To Serve or Not to Serve.

I’m submitting my story because I feel it’s one a lot of people need to hear. I have been getting some negative feedback on CopBlock’s Facebook page from the cops that visit it, so here we go.

I was a member of the united states marine corps for 14 years, I joined in 1996 and left in 2010. My decision to leave is the basis of this post.

When I joined I was 18 and right out of high school, I was given a choice from my parents, go to school, or get a full time job. Neither of these options seemed all that appealing to me at the time, so I wondered, what do I do? My grandfather was a marine in WW2, so I figure this was good option for me because I wanted adventure and was really into testing myself physically. I served my first 4 years and it was exactly what I expected, I got to test myself, had a lot of adventures all over the world. It was the perfect life for me at the time.

Then 9/11 happend and everything changed. I remember being angry and wanted to get those responsible. I got my chance when I was a part of the first marine expeditionary unit that went to Afghanistan. We thought we ousted the Taliban, we came home and I thought it was over. Then we were sent to the northern border of Kuwait for what was going to be the obvious invasion of Iraq, this is when I first started to question what I was doing. I started thinking, what does Iraq have to do with this, what will our mission be? Nevertheless, the invasion came and went, the mission according to “president bush” had been accomplished or so we thought.

Then something happend through the next four deployments to that country. I realized that we had become occupying invaders of another country. I saw the complete devastation, death, and destruction to these people. I started asking questions like, how would me our my family feel if we had foreign occupiers walking our streets and imposing a curfew on me at the end of an automatic weapon. We made the people of Iraq prisoners, we brought an iron fist and death way worse than ever before. These questions were still not enough to make me come to the conclusion I finally came to. I realized that the government was responsible for this, why was I protecting a government like this? I wasn’t protecting the american people, or the constitution I was sworn to protect.

I had two run ins with police when I was home on leave to the things at home, while I was on leave, that ultimately made my decision for me. First, I was working on my fathers classic camero in his garage and having a few beers while I was doing it. I noticed a cop roll by 3 times in about 10 minutes, finally he stopped in front of the house, walked up the driveway came into the garage and aske for my I’d. Now at this pont I started reading quite a bit, especially the constitution, so I knew right away my rights were being violated. I asked him what was he doing on my property and if he new the 4 th ammendment? He then called for back up told me to sit down, which my response to him was to stop trespassing. He then told me that he noticed the car running and I was drinking. I was working on my car in the garage and was starting it periodically because of the work I was doing. He then told me he could site me for DWI! Long story short, I never showed my ID, and after I started quoting the 4th ammendment and my rights they realized that I was an informed citizen and they left, but before he left he said “your a marine were on the same team you should be more cooperative next time”. This about floored me, I was on his team?

Last encounter came a year later. I was at a party it got loud, a neighbor called the police, a female was walking into the party I was walking out, the cops stopped her asked for her ID and she refused to give it because she obviously knew her rights. What happend next astonished me. The crew cut officer put in a half nelson and slammed her head into the ground, she picked her her head up and it was obvious right away that she had a giant gash in her forehead, she looked at me and screamed in desperation for help and that’s what I did. I grabbed the officer off of her and he then began to attack me. My instincts kicked in and I dislocated his elbow. I was arrested for 1st degree assault and obstruction.

Long story short, I got a good a lawyer and because of my distinguished service, and pending deployment, the obstruction was dropped and the assault charge was lessened. I remember being angry through the process, but then came to the realization that my military service helped protect the government and it’s agents from committing crimes against American citizens like this. I wasn’t only on their team, I was the protector of their violence and murder against the citizens I thought I was supposed to protect! I was protecting them! That was it, this was the last straw, I made the most important moral decision of my life, 6 years before retirement I did not reenlist. I felt I was lied to and would longer going to be an enforcer of an unjust government that cares nothing about their citizens or the constitution. I realized all the government and it’s agents cared about was control. Control over us while stealing by taxation and ticket to continue to fund their violence and oppresion at home and around the world. Since I’ve got out and started telling my story I have received positive and negative feedback, usually from the police officers. I am so thankful for this website and all you do, I will keep it up on my end.

– Andy

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  • t.

    Andy: Not trying to be an apologist for either officer in either incident but in 16 ears of varied experience I never even heard of such things. There is probably way more to the story than you know(or are telling / not that I’m calling you a liar). In the first instance something either drew the officers attention to you, or he received a call that possibly or probably concerned you and you behavior. If it was either of the things I does tribe, you are very wrong. the officerr isn’t violating your rights. Rule of thumb…..if the Avon lady can be there (in your driveway, walking up your sidewalk, knocking on your door. Now you certainly don’t have to interact with the officer, but is certainly seems as though he could lawfully be there.

    In the second scene, I have to say that I don’t believe you. I have never known a police officer that just walked up and sucker punched someone sitting on a park bench, which isn’t much different then what you describe. There has to be WAY more to that story. The altercation with the woman may of happened (probably did). But there ain’t no way he “head locked” and then slammed face first in the ground some woman just over ID . You describe it in such a clam manner with a cop just attacking someone. I say no.

  • Steve

    The laws have actually changed and until they are changed back you have no right to privacy. All a cop has to do is suspect you are a terrorist (a very broad term) and you have no rights. No Trespassing signs and No Soliciting signs should keep out the Avon lady, and the law biding cops,(if there are any) it is hard to take a stand on this and expect any cop would actually do their job to help you. I have personally seen multiple situations where cops walk up to people and sucker punch them. or Attack peaceful demonstrators with pepper spray unprovoked (did you see that video too?) Five of the ten most viral videos this year were police brutality based, so don’t think you have a leg to stand on with your argument. The patriot act needs to be ousted, and the rights of the people need to be restored.

  • J.

    @ t.

    Confidence in your own inexperience isn’t a reason for doubting Andy’s; whether his stories are completely true or not, it seems that you’ve mistaken a badge for divinity.

    I had a family member who was walking home from a convenient store in Cleveland: he went there to buy a pickle. On his coming out of the store, the officer pulled in and asked for his ID. The store wasn’t in any danger nor had the owner called in and reported any danger. My relative recited his rights, denying to show the officer ID. The officer didn’t like that, called for back up (for no other reason than the officer’s obvious fear of his own ignorance). My relative just stayed put to see it out. When backup got there, the original officer approached him, asked him for his ID again: he was refused again. The officer then took my relative and slammed him head first into the squad car, shouting that he was resisting arrest. The backup officer just stood there and watched the assault happen.

    The relative wound up in jail with a deep gash in his face, black and blue eyes, and neural damage in his wrists because the cuffs were too tight. My relative had NO warrants and there were NO reports of crime in the immediate area that night. This wasn’t the first time this happened; a similar incident happened to my older brother a few months earlier for sleeping on public property.

    These are also equivalent to a police officer walking up and sucker punching someone sitting on a bench.

  • Andy

    T, I think you need to go back and re-read my post, first that is what happend, if you recall the officers were called because the party had gotten loud so it was a disturbance call. I was actually on my way out of the party when the girl was assaulted. What drew the officers attention to me was I yanked him off her. I have read your feed back on here before and I know you have been a police officer for many years. You are also respectful and fair to the people on here, it’s appreciated. You said you know no cop that would slam someone over ID. I know plenty my friend. Being former military I have a lot of comrades that have gone into law enforcement abroad and even in the city I live in and trust me it happens a lot. In fact I bounce at a bar for extra money on the weekend evenings and I have seen people get there head slammed into the ground by officers for much less. One occasion, a kid ran and the officer slipped on some ice and was angry, so he slammed the kids head so violently into the ice he got 34 staples in his head, and that’s exactly what happend, I watched the whole thing. I knew by telling my story I would get the “I don’t believe you stuff”, but t it’s all true. I respect your experience but trust me not all departments are as good as yours must be. Stay safe -Andy

  • Thank you, Andy!

  • t.

    Andy: Thanks. But can I ask, ifmyoumbounce at a bar, do you not see what those people that you see slammed are acting like? Bars, drunks. Kinda go together. So does barrs, drunks, fights, assaults, resisting arrest. All I can say is there is always more to the story somewhere. Just watch some of the videos here and elsewhere. If they are unedited, they usually start after a conflict / confrontation has started. When seen in that light, and not in the totality of the circumstances, lotsmofmthings look bad. I’ve admitted before that I know there are some poorly educated departments and officers whom work under thenconditons that they have. Some manage to excell. Some don’t. Sign up and try to make the difference.

  • fromjanesville2waukesha

    t, “Sign up and try to make the difference.” I believe you and your fellow, “Drug Warriors” will be deemed by history as terrorists. I know I know…Just following orders etc.

  • t.

    Janesville: Huh? Why does it always come back to dope love with you people. And where did I mention that anyway?

    All I said is that there is usually more to the story. When the police show up somewhere YOU have no idea what they have been told (or by whom). YOU don’t have any idea what they may know prior to their arrival.

    Andy and I were having an adult discussion about the title of his post “to serve or not to serve”. You decide to comment on your dope love. My suggestion that he sign up and try to make a difference is real. Try to change it from within. You’d rather whine like a bitch. But if you think we do it so wrong, SIGN UP AND SHOW US HOW TO DO IT BIG GUY !! You won’t because you’re either scared or worried that you are the one that has it wrong.

    Again I say to Andy. Sign up and try to change it from within. Be that role model to other officers. Set the example.

  • Jet

    It doesn’t matter what the police were told before they rolled up to a party. If they don’t see violence, they shouldn’t start violence. Period.
    And let’s say this female was apparently underage, and they wanted to ‘card’ her to see if illegal drinking was going on. If she doesn’t show them ID, that doesn’t enable them to assault her person. In fact, even if they were told someone of her exact description had assaulted someone at that party, they still would not be justified in just ‘tackling’ her at the door while she left.

  • Only 4 years for you to come to the conclusion you yourself were ‘just following orders’ when you took part (4 times apparently) in an ‘illegal’ invasion?

    Whatever justisfication you need to tell yourself is fine. Without seeing a police report or a witness statement, what you say is suspect and obviously one sided. Underage drinking is a crime last I checked, so, without getting into your statements, the police do have authority to ‘detail’ and ‘investigate’ underage drinking.

    Your massive leap from being one who ‘just followed ordered but now see the light’ to being an ‘activist’ is comical. You don’t like what the Gov’t does, vote, you could have refused to serve could you have not? A few deployments and a nice paycheck makes it hard to make that moral decision doesn’t it? Either way, most on this page is a fraction, a tiny minority, of their community. If you had a voting majority, you could change things, via a democractic process. Maybe someday it will change, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Bash the cops all you want, I really don’t think they give too much of a shit about you, but I could be wrong. Don’t want to pay taxes, don’t own property, no payroll taxes, don’t own a business, no federal or state imcome taxes, work under the table, no speeding tickets ‘taxes’, don’t speed…..

  • Andy

    Wow common sense you seem like a very angry individual. Apparently huh, I will say the same thing to you i said above to t, who by the way may not agree with me, but did so respectfully, but i guess he isn’t as angry as you. I knew by writing this I would get the “I don’t believe you people” because it scares some people that a vet would feel this way. I assure you it’s all true. Also, I don’t know what you read but I never said anything about being an activist or not paying taxes? In fact I just did them on Saturday. I never said anything about Speeding tickets? I had one in 1997 and I paid it. Also you say I made a massive leap? I recall saying it took some time even years and me educating myself before I made the decision to leave, so not sure where you got that from. The issue with the officer also had nothing to do with underage drinking. I didn’t even say anything about that. I’ll refresh for you because I think you read through this to fast. The police were there on a disturbance call because a party was loud. He said nothing about her age, or drinking when he id’d her. Again, not sure where you got that from. I also own my own home and property, but I don’t recall mentioning that either so I don’t know why you did? I hope this helps clear things up for you.

  • Angry? Far from it.

    “stealing by taxation and ticket” You were not making a reference to traffic tickets? I guess I was incorret then.

    …so did the cop I’D her or not, your comment indicated that the cops ‘attacked’ her prior to doing so.

    …Reference to paying taxes, etc, are examples of what you can do to effect change, not the “my God, the evil gov’t is out to murder you..” nonsense, taking every situation to the extreme. Its the typical self serving statements that are common here. If you want change, then vote (unless Gov’t operatatives try to kill you of course). Like I said, whatever you need to rationalize your stance is fine. I just pointed out, that after years of “just following orders” your dawning moment comes.

  • Jet

    Wow, common sense, so one vote is now all that is needed to change a government you don’t agree with. That’s good to know in a system that pretty much eliminates a large percentage of public votes.
    It seems that the first thing police do when they aren’t doing no-knock warrants is try to get ID from people. Not just in underage drinking situations, all situations.

  • Civil Rights

    You who condone the actions of police in violating our rights are no better than the police themselves.(mere bully’s with badges) Go ahead and ignore the obvious,the police want nothing but subservient subjects. After your rights are gone and you are wondering where they went go ahead and try to get them back. Kind of like trying to unscramble an egg. It just can’t be done. So stand up now and protect what we have left and quit being a pussy!

  • Wolf

    Isn’t it amazing how a cop (T) and a liberal mouthpiece (commonsense) always make anybody assaulted by police a bad guy, and the cops were just minding their own business when this bad person tripped over the cops foot and fell down.

    T, POSSGT. and CommonSense have got to be lurkers on here as all 3 show the mental deficiency known to affect liberal brains. The more you prove them wrong, the more they crawl to their hero Obama who gives them the right to intimidate, rape, and murder innocent citizens with absolutely NO consequences as they are gov’t employees who hide behind the blue curtain.

    These 3 are prime examples of the whole system and the biggest reason gun and ammunition sales have gone through the roof.

  • G. Asher

    Strong work Andy. I wish you had PM or emailed me this so I could have read it before.

    I see the cop apologists, cop justification confabulators, and plain old holster sniffers leapt on the chance to comment against you, but those of us who have been the victims of the badged street gang know better.

    Thanks to youtube and other sites, blind acceptance of cops’ word on the stand is becoming a thing of the past. Anybody who really knows what is going on knows they have no credibility. If I had to choose between the word of a crack head and the word of a cop, I better see some video.

  • Steve

    It seems that perhaps if we post some videos here
    Then maybe they will believe us.

  • Andy,YEAH! BABY! common sense,for my butt! ..But my comment is respose for above video…..Many valid points,but there are talented and great people who work in law enforcement(I have not found any in my county nassau N.Y.,but there are about 3,000 I remain hopefull) FACT,.. even the good apples are POWERLESS way it IS now.Things are far worse now than Serpico’s era. A study into officers suicides might reveal it’s the good ones,for that very reason .One bad apple can and does ruin the whole bunch .Solution is to moniter the bottom of the food chain of corruption,(local police,and 911 responders)By simply following up on work done and responses ,after they are done,rate/flag/reward for things like fraud/accuraccy/any good/talent,or skill.Then they are not all the same any longer they have a rap sheet sort of,good give lectures,and stuff the bad can comment on line as common sense

  • G. Asher

    Steve, honestly, who cares what cooked cops and lick spittles like CS think or believe? They will tell you Ian Birk did a fine job. You might as well argue diplomacy with a Brown Shirt. In fact, if you talk to these people in a civil manner, you are doing pretty much exactly that.

  • Andy

    Thanks Dr. Asher. I agree with you 100 percent.

  • Rob

    As an aspiring Law Enforcement employee, stuff like this makes me genuinely sad. Cops are there to get crime off the streets. But in order to do that, the people must be educated to the point that they know the laws in their respective states (and looking up the laws in states that they may visit/drive through/etc. to see how the laws differ, which will prevent any respectable citizen from committing any crime whilst their there.). Bottom line: People need to follow the Law and not harp on Law Enforcement for doing their jobs. Sure some officers may make mistakes, for were are only Human. I’m not condoning the ones that truly just…I don’t even know how to describe it… Here are some examples: The ones in Andy’s case, the ones who pepper sprayed those protesters during the Occupy Movement, the ones during the Civil Rights Movement, not to mention The Rodney King Incident. I feel all Officers of the Law need to not let personal feelings get involved with the task at hand, and that includes their jobs. I’m going into Law Enforcement to change it. Even if I change just one person, to me that is enough. Why? Because I believe its a noble undertaking that is long overdue. What happened to Standards? What happened to Morals? What happened to Procedure? What happened to US!?

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