75 percent of 760 AM listeners in San Diego think Muslims should register on national database

Published On August 27, 2010 | By Georgia Sand | Articles

poll on 760 AM talk radio, based in San Diego, asks its listeners the following:

During a time of war, should we register as many practicing Muslims as we can find in a national database?

No – it’s an invasion of privacy.

Yes - gun owners have to, why not Muslims?

The poll results currently are 75% in favor of forcing Muslims to register, 25% against. Featuring loathsome personalities such as Michael Savage, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck, 760 AM is undoubtedly a standard right-wing propaganda machine. Thus, the results of this poll are admittedly skewed, and not representative of the general American population (and who knows how many people even responded to this).

Even so, it appears there is at least a non-negligible group of Americans out there who are basically Nazis, plain and simple. I remember the days when liberal protesters compared George Bush to Hitler, or certain Republicans to Nazis, and I recall thinking at that time those tactics were a bit extreme.

Apparently I was mistaken.

Such comparisons may be misguided for some Republicans or conservatives, but it has shown to be a largely accurate portrayal of at least these conservatives who listen to 760AM radio in San Diego.

It is no longer extreme, if referring to this particular group of people. Arbitrary compulsory registration is exactly what the Nazis did to the Jewish population of Germany. The Nazis did not kill 6 million Jewish people overnight and go from being perfectly amicable one day to burning them in ovens the next. It started with small steps. They instituted certain restrictions or regulations, then it was mandatory yellow stars, then it was curfews; it was the culmination of many smaller civil liberty infringements that eventually led to mass murder in concentration camps.

There is no logical differentiation between these two situations. Any claim that Muslims are more dangerous than Jews is an entirely subjective and arbitrary distinction. Certainly, the Germans, as misinformed and inaccurate as they were, thought Jewish people were dangerous and harmful to society. Otherwise they wouldn’t have focused so much effort on completely rooting them out of society.

As such, any claim that Muslims are more dangerous, more harmful, or somehow worse than Jews in Nazi Germany, is purely subjective, and still offers no logical distinction between forcing Muslims to register during wartime versus forcing Jews to wear a yellow star. The distinction might as well be that such a measure would differ from Nazi Germany because the word “Muslim” begins with an “M” and “Jew” begins with a “J.”

The poll of course is worded in incredibly biased terms. “During a time of war” is juxtaposed with impliedly petty concerns of “privacy.” People forget that it is during times of war that civil liberties prove most important. A government that abuses civil liberties during wartime demonstrates just how tyrannical and ugly it is capable of being. Further, and more importantly, the qualification of “during a time of war” is essentially meaningless because this country is always at war.

I am 25 years old and in my lifetime, there have been 2 wars voted on by Congress, and about 12 other military actions by the United States involving bombing, killing and other things you don’t learn in school (see here). The War on Terror has been going on for over 1/3 of my lifetime. So the distinction again, is meaningless. “During a time of war” has no import; this nation is constantly at war, so the implication of this poll is that Muslims should almost always be subject to some kind of compulsory registration on a national database.

The words “as many practicing Muslims as we can find” also are incredibly disturbing, as they evoke images of stalking, wiretapping, following or even accosting American Muslims while they go about their private business, to see if and when they “practice” Islam. That so many of 760AM’s listeners think this is a great idea is deeply troubling.

The great irony of all this is that I’m willing to bet many of these conservatives are the same types that rail against Obama, his socialism, and other types of collectivist ideology. What they fail to realize is that forcing random Muslims to register on a national database is the ultimate form of collectivism.

It is centrally-controlled, centrally-planned management (be it discrimination, subjugation, robbery, deprivation or oppression) of a group of people under the claim that it is for the “good of the whole,” the safety of all and the betterment of society. The idea that because some Muslims commit violence, all Muslims should be subject to discrimination, deprivation of liberty and humiliation operates on the exact same logic underlying socialism and communism. These conservatives do not truly have any anti-collectivist or pro-freedom agenda. What they want is freedom to do the things they want, and socialism for the particular issues they deem appropriate.

This nation is already a police state. The number of bans on victimless crimes is insane. In most states in this country, a person can be arrested for doing absolutely nothing.  The United States incarcerates more of its own people than any other country in the world.  Why add one more offense against liberty to the list? Enough is enough.

In the words of the great Ron Burgundy, go fuck yourself, San Diego!***

***Yes I realize the irony of me blaming San Diego for the actions of a few weirdos in San Diego, especially in light of my arguments above, but I really really had to work that line in somehow.

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About The Author

Georgia (George) Sand received her B.A. from UCLA and her J.D. from the University of San Diego School of Law. She enjoys beer, jogging, the beach and music in her spare time.
  • Tara

    Just tell a right wing republican that you want to microchip them and see how they will jump to the offensive side of this topic but in reality it is the very same discussion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pages/Abuse-Is-Not-Protection/131451616894365?v=wall Donnie Cole

    this is very well written. honestly I my self at the beginning of this story thought to my self that would be good for all faith’s to do, taking for granted that it should guarantee people registering a faith the rights under that faith respectively and accordingly and not be mistreated, accordingly .

    Now, not @ all.

    my tattoo is all the registration I need to prove my faith, If I did not feel that way (” I “) would not have chosen to ‘Mark, my temple’ with the sign of that faith, so they know if they feel they absolutely must, judge me they can do so with respect to my beliefs. but only I can trully judge ME

  • http://bit.ly/bk0ohP The Georgia Yankee

    What’s really scary is that we’ve got idiots like Hannity, Beck and Limbaugh egging these gullible fools on. Sooner or later, someone’s going to get hurt, and the radio instigators will stand there, protesting their innocence . . .

  • http://www.theweirdexplained.info Bob

    Those that vote NO should consider this: If belonging to a religeon is a constitutional right and shouldn’t be “registered”, why should objects that are constitutionally protected be registered as well?

    It’s using one extreme (an idea to registering Muslims) in a effort to show how extreme requiring people to register their guns.

    Oh, people are already registered by their religion and creed, it’s called the census. Indirectly, but still they know where you are.

  • Davi Barker – The Muslim Agorist

    Let’s see them prove I’m a Muslim beyond a reasonable doubt in front of 12 of my peers. Because I will not register.

  • john “goodiemonster”

    “but it has shown to be a largely accurate portrayal of at least these conservatives who listen to 760AM radio in San Diego.”

    It is (or was) the same way with 560AM in the Bay Area and was one of the main reasons I left conservatism behind back in 2005. Back then, the two worst offenders were the morning hosts Lee Rodgers and Melanie Morgan (not to mention Savage and all the rest). These people were/are not interested in individual freedom or liberty. They are social and religious conservatives and quite honestly bigots and yes, Fascists.

    “These conservatives do not truly have any anti-collectivist or pro-freedom agenda. What they want is freedom to do the things they want, and socialism for the particular issues they deem appropriate.”

    Indeed! And they see no irony in this what-so-ever.

  • Jenn

    Bob – I don’t know if I would give this poll that benefit of the doubt. Meaning, yes it is possible they meant that registering guns is extreme and bad, and so is registering Muslims, but I doubt that’s the case, especially given the results. They are not that logically consistent. They probably don’t want gun registration because guns are awesome and cool, but want Muslim registration because by god, those people are dangerous! I don’t think they intended to show that both are wrong; they probably were thinking more along the lines of “if I can’t have my gun rights, then I should be entitled to infringe upon someone else’s rights too.” That’s generally how mainstream politics works.

    The census is another issue, but also problematic. I have heard theories that the census was used to round up Japanese people for internment camps during WWII. So I don’t agree with the census either.

  • Jenn

    Davi – I’m inclined to say unfortunately, that some of those 12 peers may be as crazy as these folks. And it really should never have to get to that point where you are on trial for practicing a religion and refusing to register on a database!

  • http://www.theweirdexplained.info Bob

    Jenn: If a small, statistically insignificant number of Muslims perpertrate crimes against others, and therefore ALL need registered…

    Now take that statement and replace Muslims with “Guns” or “Gun Owners”.

    Yesterday, 6 million guns did not kill anybody. Maybe 500 did. And we have to register based on that percentage!!?!?!

  • http://www.theweirdexplained.info Bob

    Davi: They will associate skin color and hertitage with religion. If I”m a white male I must be Christian. If I am an Asian, I must be Shinto. If I have a Bindi on my forehead, I must be Hindu.

    “So what if we register someone who isn’t Muslim… Better safe than sorry” will be the excuse offered.

    Register no one and no thing.

  • Jenn

    Bob – I don’t agree with compulsory gun registration. I am just saying that I doubt the people who wrote this poll were trying to make the point that BOTH are bad. Plain and simple, they like guns but hate Muslims.

  • Jenn

    Register no one and nothing. I agree with that completely, Bob. Thank you everyone for reading and the discussion!

  • http://www.theweirdexplained.info Bob

    Jenn: As I see it, one can not know the mind of any pollster based on one question. You can presume, speculate or anything else, but without speaking to the pollster it’s near impossible to know their state of mind.

    My reasoning for this is simple. We have two people who disagree on the purpose of the poll. Add more people, then more purposes will be thought up. They are the bane of all sentient people… pollsters and politicians. At times I believe Shakespear was correct.

  • http://bit.ly/bk0ohP The Georgia Yankee

    No, it’s a terribly constructed poll question. What it I disagree with registering Muslims, but for a reason other than the one the author stupidly proposes? What if I like the idea of registering Muslims but hate registering guns – mightn’t the appearance of the (irrelevant) gun registration topic skew my answer?

    Too many people think that putting together a poll is easy and simply, and wind up with totally worthless crap like this, that they eagerly display to their fellow morons, and they they point to the results as indicative of popular opinion.

    Bob is correct – divining popular opinion from answers to single questions is terribly difficult, and obviously not a job to be left to amateurs, let alone stupid, dogmatic bigoted amateurs. The most trusted opinion polls have carefully constructed questions and answers, and some of the best consist of dozens of questions designed to overcome all the psychological barriers and obstacles people allow their minds to construct when they take polls.

    At any rate, whenever you see a poll where the “yes” and “no” answers have reasons attached, like this one, you know it was a poll built by idiot amateurs and not worth a pike of dogsqueeze.

    Jenn, a very nice article and a wonderful job of exposing the San Diego RW. It’d be interesting to clean this poll up – make it scientifically valid – and present it to a cross-section of actual voters nationwide, just to get an idea of how widespread this particular strain of anti-American idiocy has become, and judge how big a job we have before us.

  • Guy Fawkes

    One thing Jenn left out in her list of what the Nazi’s did to jews was gun registration. So I will agree with Bob, in my answer – NONE of the above. No to registering guns, and no to registering Muslims, or any other group or religion. McCarthyism needs to stay dead.

  • Jenn

    Good point, Guy.

  • Jenn

    Update: it is now 73% yes, 27% no (not that that makes any appreciable difference).

    http://www.760kfmb.com/Global/category.asp?C=149752&nav=menu1609_1

  • Paula Parmeley Carter

    It disgust me that this poll even exist. What is wrong with people?

  • Tom Jones

    A bad idea, yes. But how many people here are aware of the fact that a Muslim is not allowed to have an allegiance higher than allegiance to the Qur’an and Islam? This includes the US Constitution or any nation, as these are “Man’s inventions”.

  • Jenn

    I’m pretty sure the Bible/Jesus declares Christianity is the law above all. Jesus specifically says to honor him above all other people, including one’s parents. I’m not sure that Jesus ever says to obey government, a constitution or to respect laws. The closest you can get maybe is that one parable about rendering unto Caesar that which belongs to Caesar – even then, that seems less an example of deference to government than a matter of returning property to its rightful owner. The nature of religion is that it calls for absolutes. This is not specific to Islam.

    “If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country.” – EM Forster.

    Muslims are not the only ones who have allegiances to something other than the government or the constitution. Should we register all these people? Perhaps EM Forster should be on this national database as well…

  • http://youtube.com/truth4children T4C

    “Register no one and nothing…I like that.” – I’m sure you do. Has it occurred to the author of this post that if society were to actually implement this neo-liberal standard, there would be no accountability of any kind for all sorts of people ranging from drunk drivers and child molesters to civil officials who are either ineligible or unqualified to serve in public office. (Hasn’t kept your boy Barry from the Oval Office, but I digress.)

    More to the point, because of your self-described affinity for beer and what appears to be a muddy moral worldview, I’m not entirely convinced you should be sermonizing on the teachings of Jesus Christ. The bible is clear that all who call themselves Christians are to submit to the ruling authorities, for God himself has placed those authorities in power for his purposes. However, what you so awkwardly tried to articulate is that, yes, if the government goes against the law of God — the Holocaust is a great example of the failures of so many professing Christians — then we are to disobey that government.

    But if the nature of “religion” is absolutes, then what, pray tell, is the religion you’ve created here in this post, asserting that it’s ABSOLUTELY immoral to register a segment of the population that worships a book calling for the upending of all civil law in favor of Shari’ah law? Is this not an absolutist statement in itself?

    And to think the public believes hypocrites are only in the church….

  • Jenn

    T4C – so, how’s all that accountability and “the law of god” panning out in the current system? How’s all that registration working out in the apparently so glorious and functional system we have right now? Oh that’s right… it doesn’t work. It’s bullshit. People who take a leak in public and 17 year olds who have sex with each other are registered as sex offenders. Sex offender regulations have gotten so that in some areas of the nation, sex offenders cannot live ANYWHERE without breaking the law…. so they leave in droves on to another city. Similarly, DUI laws are becoming increasingly absurd, where people are getting DUIs not for driving dangerously, but for failing to turn on a blinker or having a broken tail light.

    This country’s military is one of the most bloated, overfed monstrosities on the face of this planet. United States military expenditure (as of 2008) accounts for 41.5% of the military spending of the world. We spend about 7 times more than China, which has about 5 times as many people. We wage arbitrary wars and the government justifies them with lies.

    This country imprisons more of its own people than any other country in the world, proportionally, for non-violent crimes.

    When do those noble and Christ-like Christians step in and enforce “God’s law” ? Pray tell, when do Christians decide when the government is going against “the law of god”? Do you even have a clear idea of what the law of god is? Would Jesus approve of arbitrary detentions, arbitrary arrests, and lifetime imprisonment of people who were transporting or smoking a plant? Would jesus approve of our bloated military and police abuse of power? Would jesus approve of SWAT teams busting into innocent peoples’ homes, shooting the wrong person, and suffering ZERO punishment?

    If you say yes, then Christianity is just as oppressive, evil and radical as Islam. If you say no, then I guess it is you who are in the awkward position of justifying how exactly Christianity promotes disobeying government when it is against “the law of god.” Or I guess god let all this murder, robbery, and imprisonment happen, so it must be good. My god, what an idiotic tautology!

    Has it ever occurred to YOU, that if you were actually to implement the logic and dictates of your convoluted, antiquated, bigoted and poorly written bible, that this world would largely resemble a genocidal, sexist, violent society similar to Nazi Germany (but far less organized, with plenty of stoning, laws about what kinds of food you can eat, what fabric you can wear, sacrifice of sons, incest between daughters and fathers, hatred of gays, subjugation of women, etc.)?

    I don’t hear the Christians complaining loudly, if at all. It seems YOU, are the one with the muddy moral world view. You, like the Bible, ooze of inconsistencies, lack of logic, bigotry, and your brainwashed world view disgusts me to the core. The bible is anything but clear – about anything. The last words I would use to describe the bible would be any of the following – “clear,” “logical,” “consistent.”

    I never said anything was wrong with absolutes. I absolutely believe in the dignity and freedom of my fellow human being.

    I merely made the point that religion often is about absolutes, and that this is not something particular to Islam. I think it’s about as morally correct to register people who believe in Shari’ah law as it is morally correct to register pseudo-intellectual, beer-hating phonies such as yourself.

    It is quite the opposite. I, unlike you, do believe in moral absolutes that do not change depending on what religion, what skin color, what gender, what plant, or what uniform is at issue. It is your muddy moral world view that utterly lacks consistency, and is a tangled patchwork of nonsense… “well— I don’t like Nazis, so that was against god’s law…. and I don’t like Muslims so I guess the American government is NOT against god’s law despite all the violence, killing, robbery, imprisonment and oppression.”

    And to think, people believe that organized religion breeds ignorance… oh wait, they were right about that….

  • Jenn

    T4C – in addressing all your self-righteous yet irrelevant points, I almost forgot to point out – you seem to think I have this terribly muddy moral view, and am incorrect in likening this registration to the actions of Nazis, but you haven’t set forth a single reason why, except that you don’t like Shari’ah law. Don’t you think the Nazis disliked Jewish peoples’ beliefs, customs and religion? Don’t you think Nazis believed Jews were a severe threat to the nationalism, patriotism, race, economy and identity of other Germans? What makes your hatred of Shariah law and Muslims different from their concerns? Please give an actual, logical distinction before going on a marginally tangential rant about neo-liberals and hypocrites.

  • http://accusedmadam.blogspot.com/ Vicky Gallas

    Thank you for the extremely well-written article Jenn. In my opinion the poll results would be the same or worse (higher than the 75%) in Central Florida, so San Diego isn’t isolated. I think it’s the drugs – prescription drugs, psychotropic drugs – and much of the US population has lost the ability to think.

    Reading your article made me realize one factor that I had not previously taken into account: A 20 year-old has grown-up with the War on Terror and police state USA and been subjected to indoctrination for half his or her life. Do we really wonder why they consider all of this normal and acceptable? My 23 year-old son listens to me and I was born and raised in Europe so he is an exception, but what I see and hear around here is closer to the mentality of “T4C”. It is scary and I only wish that I could go home, though this is not possible for me.

    Thank you for the enlightening article!

  • http://youtube.com/truth4children T4C

    After bemoaning the state of the nation (and by extension the world at large), Jenn said:
    “When do those noble and Christ-like Christians step in and enforce “God’s law” ? Pray tell, when do Christians decide when the government is going against “the law of god”?”

    To be clear and put the question into the context of your own words, are you calling for the U.S. to impose the standards of the 10 commandments upon society at large (which the Constitution has already done in principle)? Does that mean that there are to be civil consequences for those who, I don’t know, say mock and blaspheme the very God behind that expression of law? What does that mean for you, Jenn? That application would mean you are in very serious trouble with the authorities — and with God. Or is it only applicable when and where you subjectively decide it to be? What exactly do you suggest that we do about illegal or improper arrests, state-sponsored terrorism and the like? Call for a vote? Is this truly a legislative problem? Is there a fix for this at the ballot box? Or will mass civil disobedience forever protect us from criminals in positions of power? In case you missed the 1960s, despite the widespread “awakening” among so-called progressives, all we were left with in the wake of “enlightenment” was the right for women to kill babies and a decadent financial system that set the stage for all the terrible conditions we find ourselves in today. So much for revolution.

    The fact of the matter is your very choice of language reveals your wholesale rejection of any absolute standard for right and wrong, because you believe religion has something to do with it, i.e. relative to the doctrine of any particular belief system. Both ideas cannot be true; either morality is universally known/understood or it is not. But see, only someone who has made little effort to understand the vast differences between the monotheistic religions of the world would suggest Islam is the same as the Judeo-Christian worldview. You belittle me for asserting that shariah law is in direct opposition to our U.S. Constitution, and then turn around and ask me to explain what shariah law is. Instead of wasting the time of the readers of this thread, go ahead and google what happens in Saudi Arabia on a daily basis. Research what the koran commands that “true believers” do to those who do not accept mohammed and shariah. Stop pretending that all “gods” are God — that would mean that since you clearly worship your own ideology, that makes you god as well. We both know neither one of us is deity.

    Do you have any idea what the origin of “allah” is? Ever wonder why muslims are ordered to make a pilgrimage to mecca to worship a meteorite? No? You should, because it may lead you to a better understanding of what’s going in the world and why — unless your worldview makes no allowance for the spiritual dimension.

    And please try to be a bit less intellectually dishonest by comparing the OLD covenant in the bible — intended specifically for the Jewish people under the authority of Moses — with what the koran says muslims must do in the here and now. To suggest that reveals a startling theological ignorance about a subject you profess to have enough grasp of to use to bolster your original argument. Insults may work at the local Starbucks, but snarkiness isn’t going to make your moral promiscuity any more palatable.

  • http://bit.ly/bk0ohP The Georgia Yankee

    T4C said “To be clear and put the question into the context of your own words, are you calling for the U.S. to impose the standards of the 10 commandments upon society at large (which the Constitution has already done in principle)?”

    This statement begs the question: Exactly what standards of the 10 Commandments does the Constitution impose on the US in principle?

    In fact, the Constitution is a charter of government, not society. It grants rights and responsibilities to its various branches, and reserves many rights to the states and to the people. What standards does it impose on society if we understand “society” to mean the people by whose authority the Constitution was written, ratified, and remains operable?

  • Dylboz

    The most disgusting result of SB1070 has been the open call from Arizona “conservatives” that EVERYONE be asked to show his or her papers, in order to avoid the appearance of racial profiling. Their “reasoning”, if one can be charitable enough to call it that, goes something like this, “you have to show ID to vote, to drive, to buy liquor, etc. so you should have to show ID just to exist in the 3d space arbitrarily designated as “Arizona.” Fuck. Them.

    As an aside, I grew up in Muslim theocracies and Arab Nationalist dictatorships, because by dad was a Fullbright scholar who took 2 year teaching gigs all over the world. Speaking from experience, these were genuinely horrible places to live in many ways, but the people who live there are, in fact, fully co-equal human beings who deserve to live in peace just as much as you or I do. Certainly, I do not want that sort of government here in America, but I think it is important to realize that the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Queda, the Mujahideen, Hamas, etc. we’re created and financed – and thoroughly radicalized – by the CIA, Mossad and MI6 for various colonial and Cold War reasons. So, they are a consequence of, not even necessarily a reaction to, the pervasive and invasive statism of the Western Powers.

    I think that if the meddling and manipulation would cease, the moderating influence of modern “free” trade would quickly go along way to taking the teeth out of radical Islam. It’s easy to get recruits and wage jihad when there is an obvious conflict and a battle of ideologies, but when there is no existential threat with which to deal, then it is much harder to pull people away from their own lives, from their entrepreneurial pursuits, and their families.

    Muslims actually have a long and storied history as traders and businessmen, and their golden age under the Ottoman Empire was characterized by multicultural cosmopolitanism, advances in the humanities and science, especially mathematics and astronomy, and they were very tolerant of other religious faiths.

    That’s why, until this recent war of aggression, there were communities of Christians and Jews living in Iraq, Iran, Syria and Lebanon. In fact, in stark contrast to this country’s apoplexy over the so-called “Ground Zero” mosque, Lebanon has just finished rebuiling a synagogue in Beirut (http://www.zeropartypolitics.com/2010/08/ground-zero-synagoguelebanon-becoming.html), with the full blessing of Hizbu’llah’s own Hassan Nasrallah, who said “we respect Judaism, just as we respect Christianity. Our only problem is with Israel.” And why not, when Israel has made repeated aggressive incursions into their territory, threatening to “bomb them back to the stone age?”

    Simply put, I have no more fear of Shari’ah Law than I do of any authority who wishes to impose their will on my by recourse to coercive violence. And, if you’re really honest with yourself, you’ll realize that there is a far greater threat to you liberty, your ability to earn a living and provide for your family, to practice your own religion and educate your children as you see fit, and to control what goes into your body for purposes of nutrition, medication or recreation, right here in America – in Washington D.C. to be exact – than anyone you might worry about in Tehran or Damascus or Gaza.

  • http://bit.ly/bk0ohP The Georgia Yankee

    The danger is greatest from the government we have because it’s the government we have. However, it’s appropriate to fear Shar’ia law, and those who advocate its imposition here in the US, because the limitations on liberty under it are far greater than any we coulde imagine in our culture, and the punishments for violation are barbaric – stoning someone to death for adultery because a religious judge essentially had a hunch they were guilty? And discussions among the legal community about the proper sized stone to use when carrying out such an execution?

    No doubt we must be eternally vigilant against intrusions on our liberty by the government we have, but let’s never lose track of what life could be like under some of the alternatives . . .

  • Greg M

    Jenn-
    Though the thought of such a national database is obviously outrageous, you can not blame the conservative movement in that. Glenn Beck, I am not a fan personally I think he is a conspiracy theorist that is just a little wacko. Michael Savage, is just a pseudo-conservative, because that is where the money is. How ever with such a small demographic area, and not knowing exactly who is actually taking a part of this poll. The numbers can be totally flawed. I am probably going to get blasted, but, yes I do listen to Limbaugh, Hannity, and Levin. And they are open on bringing out that Muslims should not be treated differently than any other person. That being said. I realize people are commenting on the Arizona law also. Though technically there is no such thing as a ‘right to privacy’ one can interpret as the law of the land there is. However, the Arizona law dictates that one can only ask about the citizenship after it is determined that a law has been broken. Now I am not for stop and demand laws. But there has to be laws that protect the people. The last time I checked, if I leave the country I have to carry my passport with me at all times. Why should it be different here?
    I do like this website and agree with most of what everyone is doing. These laws restricting filming etc, is a blatant violation of the First Amendment. And being that I own a business where I am in court I do see a lot of things that are just sickening. I can make a list of things especially one where the state I am in, believes that what I do is unlawful practice of law. Which is, I purchase judgments and then enforce them on my own behalf. Meaning Pro-se. But because I am not a licensed attorney, the UPL Committee considers it UPL(Unlicensed Pracitce of Law). I know I am going on a wild tangent.

    But, I guess my point being, is I wouldnt generalize this Muslim national database hypothetical into conservative, liberal, etc thing. Nor would I blame the talk hosts of the station. It is just polls like this, you actually do not know who is polling, there are no actual poll takers, it is purely electronic and has no actual statistical value.

  • JohnnyX

    More great work, Jenn.

    Every time I read stories like this I’m reminded of the book _Deer Hunting with Jesus_. This book convinces me that if all we did was educate the “rednecks”, we’d have instant progressives. People who could make a vote based on what makes sense, common logic, and rational thinking, and not based on what AM radio (or their preacher from the pulpit) tells them to do.

  • http://piratenews.org/pedophile-jewish-rabbis-kill-babies.html Dragonator

    I support registration of all jews, since jews have already confessed to perping the terrorist attacks on 9/11/2001, in writing and on TV. Google Larry Siverstein, Israeli Mossad dressed as Arabs, Operation Northwoods, USS Liberty.

    BTW Hitler and 150,000 top Nazis were jews.

    Did you know that rabbis suck penis of little babies during bris circumcision ritual? It’s called oral suction, and jews claim it’s protected as religious freedom, even when it kills babies.

    “A circumcision ritual practiced by some Orthodox Jews has alarmed city health officials, who say it may have led to three cases of herpes – one of them fatal – in infants. But after months of meetings with Orthodox leaders, city officials have been unable to persuade them to abandon the practice. The practice is known as oral suction, or in Hebrew, metzitzah b’peh: after removing the foreskin of the penis, the practitioner, or mohel, sucks the blood from the wound to clean it.”
    -Andy Newman, New York Times, “City Questions Circumcision Ritual After Baby Dies,” August 26, 2005

    Time to ban the jewish religions of Talmud, Zohar, Kaballa and Bohemian Grove.

    Kosher ADL writes all the Police State propaganda to brainwash the cops to overthrow the constitutions, such as the MIAC Report.

    Divide and conquer you dumb goy.

    http://images.piratenews.org/jews_at_work2.gif

  • http://bit.ly/bk0ohP The Georgia Yankee

    RE: Dragonator:

    Wow.

    Just wow.

  • http://piratenews.org/pedophile-jewish-rabbis-kill-babies.html Dragonator

    Re Georgia Yankee:

    Read what the jews say. Google AshkeNazi and Khazar. Forget banning mosques, USA must ban all synogogues and put all jews in re-education camps and all their assets seized (unless they already say Israel must be nuked and has no right to exist, like http://JewsAgainstZionism.com).

    As a soldier with a wife who’s a retired disabled soldier from the never-ending 20-year-long Iraq War, that’s genocided 2.6-million Iraqi Semites (Arabs and Christians) and genocided 70,000 US soldiers and disabled 700,000 US soldiers, who is a combat troop in Operation El Dorado Canyon (surprise attack on Libya based on a covert false flag Israeli Mossad radio broadcast from Libya), who’s tired of naked body scanners in airports and court houses based on the 9/11 Arab suicide hijackers who are still alive giving interviews to BBC News, I’m interested in IFF — Identify Friend or Foe — which is Rule #1 in any war. My job in USAF was nuking active US military bases in highly populated areas, and nuking West Germany if it dared establish its own govt in the past 60 years. I’m now paid Social Security SSI Disability of $1,000/year, after a 13-year legal battle, but a jewish illegal alien from Russia gets $60,000/year Social Security SSI Disability while working full-time and never paying SS taxes. I know who the enemy is, and it aint Arab Semites. Who stole $30-trillion from Congress in the past 2 years of banker bailouts, Arab bankers that ban interest on loans, or jewish banksters that own the private “Federal” Reserve Bank that counterfeits all US “dollars” and keeps 100% of fed income taxes? I’m not buying their kosher shit anymore.

    Historical Gulf War Veterans Information System (GWVIS) Reports (2007 is last report)
    76,000 dead US troops, 12,000 die per year
    http://www.vba.va.gov/REPORTS/gwvis/historical/index.asp
    http://www1.va.gov/rac-gwvi/docs/GWVIS_May2007.pdf
    Total number of VA disability claims filed: 1,620,906
    Percentage of combat troops that filed Disability Claims 36%
    http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=41241
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2205254052040284660

    Semite.
    1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and ARABS – b : a descendant of these peoples – 2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language.
    —Merriam Webster Dictionary

    “A ‘Semite’ is any person living in that area, including Arabs and Christians. It’s time we start talking about ‘The Other AntiSemitism’. A Semite is not a Jew living in America or Europe.”
    —Ralph Nader (Arab-American from Lebannon), Arab-American Business conference, C-SPAN, 2003

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars
    http://www.khazaria.com
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/Ashkenazim.html
    http://www.JewsAgainstZionism.com

    Israeli Law of Return only allows citizenship for jews
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

    The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel Where Christianity Is a Felony
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/israel.htm

    “Just the Jews are humans, the Non-Jews are no humans, but cattle.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Kerithuth 6b page 78, Jebhammoth 61a (goyim = human cattle)

    “The Non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Midrasch Talpioth 225

    “The Non-Jews have to be avoided, even more than sick pigs.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Orach Chaiim 57, 6a

    “Sexual intercourse with Non-Jews is like sexual intercourse with animals.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Kethuboth 3b

    “The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Zohar II, 4b

    “Everywhere they (the Jews) come, they will be the princes of the lords.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 104a

    “Jews always have to try to deceive Non-Jews.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Zohar I, 168a

    “Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Babha Kama 113a

    “The possessions of the goyim are like an ownerless desert, and everybody (every Jew) who seizes it, has acquired it.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, IV/3/54b

    “When the Messiah comes, all will be slaves of the Jews.”
    -Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Erubin 43b

    “We have a case of the Jew, a totally different species. The body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of members of all other nations of the world. Bodies of the Gentiles are in vain. An even greater difference is in regard to the soul A non-Jewish soul comes from three satanic spheres, while the Jewish soul stems from holiness.”
    -Rabbi Mendel Schneerson, Lubavitcher friend George Bush Sr

    “A proselyte who is under the age of three years and a day is permitted to marry a priest.”
    -Rabbi Simeon ben Yohai, creator of Kabbalah

    “As soon as she was of age one hour and did not protest she cannot protest any more.”
    -Kethuboth 11a, jewish Babylonian Talmud

    “Virginity comes back to the little girl under three years.”
    -Kethuboth 11b, Footnote 7, jewish Babylonian Talmud

    “When a grown up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when a girl is less than this 6, it is as if one puts a finger into the eye 7?”
    -Kethuboth 11b, jewish Babylonian Talmud

    “Because a boy under 9 is sexually immature, he can’t throw guilt on the active offender, morally or legally.”
    -Sanhedrin 55a, jewish Babylonian Talmud

    “The intercourse of a small boy is not regarded as a sexual act.”
    -Kethuboth 11b, Footnote 1, jewish Babylonian Talmud

    “A circumcision ritual practiced by some Orthodox Jews has alarmed city health officials, who say it may have led to three cases of herpes – one of them fatal – in infants. But after months of meetings with Orthodox leaders, city officials have been unable to persuade them to abandon the practice. The practice is known as oral suction, or in Hebrew, metzitzah b’peh: after removing the foreskin of the penis, the practitioner, or mohel, sucks the blood from the wound to clean it.”
    -Andy Newman, New York Times, “City Questions Circumcision Ritual After Baby Dies,” August 26, 2005

    “Fuck Obama! White Power! Fuck the niggers! Obama, who even knows if he was born in the United States? We haven’t seen his birth certificate yet. I’m a jew, I’m Israel. Obama, I’m gonna teabag your ass and put it on youtube, faggot.”
    -White jews in Israel, June 2009
    video: http://www.tu.tv/videos/feeling-the-hate-in-jerusalem-on-eve-of
    http://radarsite.blogspot.com/2009/06/youth-in-israel-speak-out-about-obamas.html
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1244371044168&pagename=JPArticle/ShowFull

  • Jenn

    All those questions, T4C. I don’t think you grasp the philosophy of personal freedom. It is not subjective at all. It depends not on my whim, on my subjective values, but on voluntary transactions. All voluntary transactions are acceptable, all coercive or violent ones are not. This is a brightline rule that is neither difficult to understand, nor muddy as you so charge.

    You talk about the will of the people meaning that if 60% votes to murder the other 40%, this is perfectly fine, and that the “will of god” will prevent bad things from happening, but you show no logical reason why this the case. In the face of many injustices in America, you have no answer for why the “will of god” is a feasible philosophy to adopt in order to ensure that oppression does not occur.

    Citing to what happens on a daily basis in Saudi Arabia is inapposite. Again, it is your morals and philosophy that is muddy, indistinct. I need not examine what is going on in the rest of the world to decide what is going on here is utterly wrong; I do not engage in moral relativism. Either someone’s rights are being trampled on, or they are not. I don’t look at Saudi Arabia and go, “well, it’s worse there, so I guess that must mean its ok here.” Like Dylboz says, we have a lot more to fear from the actions of our own government, our own police and our own politicians, than from some hazy claim of terrorism and/or cultural domination by Muslims.

    You think Shariah law is in direct opposition to the Constitution? Wow, what a joke. Shariah law is across the world, and is a minority view in this country with no political power. But you know what is also in direct opposition to the Constitution, that does have a lot of power and sway and uses it every day on citizens? Our courts, our government and our police. You think arbitrary arrests and detentions are Constitutional? Where in the Constitution is the War on Drugs authorized? Where in the Constitution is the Draft authorized? Where in the Constitution is civil asset forfeiture authorized? Police have probably killed more civilians in the history of America than terrorists have. The average citizen is probably FAR more likely to be subject to wrongful arrest, detention, criminal charges, and unjust imprisonment or death from its own government than to die in a terrorist attack. These are things that happen all the time to American citizens, and instead of focusing on reforming the courts, the government and the police, you want to register Muslims because of some foggy fear of Shariah law that hasn’t even come close to being reality. There’s no way you can argue that this is NOT out of bigotry, prejudice, selective attention and hatred.

    Dragonator demonstrates my point well. If we use subjective valuation of cultures or religions and collectively apply such understanding to all members in a certain group, the results are tyrannical and devastating. T4C wants to register Muslims, Dragonator wants to register Jews. I’m sure someone out there wants to register Chinese people, or black people. Before long it won’t just be registration; it will be surveillance. When does it end? Where do you draw the line?

    There is probably something dangerous, evil and terrible about virtually every religious, cultural or political group on the face of the planet. You hate Muslims now; next thing you know it could be Christians (or Jews, as Dragonator proposes!)

  • Jenn

    And please, don’t use that whole old testament versus new testament crap. It’s a meaningless distinction. Is it in the Bible or not? Yes, it is. If it isn’t a legitimate part of Christianity, then Christians should get rid of it. If you think the old testament is so bad, just have the new testament be the bible; however, that clearly is not the case. Christians have made no outright rejection of the old testament, but merely try to weakly disassociate themselves from those ugly, violent, sexist parts when challenged. You are the one being intellectually dishonest. You know damn right what the old testament says. Plenty of Christians use it to justify hatred of gays, and people cite old testament verses all the time in church, in marriages, in rituals, and in everyday life. So how exactly, is the old testament merely directions meant only for Jews way back in the day?

    it is intellectually honest to recognize what is there and address it. It is not intellectually honest to say “well that’s not really what Christianity is about” even though it makes up the majority of the Bible, and Christians use language from it in the practice of their religion. I’m sure for every lame ass excuse you can make up for the violent parts in the bible, Muslims can come up with just as good of an excuse about the violent parts in the Koran. What’s the difference?

  • mark

    I find it interesting they stated that Muslim registration was somehow ok because “gun owners have to”. Um, they don’t. You have to pass a background check to purchase a gun from a dealer, but that’s it. If I sell a gun I own to another person…no check, no registration. Nor do I have to register the guns I currently own, or ones I acquire — for instance, inherited from an older relative.

    So this poll reflects more of their bizarre world view, where they think Sharia law is actually being proposed in this country or another (it isn’t, and it wouldn’t matter if they did: Sharia law applies only to Muslims. Kinda like how Jewish kosher laws don’t apply to Christians, and Mormon restrictions on coffee don’t either), or that Social Security is “out of money”. These people do not live in the fact-based rational world.

  • http://youtube.com/truth4children T4C

    “I don’t think you grasp the philosophy of personal freedom. It is not subjective at all. It depends not on my whim, on my subjective values, but on voluntary transactions. All voluntary transactions are acceptable, all coercive or violent ones are not.” — How Orwellian of you to contort the language to COERCE me into accepting YOUR definition of personal freedom. And here I thought I had the freedom to dissent.

    Ergo: “If we use subjective valuation of cultures or religions and collectively apply such understanding to all members in a certain group, the results are tyrannical and devastating.” Are you, individual person named Jenn, suggesting that your valuation of what Jews, Christians, and even Muslims believe in is not at all subjective — and that the application thereof is for the greatest good? Then what’s the difference between your position and the tyrant? What a ridiculous notion and how obviously and inherently contradictory. Your soapbox is nothing but a house of cards. See, if I’m wrong, all I’ve done is live my life obeying the commandments of Jesus Christ, which include loving my neighbor as myself. And to love my neighbor as myself is to show my neighbor when he or she is in error, just as I wish to be shown when I am in error.

    This is that message.

    You, on the other hand, seek to tolerate everything, no matter how vile it may be. It’s OK for the koran to call for infidels like you and i to submit or be murdered, but how dare Christ call himself the ONLY way, the ONLY truth, the ONLY life! Unlike mohamed the pedophile, Jesus didn’t call for people to be killed if they rejected him; quite the contrary. He warned his followers they would be mocked and ridiculed by the world. And yet your tolerance seeks to equate good with evil and right with wrong. It’s not only illogical, it’s madness.

    Let us reason together, not redefine concepts.

    Taking that a step a further: not once have I even suggested muslims should not be allowed to worship freely as citizens of this nation. But for you to spit on the grave of 3,000 americans in the name of “tolerance” and call it “freedom” is a disgrace. Period. And while I’m sure you frittered away a good chunk of your young adulthood calling for the impeachment of Dubya, you presumably are less vocal when it comes to he who has most recently subverted the document you claim to be defending. Barry soetoro has endorsed the mosque at Ground Zero; presumably so do you. What’s the difference?

    I subscribed to this blog because I know 9/11 was an inside job — but I also know it was muslims have committed tens of thousands of attacks since that terrible day. I know the federal reserve is printing the US into hyperinflation — but they’re no more at fault than your buddy who just bought the latest big-screen plasma on a maxed-out credit card. I subscribed to this blog not because i think all cops are bad — or muslims for that matter — but because the bible says we ALL fall short of the glory of God. That includes you and me. And part of taking a stand between good and evil is knowing where the line in the sand is. Can you honestly say that you even believe that a line exists? Or is that line only for policemen in jackbootS and politicians in DC?

  • http://youtube.com/truth4children T4C

    And as for the OT vs NT vs koran comments: unfortunately you’re incorrect about comparing the texts of the bible — upon which much of western culture has been founded — with mohammed. You’re lack of knowledge in this area is not uncommon, and i would encourage you to study up on it. I’m more than happy to get into a theological discussion with you, but just as long as you’re clear that the bible says being homosexual is no better or worse than being a muslim, a blasphemer or a liar.

    I can only presume you qualify.

  • Ryan F

    I’m usually very conservative. But this makes me fucking sick. Always shocked when my Christian brothers and sisters disregard the words of God to love others as we do ourselves and turn to blind hate.

  • Jenn

    I’m sorry T4C, but most of your points cannot be dignified with a response. You say to love your neighbors but want to register Muslims on a national database. You say that 9-11 was an inside job yet STILL seem to hold some kind bizarre hatred for Muslims. You have failed to address a single point I have made and make sweeping generalizations.

    I tolerate everything except violence, coercion and force. I don’t care what Muslims think or believe. I don’t care what Christians think or believe. They are just ideas. It only matters what they do. I will not tolerate force, violence or coercion, and in this country, these 3 things mostly come from our courts, our laws and our police. I can’t think of a single time a Muslim extorted me, stole my money or forced me to do things I did not want to do. The government, on the other hand, does it on a daily basis.

    If you think our government is great and perfect and think people (Muslims) should be punished merely for their ideas, beliefs, and because of a certain book they keep in their house, but will tolerate all kinds of violence, force, theft and coercion merely because it is under the auspices of government and “legitimate” authority, then this is where we will fundamentally, and irreconcilably differ. There’s no point talking about it.

  • http://www.musicbyday.com Marvin

    It’s so sad the way the right wing lunatics have responded to Barack Obama’s Presidency. He wanted to move this country forward into the light, and these fucking morons are trying to pull us all back to the dark ages.

    This is turning into some real good vs. evil shit, and I’m not sure we’re going to win anymore.

  • StupidGirl

    Why don’t they put everyone’s religion on their ID card, like they do with race and sex?
    That way it would be easier for the cops to discriminate right away, no need to look them up.

  • http://www.rikwaller.com/ Benin

    I always wondered who listened to AM radio. Now I know. Morons.

  • http://www.debtconsolidationavenue.com/ Dertive

    You’ve got to remember that these are just simple San Diegans. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West.

  • http://www.soundpill.org/ Sean

    Fuck that. They’re a bunch of opportunistic house-flippers and USMC imports who need a scapegoat for why their precious little boom town that they invaded with their evangelical christianity and general white trashery is falling apart.

  • Jenn

    Marvin – Obama is just as bad as these right wing idiots; he just wants to restrict freedom and choice in other ways. He has done jackshit to end the war, end Guantanamo, end the drug war, he’s against gay marriage, and is probably one of the most wasteful presidents in the history of the US. I can’t believe the people who voted for him actually fell for that “hope” and “change” bullshit. I mean, really? You’re highly educated and running for president, and “hope” and “change” is the best you can think of? Some garbage empty rhetoric. But I guess hey, it worked. Who am I to talk.

    The Obama lovers are trying just as hard to pull us back into the dark ages with their misguided and stupid economic policies. It’s a red flag when people start treating one man (Obama) like he’s a goddamn messiah. It’s like people are just so fucking lazy they just want to place all power and hope in one man and pray to god he will fix everything. It’s such a joke. Cult of personality kind of crap, kind of like with Mao, Stalin, Hitler, that sort of thing, he’s our savior! He will fix everything! All hail our great leader! Hope! Change! Salvation! Vomit vomit! Except we all know how things turned out for those countries.

  • Chris

    Wow, Jenn, you are like a dynamo.

    It’s really a shame that more people don’t think things through logically like you obviously do.

    Keep up the good fight!

  • http://phimosis-cure.com phimosis man

    This is for sure an extremely thoughtful writing. Thanks for this. I don’t agree with all of it, but I do with the majority of what you stated. Either way it spurred a lot of thinking about this. I will continue thinking about this and get back to you.

  • Tom

    “Any claim that Muslims are more dangerous than Jews is an entirely subjective and arbitrary distinction.”

    And with that Jenn dismisses all Muslim registration ideas as the slippery slope that turns me into a goose-stepping Nazi. Absurd. Of the major monotheistic religions, only Islam uses violence to enforce it’s views (witness homicide bombers, fatwahs, 9-11, Danish cartoons, etc).

    When Christians, Jews, or others are maligned they may march, go on a news show and whine, or even boycott a company/city, but I’m struggling to come up with an example of them burning embassies, burning flags, or demanding the death of the perpetrators for their offenses. Hell, Jerry Bruckheimer didn’t even destroy mecca in that (terrible) movie 2012 for fear of reprisal.

    Sadly, as the comments on this blog show, the West has become too weak and too decadent to even recognize the threat Islam is to our Republic.

  • Jenn

    Have you heard of the Ku Klux Klan or abortion clinic bombings? Have you heard of the crazy Christian leaders in Africa raising child armies? This isn’t a slippery slope argument. I’m not saying that IF we we allow registration of Muslims, we could go down some path and all those other things could happen. I am saying there is absolutely NO LOGICAL DISTINCTION between registering Muslims because a few Muslims did terrible things, and registering Chinese people because some minority of Chinese people did terrible things (actually there are Chinese Muslims in Guantanamo Bay too), and registering Christians because some of them joined the KKK or bombed abortion clinics.

    I’m not making a slippery slope argument, I’m saying the proponents of Muslim registration have no logical leg to stand on, and there is nothing distinguishing Muslims from other groups. You keep talking about terrorism, but this is not a viable distinction. More people have probably been killed in this country by their own police and law than have ever been killed by terrorism. Every religious group, culture, or race has a minority group that is dangerous. What sets Islam apart?

    It would be like if you said, “hey let’s kill Joe.” And I ask, “well why do you want to kill him? Why is that ok?” And you said, “he owns a gun, and he’s terrible and dangerous.” And I asked, “Well why is he particularly bad? What makes him worse than everyone else who owns guns? What stops you from killing everyone else who has a gun?” And you said “He’s dangerous because he has a gun! Stop using your ridiculous slippery slope argument! It doesn’t work!”

    This is totally bogus. There is simply no logical reason to register them. The minority has committed some terrible things, but this can be said of almost every single religion, culture or race.

  • Jenn

    For christssake we have former members of the KKK IN GOVERNMENT. And don’t give me that crap about how they’ve reformed. Byrd was still writing letters of the highest praise to the Grand Wizard when he was around 30 years old. He was writing letters of admiration and support to a gang that DRESSES IN WHITE SHEETS AND GOES AROUND LYNCHING BLACK PEOPLE So under your kind of logic -

    We have people like this in the highest echelons of government! They join police forces and have a history of influencing LAW ENFORCEMENT. This is systemic, deeply embedded racism, violence and hatred in our system. We must register all Christians! Put them all on a national database! I don’t care if most of them are peace loving good people! What a dangerous bunch. The KKK lynches minorities, therefore lets let the entire Christian population suffer for their crimes. Socialism is awesome!

  • Jenn

    Aside from the idea that registering “as many practicing Muslims as we can find” is just prima facie, morally reprehensible, how would this work, practically speaking? Did people who answered YES to this stupid fucking poll stop for just THREE SECONDS to think about the ridiculousness of their opinion?

    How do you find a “practicing Muslim”? Is a Christian who goes to Mosque once a year because his or her family is Muslim a “practicing Muslim”? Is a guest of a Muslim family who frequently prays with them when he visits a “practicing Muslim”? Is someone who reads the Koran every day but never goes to Mosque a “practicing Muslim”? Is a woman who wears a head scarf for cultural reasons, but does not go to Mosque a “practicing Muslim”? How many times does someone have to go to Mosque to be a “practicing Muslim”? Once? Ten times? And how do you determine how many times they go to Mosque? You stalk them? Wiretap them? Maybe round them up into camps? Maybe just round up all the Arab-looking people and microchip them to see how often they enter a Mosque? Clearly, there will have to be numerous egregious and offensive civil liberties violations before you even determine who the “practicing Muslims” are!

    Or here’s a brilliant idea – instead of registering all Christians because SOME of them join the KKK and murder abortion doctors, and registering all Muslims because SOME of them commit terrorism, how about we just punish the Christians and Muslims who commit violence/terrorism?! WOW WHAT A THOUGHT!

  • Guy Fawkes

    I too find aspects of Sharia law repulsive in the extreme, they go not only against U.S. law, but a fundamental principal of libertarianism as well-your rights end where my nose begins. This does not justify registration of all Muslims. What should be done is to make it VERY clear that any enforcement of Sharia law that violates U.S. law will be punished harshly. Some examples:
    * Father kills daughter for being “too western”. Father gets death penalty.
    * Parent(s) subject daughter to vaginal mutilation to prevent orgasm. Parent(s) get life in prison.
    * Young men beat Muslim woman on street for not wearing veil, or not being accompanied by male relative. Ten years, hard labor in prison, no parole.
    Following a policy such as this, rather than a lot of hand wringing and excuses(“It’s their culture”, blah, blah, blah) would be MUCH more effective than registration, as the hardcore followers of Sharia are NOT going to want to live here knowing they are headed for long term imprisonment. Moderate Muslims who reject the more violent aspects of Sharia would not be effected by these laws.

  • Jenn

    I do agree the things you listed need to be punished, although I’m not sure there needs to even be a distinction between genital mutilation based on Shariah law, versus genital mutilation for other reasons (Christians practice genital mutilation in some countries), or killing your daughter because of Shariah law, versus killing your daughter because you hated her guts. I mean regardless of the reason, these are acts that are unjustified. “Culture” should never be an excuse for murder or mutiliaton, but I don’t think someone should be punished MORE for killing their daughter because of their culture, versus killing their daughter for some other equally evil reason.

  • Lawrence

    Jenn: The percentage of people of this opinion is typical of San Diego radio listeners. These people think they’re the salt of the earth, too. Go figure. All of these radio stations in this town can’t get enough militarism — whether domestic or international, et?

  • http://http//ch Samir S. Halabi

    Any Muslim that has attacked Jewish men, women, Juveniles, children for the reason that they are simply Jews, should be dealt with extremely severely, if and when caught should be tried in a court of law if found guilty should be sentenced not less than 5 years. That will teach them a lesson that they will never forget.
    If I saw any muslim whether middle eastern, north african, african or asian etc. attack any Jewish person,
    I would then swing into action together with my russian military trained canine bodyguard protector, I would break every bone in that son of a bitch’s body. who the fuck do they think they are, they are nothing but mother fucking sons of satan who should all be sent back to their stinking hovel where they or their parents originate from.

  • Jenn

    @Samir – isn’t attack of anyone for irrational reasons bad? Isn’t a parent who kills theirs child over spilled milk just as terrible? Or a person who kills their neighbor for fun? What makes Muslims different?

  • http://http//ch Samir S. Halabi

    I am in total agreement with your rationale, however why is it that the majority of muslims only dream of seeing the total annihilation of the ‘State of Israel’ her people if not all killed returned to a dhimmi status living under Islamic rule. Why is it that Muslims (although I have to admit not all of them) who have made their homes in the west ie. Europe aswell as the Americas and Australia, seem to have carried their prejudices with them to whichever western country that they have decided they wish to live in or which has given them political assylumn for whatever reason. Today especially in Malmo, Sweden (although i can name many other cities in other countries also) attacks on Jewish people, property are now just part of their lives, jewish children are attacked by muslims just for being Jewish and especially if they are seen to be wearing (Kippa’s) skull -caps etc. People going to and from Synagogue have also been attacked by Muslims, Synagogogues have been firebombed, aswell as jewish cemetries have also been desecrated by this so called religion of peace.
    Malmo once had a Jewish population of 7,000, today barely 700 remain and reducing all the time, many of Malmo’s Jews have fled the violence and constant abuse and attacks by these wild-people, to the relative safety of Stockholm, although many have preferred to leave Sweden altogether for Israel. The Mayor of Malmo Ilmar Reepalu was quoted as saying that if only the jews wouldn’t support Israel everything would be OK. How dare he moralise on what the jews should do or not to do, the majority of the Malmo jewish community either have family members in israel or have friends there. Does the mayor suggest to the Islamic community of Malmo that they should cease all communications with their relatives in the arab world, north africa, Islamic parts of africa, and the islamic world, that they should not support any arab or islamic countries, I don’t think so.
    Today the muslim community number almost 500,000. the jewish community barely stands at 18,000, yet these thugs can’t leave them alone.

  • Jenn

    @Samir – these actions you name are not acceptable, but is it possible that by “most of them” you really mean the loudest ones? The normal Muslims are going to be quieter and keep out of the limelight for the very reason that they are not extreme or violent. At any rate, even if it were true that “most of them” are a certain way – passing laws or restrictions on a broad category of people because “most of them” are a certain way is morally corrupt. Collectivist thinking is the root of so many evils in society, if not all of them. This is how governments justify genocide and oppression.

  • Lawrence

    Samir: I think that one explanation of that part of the violence that has origins with people who are in the Muslim community can be closely linked with the nearly universal support of Israel against Palestinians and the longstanding pan-European (including the U.S. and Canada) interventionism throughout the Middle East. These interventions create a sense of permanent hostility — quite naturally — among those who experience the victimization and the awareness of it as well as the “tone-deafness” among those in the West to these GovCo activities. Before the massive Western interventionism based on the desire for oil (beginning in the 1920s), the amount of conflict between Jews and Palestinians was minor, and there were Jewish communities throughout the Middle East that functioned in relative peace — even though you can find exceptions. The change that came with the Zionist movement is one source of today’s conflicts. When Europeans essentially exported their racism problem (hatred of Jews) by encouraging the migration of European Jews to Israel (which immigration is subsidized by the state of Israel with economic rewards that are partially underwritten with American aid), they created the conditions leading to today’s rising levels of conflict. Government is forever the source of conflict or the source of increased conflict.

  • http://http//ch Samir S. Halabi

    When the arabs will start to recognize the rights of the jews that fled their homeland in the arab world, in most cases with just the shirts on their backs, leaving all their real-estate behind, all their nbank accounts frozen, much of their private possessions confiscated such as gold jewellery, diamonds,all kinds of precious stones etc. I will then recognize the plight of the arabs of post British mandate of Palestine, please remember that in 1947 the UN suggested to partition palestine into a Jewish and Arab land, the jews accepted the arabs didn’t. Don’t keep on blaming the Jews, don’t keep on repeating the mantra the jews styole the land from the arabs, There never was a Sovereignself governing Palestinian state throughot history. The arabs today are even denying that there ever was a biblical israel, that there was never a western wall of the 2nd temple, it was always part of the Al-Aqsa mosque. to put the record straight Zionism is the National movement of the Jewish people, In other words it’s ok for the Africans, the asians, the arabs, the southamercans to have their national movements, but not for the Jewish people. (By the rivers of babylon there we sat down, yea we wept when we remembered Zion). Zionism is nothing new Zionism is an integral part of the make up of the Jewish people, not the self hating Jews, or the stupid minority such as the so called ‘Naturei-Karter’ a very small religious group who despise the creation of israel, and support her enemies, as if the enemies would spare them when it comes down to it. (If you don’t swim you will drown, by the same token the naturei-karter are waiting for the jewish Meshiach (Messiah to arrive and lead them to Jerusalem) they will have a very long wait)

  • Lawrence

    Samir: most of us at this site do not recognize the validity of any state, period. We consider all of them to be gangs of criminals. Many of us, however, believe in protecting property rights and other individual rights. Nations are mere distractions, and the one-sided backing of Israel at taxpayer expense is wrong therefore. The Brits had no more right to draw lines and dictate settlements than anyone else. Religious superstitions and claims are likewise no excuse. Further, your willingness to dismiss the views of minorities simply because they are not majorities does not comport with individual rights either. So please reserve your nationalistic views to sites where people bow and worship the state, which most of us do not.

  • Lawrence

    Jenn, it’s amazing how T4C has twisted your message of voluntaryism into moral relativism that is violent. He builds a straw man and then proceeds to beat it up. T4C is being dishonest to prevent himself/herself from having to think out the implications of the philosophy of nonagresssion (not initiating force or fraud) and voluntary relationships. He feels on safer ground pretending that everyone only has the choice of one type of servitude over another. Go figure…

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