Preparing Children for Police Confrontations (VIDEO)

Detained for playing hide and seek

A short time into their hide and go seek venture, my husband’s phone rang. It was my stepson (17 years old) frantically saying he was in a paved lot next door to our house and the police were there demanding identification. Obviously, we both bolted out the door and across the street. We arrived to find one teenager in the back of a police car, a second police car, two Whitehall OH police officers, and all the teens standing there not sure what to do.

Of course, I immediately began asking if the young man inside the cruiser was free to go, as you can see in the youtube video – see video above, I was told he was not free to go, but was not being charged. I pretty quickly switched from filming via my phone camera to livestreaming via bambuser – see below – because livestreaming is safer if a problem (arrest, abuse, brutality, destruction of recording device, death, etc.) happens.

Unfortunately, every single one of the kids were trespassing on private property. They didn’t consider that because they had no bad intentions and were simply hiding from each other across the street from my home. Should they have considered it at their ages and in this time of ridiculous police actions? Yeah, probably, but they didn’t. The police could have legitimately charged every single one of them with a misdemeanor trespass charge. However, as the officer on the left expressed pre-video, he was a kid once and played hide and go seek, too. I appreciate his humanity and common sense in that choice. What I don’t appreciate is demanding ID from my stepson, patting down the juvenile you can see in the cruiser, and verbal harassment of that same teen – none of which is on video, sadly. The other kids report that the boy who was briefly detained was called names by the police before we arrived. This is pretty typical for Whitehall cops when dealing with minors whose parents aren’t present.

Let’s talk about what should have happened. Obviously, the kids should not have trespassed. The absence of trespassing would have meant no police interaction. As soon as the police started pulling into the lot, someone should have started recording. Almost every teen has a smart phone, let’s teach them to use them. The boy in the cruiser probably should have just told them his name. However, I understand why he didn’t and I probably wouldn’t have, either. In this instance, these kids were legitimately trespassing, causing the police to have the right to demand identification. Had they been in my yard or on the sidewalk somewhere the police would have had no grounds to demand ID. In Ohio the police only have the right to tell you to identify yourself if this applies (from Ohio Rev Code):

Failure to Disclose Personal Information (2921.29):
(A) No person who is in a public place shall refuse to disclose the person’s name, address, or date of birth, when requested by a law enforcement officer who reasonably suspects either of the following:
(1) The person is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a criminal offense.
(2) The person witnessed any of the following:
(a) An offense of violence that would constitute a felony under the laws of this state;
(b) A felony offense that causes or results in, or creates a substantial risk of, serious physical harm to another person or to property;
(c) Any attempt or conspiracy to commit, or complicity in committing, any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section;    
(d) Any conduct reasonably indicating that any offense identified in division (A)(2)(a) or (b) of this section or any attempt, conspiracy, or complicity described in division (A)(2)(c) of this section has been, is being, or is about to be committed.
(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of failure to disclose one’s personal information, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.
(C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.    
(D) It is not a violation of this section to refuse to answer a question that would reveal a person’s age or date of birth if age is an element of the crime that the person is suspected of committing.

So what should your teenager do if confronted by police? The first logical action is to avoid doing things like trespassing. Kids are kids, though, and every now and then, they are going to do something they shouldn’t when we aren’t looking. First, look at your local laws and learn about what circumstances cause your child to legally be required to comply with police demands. Chances are good most of us do not agree with these arbitrary standards, but a teenager is pretty vulnerable to attack by police. We have a responsibility to be sure our children know the local laws and rules to avoid abuse or even death. Second, make sure your kids know how to safely assert their rights. Don’t be alone, always video, don’t act aggressively toward a cop, don’t needlessly mouth off, etc. These things can reduce a cop’s ability to claim valid grounds, if anything were to go awry. Third, if it does go badly, do not escalate it, focus on staying alive and having proof.

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  • I will state my name and DOB for identification, but nothing else. IF they are really police, they already have my address. If they want to give ME their personal address, I might give them mine. If she’s cute, my phone number, too.

  • Chief_Cabioch

    Check the trespassing laws, in Oklahoma they cant arrest you for trespassing unless you have been warned once…I know I am suing the Tulsa County commissioners and Sheriff and 2 deputies for the same thing, as I was arrested, knocked to the ground and tazed 2 times for trying to report one of the deputies for speeding who almost caused a wreck between he and I and the trespassing charge was dropped for that reason, meaning they no longer had probable cause

  • Common Sense

    Hide and go seek, in a car lot? At night? Sure. Happens all the time. I like how he’s “homeless” and/or possible a runaway – always the type of person to welcome into your home for a party, while mom has no idea what’s going on.

    Don’t worry, next time the police can charge them. Problem solved.

    (A)(1) is sufficient for their arrest.

    Criminal trespass.

    (A)No person, without privilege to do so, shall do any of the following:
    (1)Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;
    (2)Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, the use of which
    is lawfully restricted to certain persons, purposes, modes, or hours, when the
    offender knows the offender is in violation of any such restriction or is
    reckless in that regard;

    (3)Recklessly enter or remain on the land or premises of another, as to which
    notice against unauthorized access or presence is given by actual communication
    to the offender, or in a manner prescribed by law, or by posting in a manner
    reasonably calculated to come to the attention of potential intruders, or by
    fencing or other enclosure manifestly designed to restrict access;

    (4)Being on the land or premises of another, negligently fail or refuse to leave
    upon being notified by signage posted in a conspicuous place or otherwise being
    notified to do so by the owner or occupant, or the agent or servant of either.

    (B)It is no defense to a charge under this section that the land or premises involved was owned, controlled, or in custody of a public agency.

    (C) It is no defense to a charge under this section that the offender was
    authorized to enter or remain on the land or premises involved, when such
    authorization was secured by deception.

    (D) (1)Whoever violates this section is guilty of criminal trespass, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.

  • Joe Carson

    Well this video isn’t as bad as I thought it was going to be and your probably right.The thing is with cops you never know how there going to react.Not only that some of these people don’t know what no trespass means o what private property means.Since you are knowledgeable on the law I was wondering if you could help me on a possible violation of rights case with a friend of mine who all he was doing was walking in the street because the side walk was blocked.I know it might of looked suspicious from a cops point a view some random guy walking down the street at 12 am at night.That still doesn’t give them the right to pat down a guy with out consent.He had two beers before he started walking over to my other friends house and this cop was going pretty fast to almost hit him.HE called my friend who was in the house and went inside after the guy in the house said get in the house now.The cops shined there bright lights on him and scanned his house for a good ten minutes.I do believe that was uncalled for.I see your point on the vid but we don’t know the whole story the question is do you write laws down for the cops who break there protocol?Im not defending the video because there isn’t enough there but a innocent game could be seen as a criminal activity by cops these days.

  • Joe Carson

    Damn dude I hope you win your case.Cops are out of control.This video isn’t really police brutality but there is more to this story I wonder where the live stream vid went she cleary says Im switching to live stream.

  • ymygody

    More pigs looking for absolute and total control of those they feel are lesser humans than themselves. we all know pigs are complete pieces of shit that deserve nothing more than death. liberty grows when they die.

  • JC

    Why don’t you raise your step-son to have respect for himself and he won’t be getting in trouble with the PD. He chose to trespass and he was nailed for it. He did it too himself.

  • ymygody

    time is of the essence JC. you never know how precious the moments are until they are gone.

  • ymygody

    don’t expect a legitimate answer, the badge lickers on this site are going to eat you alive if you do.

  • ymygody

    the best thing to do is be ultra polite. you can then figure out their names and numbers and pretty much anything you want to know about them. Cops idiots and easily controllable, their sub 100 IQ’s ensure this. most cops like to hunt and fish and it is so easy to get them talking about that. they also really like weapons. again they are very easy to control, simple 3rd grade logic will over come their will. once you have all their information, it is up to you what you want to do with that person. just make sure there is a long enough time span in between your incident and their future one.

  • Common Sense

    Most of what you say, in reference to your friend, would not be a “violation of rights.”

    Walking in the street, to the point where a vehicle could hit you, is probably both a traffic violation and a municipal one. The time of night, location, and other factors could all allow RS for a stop and a Terry pat. Your friend entering the house, after the stop and subsequent “limelight treatment” is also, not a violation of anything. It sounds like your friend was not cited or arrested, but detained briefly and released.

    To answer your question is typically yes. Like when commenters say “that’s murder” when in fact is rarely is. It depends on the state’s legal definition of murder. Typically murder requires premeditation. Definitions for statutes matter, must like “recklessness” and “intent” are key elements for statutes that must be proven. Simply because you think there is “recklessness” in an officer’s action, a jury of 12 or a grand jury of 20+ may not. The burden for conviction is high but the burden (justification) for an officer to stop someone and briefly detain them, is very low in comparison.

    The police have no idea they are playing “hide and seek” until contact is made, the matter is resolved and life goes on. You comment that people have no idea how the police will react, I’ll agree and say that the police have no idea who subjects they contact will react. I will hedge a bet, most people now what it is to trespass.

  • Michael Mayo

    It’s only trespassing if a warning was issued or signs were posted. Cops seem to think if you’re on private property without permission that automatically means they are trespassing. That’s not true. They must first be warned. It’s only trespassing AFTER a warning is given.

  • t

    Well stated about this kids.

    Same goes for Joe’s question.
    It all depends on the Totality of The Circumstnaces.
    From what he described…..the stop sounds fine.
    As for the “pat down”….depends on what was going on to include his reaction to the police.
    And they need to really get by the dumb “I don’t consent” thing.

  • t

    Ummmmm….not quite.
    It depends on state laws.

  • t

    Ummmmm….you do know that just because a criminal charge is dismissed or you are found not guilty….that doesn’t mean PC DIDNT exist at the time? You know that right?

  • Common Sense

    Actually no.

    Criminal trespass.(A)No person, without privilege to do so, shall do ANY of the following:
    (1)Knowingly enter or remain on the land or premises of another;

    See the word….any

  • Chief_Cabioch

    t i know this because that was the reason for the arrest, I was no where near the officers, I was over 100yds from them and on the phone reporting them for speeding, he knew I was the vehicle that he almost crashed, he knew I was the one who flashed my lights at him and he confronted me, when they knocked me down on USSA academy property a friends asked why they were arresting, 4 times they said for resisting arrest, they made up the charge of trespassing later, and then realized I want under Oklahoma law legally fitting the description of trespassing, it was never filed, and they are screwed

    I wasnt breaking any laws, I posed them no threats and they have no case

  • t

    Ok guy…if you insist.
    100 yards
    Knocked down
    Have to be warned.

    Wel….you go scalp’em good.

    Video record the proceedings and post us a link.
    It should be fun.

  • t


  • Chief_Cabioch

    if this is an attempt to Mock me it’s lame, you havent seen or read the evidence, you havent heard my 911 call to report the incident, you think this is some kind of game apparently and you sound like a disgruntled Cop who see’s his brothers in trouble and wishes he could help, they are charged with unconstitutional deprivation of liberty, (42 usca*1983) (false imprisonment, Assault and Battery, Excessive use of force (42 usca*1983 & Okla. constitution article 2 * 30)

  • t

    You are absolutely right. I haven’t seen or heard anything. Just your side of it. That’s what court is for big guy.

    I even wished you good luck.

    I just want you to record it an post a link. Especially when you go in there with the USC stuff.

    Like I said earlier….I don’t know OK law. But I’m willing to bet that your understanding of it isn’t quite complete.

    But post it all…..educate.

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  • Chief_Cabioch

    Neither state or federal courts allow you to record or film proceedings , the venue will be changed from district to federal by the county because of the constitutional, issue, i can try and give links to the court decision on the case is all

  • t

    That’ll be good enough.

    But like I said…I’ll wish you good luck.
    Many….M A N Y others on this site have said the same things and tried to sue for similar things.

    They are never heard from again because it doesn’t work quite like they think. Everyone wants to hinge their suit on dismissed charges or not guilty verdicts. Those have nearly no real bearing on the case.

    Don’t be mad if I don’t wait around for ya.
    Good luck though.

  • While I will not agree that their IQs are that low, the good-ole-boy routine of talking about hobbies sounds useful…. These are not the felons you’re looking for..

  • Anything beyond my name and DOB is personal. Whatever a cop asks for, I expect the same in return.

  • ymygody

    the detectives sergeants lieutenants and police chiefs IQs are slightly higher than a hundred. but your regular beat cop is under 100. they have found that hiring people with higher IQs doesn’t work out very well, because those people have a short life span in the policing business. they get bored and also question the legitimacy routinely ticketing citizens just for the sake of revenue creation.