The Voluntary City is as much as an oxymoron as Voluntary Slavery or Benevolent Rape.

    How people get their food is the key to the level of freedom a society enjoys. “Agriculture creates government,” as Richard Manning states in his book Against the Grain.

    If you want a realistic proposal for more freedom, based on how humans get food, look at attorney Jeff Vail’s “What is Rhizome,” especially chapter 3. http://www.jeffvail.net/2007/01/what-is-rhizome.html

    It wouldn’t hurt to integrate British anthropologist Robin Dunbar’s famous concept, Dunbar’s Number, into your study of sociopolitical typology.

    Small is not only beautiful, it’s much more free.

    @George, I know well the Libertarian rhetoric you’re parroting about them Injuns – it’s fiction constructed to rationalize your economic religion so you can tell people “Get Off my Property,” which is the core mantra of mainstream Libertarianism. A study of history, archeology, and anthropology will reveal the what you’ve read in your scriptures as pure fiction.

    Axiomatic, a priori, deductive thinking often leads to mistakes like you’re repeating. If you want to start with inductive reasoning, and real empirical evidence regarding freedom, a good place to start is The Invasion Within: The Contest of Cultures in Colonial North America by James Axtell. (One if his chapters is “White Indians” from which I take my pen name.) Another great read is Indian Givers: How the Indians of the Americas Transformed the World by Jack Weatherford.

    Like I told Guy, POLIS-POLITICS-POLICE is the system. If you don’t like Police and Politics, then why do so many libertarians cling to the fantasy Jetson’s MetroPolis, the never attainable heavenly Voluntary City?

  • Matt

    “every cop will get theirs” “should have shot 20 of them” etc etc. Unbelievable these types of comments are allowed on here all the time

  • paschn

    “every cop will get theirs” “

    Not every cop…..just the swine that perpetrate murders etc….Of course, that being said, there wouldn’t be many left, would there?
    Want to get rid of simian pigs like those listed above? Remove their pensions and benefits…After they spend their 15 or 20 beating, raping and murdering, let ‘em live on social security and medicare.
    When the Renfield Class in D.C. f**k the sheeple enough and they turn to the cops running interference for D.C., just remember their names, faces. Justice will catch up and do the rest.

  • D. Chessler

    Jesus Christ Indian, piss off and grind your tomahawk somewhere else already.

  • White Indian

    @Chessler, you’re right, I’ll just piss off, convert to the religion of Libertarianism, and cheer the cops administering a bit of “instant punishment” to “vagrants and bums” in the defense of our holy sacrament, private property.

    “Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment … unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares?”

    ~Murray Rothbard
    American author and economist of the Austrian School who helped define modern Libertarianism

    Uh oh, there’s a dark colored person on my property, I think I’ll read some “Racialist Science” by Rothbard, and dispatch them in good conscious. You know those most of those darkies don’t – can’t – understand the sacrament of private property.

    And, uh, Chessler, do you own yourself? Great, now that you think of yourself as property, if you own yourself, you can sell yourself just like a common piece of private property, so I can own you as a Voluntary Slave, like Libertarian economists say is just and holy. Cuz it would be so Libertarian to whip your ass while you’re chained to the wall.

    No? Maybe I’ll just troll 4chan for some laid-off MILF with a child who has leukemia and can’t afford treatment. Now that’s Libertarian!

    “If voluntary slavery is legal, we can consummate this financial arrangement, to our mutual gain. If not, not, to the great loss of both of us. Slave-master Rafe would never shell out the cold cash if, after he paid, I could haul him into court on assault and battery charges when he whipped me.”

    ~Walter Block, professor of economics at Loyola University, and a senior fellow of the Mises Institute, in his essay on Voluntary Slave Contracts

    No, I’m not a psychopath, I’m Libertarian!

    It’s as fun as being a Christian who believes in infinite love, but really gets their rocks off thinking of people burning in Hell. Hell is love, and…

    Owning propertyized people is Liberty.

    Thank you, Chessler, for helping me see the light. I’m gonna go convert my neighbor. Got my white shirt, tie, and Nolan’s Chart!

  • Paula Parmeley Carter

    @Matt, we do not censor comments. That being said, I myself find the calls for violence quite disheartening. I think others here have clearly made the case that you have a right to defend yourself against the unlawful actions of an officer, but there is no such case to be made for the random or retaliatory violence that some commenters seem to cheer on. Violence is a tool for tyrants, let our tool be words and video cameras.

    There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.
    - A. J. Muste

  • paschn

    Ms. carter,

    Think back a moment, please. EVERY act of violence, corruption, theft, crushing of our constitution….There have always been those to parrot: “we must get past this, we must move on….”

    For decades we followed that mantra, now what has it gotten us? Lied into 5 wars in LESS than 10 years….financially raped by the unconstitutional FED RES, and it’s collection agency, the unconstitutional IRS…Our government OWNED by Israel and AIPAC…our servicement slaughtered by same, (USS LIBERTY), our citizens assassinated by same, (Rachal Corrie, Freedon Flotilla massacre),…The “Renfield Class” in D.C. so CONFIDENT in their treaon they barely try to HIDE it any longer. The list of grievances and violations can go on and on…Possibly the most honorable of the founding fathers, (Thomas Jefferson), advocated CITIZEN REVOLT if and when “our” government becomes oppressive. Now, that being said……Whom, (with their cushy pensions/retirements..[ever wonder why?]), PROTECTS said corrupt/oppressive government from the JUSTIFIED rage of “we the people”? These very swine we discuss and expose here. This will NOT end with stern words and “….moving on”. Do you call 1% controlling more wealth than the other 95% combined, Democratic? This nation has become SO evil, SO corrupt, SO fascist, (1886 the bought off supreme court granted CITIZEN’S RIGHTS to CORPORATIONS!!), Democratic Republic??!! We were NEVER free of the Red Queen’s Great Britain…simply by virtue of the Rothschild Federal Reserve, Unholy spawn of it’s progenator, the Bank of England that the treasonous dog Alexander Hamilton harnessed us with before Aaron Burr put him out of our misery! The mass hangings and overthrow by the people should have begun DECADES ago, fewer would have suffered and died. This has gotten so bad BECAUSE their shills kept repeating “this too will pass…” Well, it hasn’t and it won’t. Mobs in the streets w/o justification = TERRORISM…….a sold-out people massing for justice by removing a totally uncontrollable and corrupt government is revolution and justifiably so. Voting doesn’t do any good any longer, their electronic ballot machines see to that, (as does a media of, by and FOR the corporations). Recall John Edwards being froze out of the NBC debate with the blessings of “our”(?) Supreme Court. What the hell has happened to the PEOPLE controlling the air waves?? Only in a FASCIST nation do corporations have citizen’s rights, NOT IN A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC.

  • Paula Parmeley Carter

    paschn,

    You do not have to convince me that the present system is beyond redemption. I have no delusions that “this too will pass.” As a contributor here at CopBlock, I spend hours reading articles that detail the worst of what this system of governing can dish out. The brutality, the violence disgust me. It makes me angry and sad and I anguish over the victims of the government’s violence. I am so overwhelmed by the monumental injustices that I read about on a daily basis that many times I can not even decide what to write about. Believe me when I say that I am just as pissed off as you are. But, why, when everywhere I look I see violence, would I want more violence.
    What do you think would really be accomplished by armed revolt? Don’t you think the government would bring down the full power of their ill gotten gains on your head? Do you think they would hesitate to drop the very bombs you were forced to pay for on your home? Go look at some pictures of a mangled child, ripped to shreds by bombs and bullets, in some war torn country and then tell me that is the solution to the violence the government perpetrates upon us.
    Even if a revolt was successful,what makes you so sure that what we get instead will be any better? A successful revolt would require leadership. Will those leaders easily give up their power once the revolt is over, or will they just become the new tyrants we must survive? Remember the last armed revolt in this country led to the very system that is so utterly violent, corrupt, and unjust.
    I have no delusions that the petty tyrants will stop their violence because we ask nicely. I do however know that the present system is not sustainable. Every one of your grievances; taxes, the currency, the wars…it is nothing more than violence or the threat of violence and violence, as we can see with the current debt, is expensive. It is not sustainable. It will collapse upon itself. In the mean time I choose to live in as much peace as I can by choosing to opt out of as much of the government’s violence as I reasonably can. I choose to live in peace by not aggressing against my neighbor. I choose to spread the ideas of peace and of liberty, because ideas are bulletproof, I am not. And neither are my children or your children or yourself.
    Thomas Jefferson said many great things but he was wrong when he said “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” The tree of liberty will not survive when it is planted in violence. History has proved that.

  • paschn

    Ms. Carter,

    Think carefully about all you just posted. You are, unfortunately, absolutely correct. Now, that being said, then tell me……what the hell’s the point? I think Ghandi was, arguably, the bravest human being I’ve ever read about. Peaceful resistance…it was/is a brilliant idea. But even that cost tens of thousands of lives. Although we’re on the receiving end, it’s all our own fault….. Because we sat quietly by and said/did nothing as it became worse and worse. I’m old, I won’t be around too much longer so my rage and suffering will soon be laid to rest but what about your children and their children? Will they be scurrying across the border into Mexico to look for work, cheap day labor to send all we can back to our families to live as well as they can on a pittance? For decades I was canned from decent jobs, villified, physically attacked. For what? For trying to shake people awake to what was happening around them. People like me could SEE IT! Could see the treachery, the whore-ing out of our “leaders”. Ironic, don’t you think? The ones who SAW the treason and tried to DO something about it were called “traitors” or “conspiracy nuts” by those that saw the same but were too afraid or a part OF the ruining of this country and did NOTHING! Bottom line, all we can do is hope our creator will stop it all before there’s another slaughter like Russia, Germany, Ukraine, Serbia….etc..etc ad nauseum. Man wasn’t meant to rule man….too corrupt, prone to evil and greed…too ignorant to know his own way. Sigh, it sucks.

  • FC

    Shotgun blast thru the windshield is effective. If they won’t come out of their house, a few molotov cocktails thru the windows will bring ‘em out.

  • Mike

    So, Sand, let me get this straight. You’re saying these Libertarians are just a few bad apples. You’re just like the cops and the copsuckers! You don’t wanna do anything about cops. You just wanna privatize jackbooted thuggery and destroy the government, because what does the Constitution mean? It’s just words. Money talks.

  • ken nakajima

    @no more no it doesnt need to stop these cops need to be shot in front of every one and every other killer cop needs to meet the same fate as for not every cop is bad give me some goddamn proof that not every cop is bad then maybe just maybe ill believe that

  • Sand

    If you don’t understand that the actions of a few do not logically refute a point, I don’t know what else to say to you. “a few bad apples” does not apply to police because by definition, because all patrol police rob and extort. The legal system has explicit laws prescribing immunity and double standards for police. This is not a matter of a few bad apples because these rules apply to ALL POLICE. The non aggression principle does not by definition embrace relocation of indians, or obedience to ayn rand and murray rothbard. The NAP by definition advocates NON AGGRESSION. good god. How hard is this to understand?

  • mitsu

    these terrorist thugs need to have their faces plastered everywhere. not only that but also the faces of everyone of their family members. if they can do this to an unarmed citizen not breaking any laws then they are more than capable of doing this to anyone, their own family included. post their family members pics online and whatever facebook, myspace, etc you can find for them just to get the word out that the family members could be in danger of abuse by these thugs.

    seriously, if these thugs can do this this, then you have to really worry about the family of these thugs. who knows what abuse they could be suffering right now if these monsters in any way shape or form bring their work home with them.

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  • Patdog

    Officer Jay Cicinelli was there
    Officer Kenton Hampton was there
    Officer Manny Ramos was there
    Officer Joe Wolfe was there
    Officer James Blatney

    The sixth officer would have been a sargent called to the scene due to the use of a Taser. There are two patrol sargents not reporting for duty at the moment who may have been on duty that night.

  • Shae

    This makes me sick, the man was obviously disturbed and not in total mental health. Those cops should be fired and face prosecution, because on that day they were no better than common criminals.

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  • joe from tampa

    shoot a cop, save a life.

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