What You Should Be Able to Say to a Cop… But Don’t Dare To

The following Eric Peters article was sent to us by a Cop Block fan via our submit tab

One word – no.

It used to be a word that carried a lot of weight. Not just morally but also – and critically – legally. You could say no to cop and, provided he didn’t have a warrant issued by a judge – or at the least, some specific probable cause that would stand up before a judge – he had no choice, legally speaking, but to back off. If he did not – if he say forced his way into your house or forced you out of your car or forced you onto the ground – the odds were pretty good that down the road, any charges leveled against you would be dropped ( “fruit of the poisoned tree” doctrine) and – even more significantly – the cop himself would likely find himself looking for a new line of work. Or at least chastened.

But that was the past, alas.

One of the greatest freedoms we have lost since 911 is that we have been deprived of the power of no. Instead, we are told we must immediately Submit and Obey – and failure to do so immediately now constitutes “probable cause” in our Brave New World. If one says no to a cop demanding ID, one can expect to be put in cuffs and thrown face down over the hood of a cruiser. If one declines to open the door to one’s home for a cop, it is entirely likely that the cop will force his way in and if you do so much as put your hands up to ward off the blows, you will very likely find yourself charged with “resisting” and possibly “assault upon a police officer.”

Much worse, the law will back him up, not you.

Even if the door kick-down at 2 in the morning and subsequent ransacking of your home are later declared an “administrative mistake” (they meant to bash in the door of the house across the street, not yours) but you, in your fear and absolute innocence took steps to defend yourself/your family and in the process shot a “law enforcer,” guess who’ll be up on murder or attempted murder charges?

This has actually happened already. For instance, there’s the case of Ryan Frederick   of Chesapeake, Va.. He was charged with first degree murder for shooting a cop who broke into his home on a trumped-up drug warrant. Frederick, 28 at the time, had no criminal record and the warrant was the result of a supposed police informant who claimed that Frederick was growing pot plants. In fact, Frederick – an avid gardener – was growing a Japanese Maple. On the basis of this, a no-knock warrant was executed – just afew days after Frederick’s home had been invaded by burglars. When Frederick’s dogs began barking and he heard someone breaking through his front door, he grabbed his gun and – quite reasonably- fired at the intruder. The intruder happened to be a cop and now Frederick awaits life in prison – or a needle in the arm. (See here for more.)

He was not able to say no.

More recently (Feb. 7) a diabetic man, Adam Greene, was beaten to a bloody pulp by several costumed Nevada Highway Patrol thugs – including multiple kicks to the head while he was supine on the ground. The provocation for this near-fatal assault? Low-speed erratic driving (caused by diabetic shock). See here for the brutal video, recorded by the dash cam of the costumed thugs’ vehicle.

He never had the chance to say no, either.

Instead, Greene was roughly dragged out of his car – at gunpoint – thrown to the pavement and given the Clockwork Orange treatment. He never in any way resisted, unless you count attempting to ward off the blows as “resisting”- which of course is precisely how the costumed cretins look at it. “Get on the ground! Stop resisting, (expletive), stop resisting (expletive)!” they screech at the prone and clearly not-resisting figure, landing blows and kicks all the while.

Eventually, and thanks only to the publicity generated by the video evidence, Greene received a small cash settlement ($158,000 for a beat-down that puts you in the hospital with life-threatening injuries is a small settlement). According to the Las Vegas Sun, one of the thugs-in-costume was “disciplined.” Not fired. Let alone charged with what he – what they – clearly did: Nearly beat to death a helpless – and innocent – man.

I was thinking about all this just the other day when I was stopped by a cop for specious reasons. We live near the Blue Ridge Parkway and use it often to travel “down the mountain” and back. Last Sunday, we were headed back home after a morning outing. It was a warm day – sunny and in the mid-high 50s. Well, we get to the entrance and a cop is there, closing the gates – because of a possible snowstorm the next day. I stop to ask why they are closing the gates now given there’s not a flake (or even a cloud) in the sky and it’s at least 20 degrees too warm to worry about snow. This was a mistake because he spied me not “buckled up” for safety. He – a 26-year-old kid – peremptorily barks at me to put on your seatbelt. I do not immediately Submit and Obey like a good serf – and this immediately incites the fury of the cop. I have questioned his Authoritay. So I get the license and registration drill. I also have to give him my gun (I have a CHP). I also have to sit by the side of the road for 10 minutes while this dude runs his Power Trip. My wife advises me to be quiet and polite, to shut up and behave. I do not have the option of saying no, either.

None of us do anymore.

I got away without a ticket – or a Tazering – but probably only by dint of the fact that I have some media “cred” and the cop may have figured I wasn’t worth a beat down.

I wonder what might have happened to someone without any “cred” – on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere, just him and the costumed cretin…. .



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  • t.

    So let’s get this straight….your encounter story is, the officer is trying to prepare for a pending snowstorm by closing the park, probably just one of many, he has to close up, and you DECIDE to be a smart ass for no reason? Then after that he tels you to put on your searbelt, which youshould have already been wearing, and you DECIDE to be a smart ass. And after that, you’re still upset, because you DIDN’t get a ticket?

    Easier answer to your question. Don’t be a smart ass or more likely, a dumb ass.

    Your above rant sadly has some truth. There are officer that do things wrong. But you guys just love to point out all the bad stories. But out a of the millions of police interactions every year in the U.S., there are still only a pitiful few.

    My question is what exactly, and where exactly are you hanging out, and what are you doing to get THAT much attention. Seems .Ike some people on this site seem to always run into the hyper-viligent officers that just stop everyone, and search everything. Yet others accuse officers of being lazy and sloth. Interesting.

  • Common Sense

    Sorry t. It’s a copblockers right to be a dumbass…

  • Common Sense

    I had run some numbers and there is a 0.03% chance I being killed on a search warrant, the chance of 0.002% of an arrest leading to a civil suit.

    You have a greater chance of being killed by a house fire then by the police.

    But they will just decry one incident out of millions of police contacts…

  • Brent Ryan Thornton

    They jumped me for refusing to put down my cell phone. I was calling my wife to get my kid outta there. I think they thought I was calling for backup.Ive learned that no amount of politeness or respect will get me treated any better by police. So I have two phrases I use on em: FUCK YOU and SUCK MY DICK. And thats it. Thats all they get outta me. Hell in Kern co ca, yes sir no sir is met with the same reaction as FUCK YOU PIG! So i try to get mine in first. I wasn’t like this until after being searched and sitting on a curb with my 3 year old daughter on my lap, I was beaten by 7 cops and tazed repeatedly. All while I was being strangled. My daughter left unattended by pigs had to be whisked off to safety by a stranger.


    Common sense.. Number is actually smaller. More people are stuck by lighting than killed by police(including those who rightfully should’ve been killed). You far more likely to be killed by lightning than wrongfully killed by police.

    Propaganda. Which this site is famous for always contains 1 thing, and lacks another. 1, will always bring a story, 2, lacks any facts to back it up, but stats that it’s a common thing.

    If you get your ass beat by the police, your going to have marks. ANY news channel is more than willing to put them on tv!! Heck we had a guy was arrested for beating the crap out of his gf, breaking her nose and arm, then sending his pit bull after her. She had been bitten 4 times. We go to arrest him, he fights, he calls his dog(you can clearly hear it on our camera), dog comes running, we shoot the dog. He ended up with a black eye, rug burns, and 2 taser prong marks.

    He gets out of jail, calls the news cause the big bad police shot his dog. News runs a 4 MINUTE bit on this “poor” kid and dog. Didn’t get our side of the story cause the chief was gone on a vacation. I was here and spoke with the news along with chief when they came for the report, photo’s, and real story. Later that night, they ran a 30 second bit on how the police were right, and this guy was a tool. so we’ve got 4 minutes on how bad the police are, and 30 seconds on how good the police are and how justified we were. Bad guy didn’t include the part where he sent his dog after his gf, and then us….. But then again, I’m just talking about 1 story. we were assaulted from his using his dog. add that to the 54,000 cops who are assaulted each year(crap a stat….my bad)

  • Brent Ryan Thornton

    Oh, and t, FUCK YOU PIG!.

  • Brent Ryan Thornton


  • Brent Ryan Thornton

    Commie Sense, FUCK YOU PIG. I can do this all day. Sometimes I do.

  • Common Sense

    Guess you should have kept your welfare mouth shut huh Brent?

  • Brent Ryan Thornton

    Lol. You fucking cops just don’t get it. Fuck you. Fuck your whole damn crew. NOBODY likes you. NOBODY trusts you. YOU are morons. SO STUPID THE SUPREME COURT HAS TO PROTECT HIRING PRACTICES THAT DISCRIMINATE AGAINST INTELLIGENCE. DID YOU KNOW YOU GOT YOUR JOB BY BEING THE BIGGEST FUCKING LOSER ON THAT PARTICULAR DAY YOU TOOK YOUR TESTS? Its true. They passed on 5 other guys, all smarter than you. YOU my pink hairless slop eating friend, were the dumbest of the day. Too stupid to question authority, so mediocre in your life the only way you were ever gonna get the respect you craved was by being a motherfuking pig. Suck it slow ya fuking losers.

  • Brent Ryan Thornton

    Hell no! I beat the fuck outta those pussies . Lol, true story.

  • Brent Ryan Thornton

    And notice this you gutless fucking curr cops, I use my Christian name. Unlike you fuking cowards, I have no reason or desire to hide who I am. Did your mom name you common? You like that rapper or something, ya fucking lop. Use your fuking name if you’re gonna talk shit. Otherwise you’re just proving what a buncha fuking bitches you are. Seriously, everyone already thinks you’re pussies . Why come on here and prove that you’re pussies? Lol, buncha Paul babeu s on our hands!

  • Common Sense

    Of course you did Brent – whatever you say…Make sure you catch the mailman, welfare check is coming soon. I’m sure you super bad ass on your block.. Ha ha ha what a dipshi

  • Common Sense

    Ha your too much, you are the type that talks shit until the cops come an then you vagina makes its appearance…mouth breather

  • Angry

    Cops also have a very small chance of being killed on the job. If we apply the above logic that, “If it has a small chance of happening it’s always insignificant,” then we can conclude that cop killing is no big deal – always.


    I don’t think the police understand that if they push then some are going to push back. This isn’t even about who’s right or who’s wrong; it’s about human nature. If I insult a cop, chances are he’s going to get angry and “push me.” If cops bust up some weed dealers, chances are some of them will get angry and “push” the police. All confrontations have a chance of escalating into violence, no matter who’s right or wrong.

    Since that’s the case, don’t you think assaults on officers would go down if there was no more drug war, no more no knock entries during the night, no more silly motor stops and ridiculous tickets? Officers would only have to confront a select few people (those who commit violent crimes against another for example) to do their jobs. Assaults would go way down since few would even have a reason to want to fight a cop, and the police would gain much more respect and approval from the people. Wouldn’t that be a more desirable future for you?

  • Angry


    Actually the only thing about Law Enforcement that scares me is the judicial system, ya know that big machine that locks people away for years and destroys futures? The individual cop is typically not that frightening to me, especially the tubby ones. Some of those guys look like you could escape them by quickly walking away.

  • Jesse James

    The writing may be mostly right. Will read all soon. Stopped reading at Ryan Frederick’s case. Cops asked to be shot at, but…….. Ryan WAS growing real weed in his garage. Evidence not planted. He also admitted that. Informat(s) broke into his garage and got evidence. No-knock raid not needed. He could’ve easily been arrested on same warrant in broad daylight going to work, at work, or coming home from work. Steroidal cop got just desserts. I’m not anti-weed, but the law is, and Ryan was actually growing it, NOT Japanese Maple!

  • Carlos

    A cop in Seattle gunned down a homeless guy in cold blood. The victim was well known by the cops as a famous woodcarver of totem poles and figurines that he sold to local tourist shops. Cop said the guy had a lethal weapon but he was carving on wood with a LEGAL knife with a 3 inch blade, minding his own business and members of the public walking by him said they never felt threatened. All of the bystanders agreed that the cop shouldn’t have shot the guy. It was maybe 7-8 months before the cop lost his job. yeah the prosecutor refused to press charges… like 80% of the city wanted the cop fried. They have this loop hole in the law that makes it easy for a cop to murder someone and get away with it.

    The police should be prosecuted the same way our soldiers are now prosecuted. They are PAID with our TAXES to serve the public, to uphold the law not be above the law or make up the law as they see fit.

    I love the people like COMMON [likely to be a COP, a stubborn and stupid one, of course] that run to the cops’ defense. They say the majority of them are not bad, therefore we need to have an underlying trust that the majority of them are good.

    Until your “good cops” start turning the so CALLED “1% of bad cops” then they are all corrupt. The so CALLED “good ones” will cover and lie and do horrible things for the bad ones. In my book that makes you corrupt and just as guilty as the one doing the crimes. And until cops get equal or more punishment than the Average JOE, the whole system is corrupt. They can kill someone and get a slap on the wrist.


  • Old man

    @ t.
    Quote: >>”But you guys just love to point out all the bad stories. But out a of the millions of police interactions every year in the U.S., there are still only a pitiful few.”<>”Propaganda. Which this site is famous for always contains 1 thing, and lacks another. 1, will always bring a story, 2, lacks any facts to back it up, but stats that it’s a common thing.”<<

    Don't you think you exaggerate a little? There are many credible court decisions that convict a police a officer for misconduct that was reported here on this site with lots of facts.

    If for you, this site was so lackful of facts and just a propaganda site, then you and your colleagues sure love to spend a lot of time hanging and posting in almost every thread here. ;)

    Glad you guys decided to be fellow CopBlockers. :)

  • Old man

    My post did not fully load properly (2nd try)

    @ t.
    Quote “But you guys just love to point out all the bad stories. But out a of the millions of police interactions every year in the U.S., there are still only a pitiful few.”

    I respectfully disagree with you. The “pitiful few interactions” are many everyday and is becoming a major problem. http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/

    To common sense
    Your first post in this thread..very immature.
    Do you always resort to name calling when you disagree with someone?

    Quote “Propaganda. Which this site is famous for always contains 1 thing, and lacks another. 1, will always bring a story, 2, lacks any facts to back it up, but stats that it’s a common thing.”

    Don’t you think you exaggerate a little? There are many credible court decisions that convict a police a officer for misconduct that was reported here on this site with lots of facts.

    If for you, this site was so lackful of facts and just a propaganda site, then you and your colleagues sure love to spend a lot of time hanging and posting in almost every thread here. ;)

    Glad you guys decided to be fellow CopBlockers. :)

  • bullshit

    Carlos is right. You guys comparing getting shot by a cop with getting struck by lightening are missing the point. It isnt about the number of cops that shoot an innocent person without provocation (and just to ne clear, ONCE is way too much), its about all the other piece of shit cops that try to make it go away. It is about the how they get fucking paid vacation instead of being put in front of a firing squad.

    “A few bad apples” isn’t the big problem (you’d have us believe its only a few, which is bullshit). The real problem is all the support they get.

    And, Common Sense, it is funny you should talk about welfare. Where do you think your paycheck comes from?

    And, t., last I checked, we are under no obligation, morally, ethically or otherwise to be respectful to cops any more than we are with anyone else. Cops, however, are morally and ethically obligated to respect the people they should be serving. What does that mean? If cops don’t like it when people are smart-asses, maybe they shouldn’t have gotten all C’s in high school. But thats not really fair. Most of them are too stupid to have done better.

    Either way, I will say this. People should shoot cops more.

  • bullshit

    Also, I want to point out..

    The fact that you people are even here opposing this proves what kind of people you are. Of course you don’t want people to have the right to say no.

    If you’re a cop, god forbid you should have to actually respect people’s rights in the performance of your duties. No, all you care about is getting power, and taking it away from others.

    If you aren’t a cop, what the fuck has got you scared so fucking shitless that you feel like the only thing standing between you and certain death is a big strong man in blue pajamas? Are you seriouslyso convinced that a

  • bullshit

    (Accidentally hit submit.. on a touch screen)

    That everyone around you is just waiting to murder you, and that the only thing that will stop them is to strip them of their human rights?

    There is zero reason that a good person would oppose the message in this article.

  • Seriously PSOSGT?

    You said that “More people are stuck by lighting than killed by police(including those who rightfully should’ve been killed). You far more likely to be killed by lightning than wrongfully killed by police.”

    I seriously doubt that one at all..

    According to the nation Weather Service the US averages 55 lightening fatalities each year..


    Hell in one year alone, (2006 IIRC) Harris County TX cops shot 65 UNARMED folks, killing 17 of them.

    According to the LA Times, the LA Country SD racked up an impressive 50% rate for shooting unarmed folks for simply reaching for their wallets…


    Just because another groups of cops clears a cop for shooting an unarmed person, don’t make it a good shoot. Fortunately we now have more and more people seeking the justice they were denied in criminal court, in civil court. When cops investigating another cop, not surprisingly clears the first cop of murder.

    People are getting wise to that now thankfully…



    Your logic is flawed and your argument is simple wrong… but I’m sure you’re use to that by now.

    Funny cops investigating other cops…

    Do you know who are the only two civilian groups that are allowed to investigate themselves in this country.

    This countries police and Congress…

    Yeah thats good company…

  • Common Sense

    I like to talk in a language mmost viewers here can understand.

    Please find numbers to refute mine. Otherwise this is just a blogger for cop haters, that’s fine, but unnless you can post some stats of your own, expect some to disagree with your “the cops hassled me for no reason” posting..

  • t.

    Old man: OK. Show where what I said was wrong. I’ll have to use me as example. A little quick math and over 16 years I’ve easily had 90,000 plus police related interactions with people. Maybe 60 serious “fights”‘ and a maybe 150 “use of force” reports ( that includes anything beyond normal handcuffing). Out of that, maybe 20 complaints about use of force (all of which were unfounded, most of which were on video, the rest had citizen testimony about how proper the actions were). There have also been a. Couple of successful suits against those false complaints (thank you very much)

    If you multiple that across the country, millions of interactions with very little excessive force. Pitiful few successful lawsuits. Now, there are settlements, which personally I dislike because settling cases where there is little or no police misconduct only invites more suits.

    I am not exceptional. I am the closer to the rule. People on here have gotten some very wrong misconceptions a out police work. The standards that I am held to are incredible high. Which is OK. I hold myself to an even higher one.

  • Rita

    To all you police apologists: In Arizona, the number 1 cause of death in children under 5 is drowning. So, since your child is much more likely to drown than be run over by a car, following your twisted logic, it would be quite acceptable to you if I run over your kid. After all, it’s just a few bad apples who kill other people’s children, right? In fact, following your twisted logic a little further, it would be quite all right if I just stood by and watched as someone else ran over your kid, because it’s just one of those bad ol’ apples, making the rest of us look bad.

    I’m with Carlos on this — until the “good” cops start enforcing the law and policing their own ranks, they are all accessories before and after the fact to the crimes of the “bad” ones.

  • Andy

    T, I understand why you jump on these stories right away because it sound like you are one of the good ones. As to closing the park preemptively, I can understand that, if they didn’t there would be certain people that would become trapped in the park, and then it would be the job of emergency workers like police to have to go in and find them. All this at a huge expense to the taxpayer because of rescue efforts. I have a couple questions t, psosgt, what about the cases of the diabetec man who was almost beaten to death by the police, what should the discipline actions be in your opinion towards the officers who assaulted this man? When It comes to the ever growing mistakes of swat teams executing no knock warrants, and this man who seems to be truthful to me because he didn’t have a criminal record, and was a gardener growing Japanese maples, should he be getting life because the police took the word of a CI who being in law enforcement yourself know they can be unreliable, and often lie. The death of the officer is terrible, but I think it’s the cops fault for executing the bogus warrant. One more, what do you think of the castle doctrine?

  • Common Sense

    No, it’s a matter of perception.

    You post news articles about bad cops. Okay, but when you actually run some numbers, the chance of you being dragged from your bed and executed by the police during a search warrant raid is around 0.02%.

    The chance of a police arrest leading to a federal lawsuit even being filed, stands around 0.0021%. And that’s just arrests vs lawsuits, not taking into account the hundreds of millions of other police interactions from traffic stops to 911 calls.

    Police state? police offcers vs US population? 0.0021%
    Chance of a police officer facing a civil lawsuit per year? 0.04%
    Police vs population in Kneen NH? 0.0015%
    Police vs population in NYC? 0.004%
    Average number of citizens (innocent or not) killed annually by police? 350 ( if you match that with LASD numbers, that means there are typically 1200 police ‘shootings/shootouts’ per year, 1/2 the time no one is hit, of those that are hit, 1/3 are killed)

    Police misconduct cases from 2010 was reported on one website at 6000+ cases and 1500+ cases of excessive force. That’s 0.00010% of all arrests in 2010 lead to a complaint of excessive force. Again, just arrests, not the billion or so other types of police contact with a citizen…

    Listening you some of you, you’d think the police were setting up roadside execution squads…

  • Bill Lowry

    Let me emphatically state I am not inviting, invoking, calling for, suggesting or intending any harm in this response. Just making a few observations.
    1. There are roughly 900,000 or so called law enforcement officers in the various corporations all armed with guns and often color of law beliefs.
    2. The are about 200,000,000 armed We the people in the united States of America. Thats more than a 200 to 1 ratio armed people vs armed ignorant thugs.
    3. Americans contrary their self professed images have the capacities for the greatest violence of any citizenary on Earth. Ask the Germans and Japanese during WWII(yes I know thats wartime.Watch the nes today to see acts of violence we routinely commit against persons known and unknown.
    4. Those 900,000 law enforcement officers have taken oaths in most jurisdictions however the majority neither understand their oath(they are just doing their job as they attest to)and many State Constitutions require those officers subscribe their oaths (write/sign) and they often fail to. Therefore according to their rules which they break frequently they are impersonating an officer, which is usually a felony if anyone else attempted this.
    5. The US Supreme Court has in the past recognized the Right to Reveloution by all peoples.

    These points pose this simple thought.

    When the oppressions, beatings of innocent people eventually reach their boiling point(history backs this up I think), who will protect the 900,000 police and their families when 200 million citizens beat them down or worse?

    Written by an American Indian. Once more than 60 million Native American Indians lived on our land and they were decimated by Europeans( I also have Irish and Scottish blood lest you think I am motivated to respond) in various ways.

    And to the police who cite their own examples of limited or non validated force their exists a legal premise that Justice Blackstone is acknowleged as to creating and every state in the land has accepted it. It is better for ten guilty men to go free than 1 innocent to be wrongly punished. So a few mistakes (thousands exist) are acceptable. Thats not right and you’ll never convince me of that.

    Crime demands a harm to a living natural human being, their property or fraud. No statute or act (which are not really laws)gives police the right(actually in your person, a legal fiction, you have no rights, the people police harm unjustly have all the rights)
    Please understand that the people are not arguing with you rather pointing out your chosen professions huge shortcomings.

  • Andy

    @common sense
    I respect you’re diligence in always getting numbers to back up what you are saying. One of your numbers jumped out at me though. 0.00010 percent of arrests lead to a complaint. The numbers you put up equaled 7500. These numbers show me there are way to many bogus arrests if 7500 is only 0.0010 of arrests in the country! I then went to my counties booking report for the last two days, and it backed up what I thought. Numerous bookings for driving after suspension, driving with no insurance, possession of marijuana, drug paraphanalia. I understand all these infractions are illegal, but could they not be best handled by issueing a ticket, or a summons and if they don’t show for their court date then issue a warrant for arrest. I think there are two many cops who are quick to pull the trigger, and take someone to jail. Is there a quota for arrests, any arrest, no matter how small the infraction?

  • Common Sense

    I believe it was based on the 14 million arrests vs the 1500 claims of excessive force which was part of the 6600 over all claims of police misconduct.

    I firmly agree that a vast majority of misd./ordinance arrests could be hanlded by a summons vs a phycial arrest. There maybe some statutaory requirement for fingerprints and photos for certain offenses. I too think cops become ‘stat hungry’ to please supervisors.


    Well thank you Brent thorton to contributing to the conversation and debate. You comments are very helpful and appretiated.

    Old man, I;m hear cause I like people like brent!!

    Carlos, I’m familiar with the seattle story. one of the “best” witnesses was interview by the tv about what she “saw” then the police dash cam was released. Showed the witness walking accross the street looking down, and then being started by the shots and THEN looked over at the police.. kind of a different story on tape. Also, this cop was newer and did not know the wood carver, so the fact the every other cop knew of somewhat knew this guy doesn’t factor in. And a departmental finding’s doesnt mean a crime didn’t occurr. When a PD says a shooting or what ever is justified, that normally means that the cop didn’t violate policy, and the shooting look legal to them. But it’s up to the prosecutor in EVERY case to review and rule on the case.

  • The FBI reports:

    Justifiable Homicide by police in 2009 was 409 (I was a bit low)
    Justifiable Homicide by private citizen in 2009 was 261

    Your more likely to be killed by your own relative, during a robbery, or by a juvenile gang mamber, then the police..

  • Carlos


    If ALL COPS are very good human beings, they are just Angels, just Saints that NEVER do inappropriate things…right?
    Then, why don’t you go and LICK their asses?

  • Defjeff

    @ commonsense

    LOL at your statistic “…the chance of you being dragged from your bed and executed by the police during a search warrant raid is around 0.02%.”

    Let’s see, there are ~400 million people in the U.S…



    By the way, here is another interesting statistic… According to the LA times (6/7/2011) “…The last figure released by the Mexican government on the number of dead during its 4 1/2-year, military-led crackdown on organized crime came in January, at just over 34,000. It covered the period from the start of the drug war in December 2006 until the end of 2010.) Wikipedia says there are 112 million people in Mexico. So one could say that over a 4 1/2 year period, a person living in Mexico only has a .03% chance of being executed by a drug cartel.

    Me thinks you might want to more carefully scope and define your statistics. You make it sound like the police in this country are “executing people from their beds” at nearly the same rate as the Mexican drug cartels. Hell, if you guys are executing .02% of the people each year, then you are many times more effective at ‘bedside executions’ than the drug cartels!

  • Common Sense

    No, the numbers show that however you say it, the incidents of police misconduct are tiny comparied to the number of time the police contacts someone.

    And no, when you cross the number of police shootings, to total executed police search warrants you get .04% Your including 400 million people (population is 304) which was/is not part of the math.

    When you compare the number of police contacts, say 500 million, to police shootings, you get 0.0000024%

  • And sorry perhaps you math is faulty, in Mexico, the percentage of being killed by a drug cartel with you number is 3.03%, based on the numbers I have read, its around 4.08%

  • WOLF

    @T, COMMONSENSE, & POSSGT: Here’s an instance of more than one cop doing something illegal. Now lets hear how good you poLICE are..

    Cops Trolled Driver’s License Database for Pic of Hot Colleague

    A former female police officer, suspecting randy colleagues were abusing Minnesota’s driver’s license database to look her up, discovered that 104 officers in 18 different agencies across the state had accessed her driver’s license record 425 times, using the state database as their personal Facebook service.

    104 cops and 18 agencies??? But shit only happens with one or two bad apples, YA RIGHT!!!

  • Carlos


    Please, don’t be such a FOOL and MORON.

    The MISCONDUCT incidents that involve COPS and that are KNOWN to us are the ones where the civilians involved had a CAM RECORDER [or WITNESSES] and recorded EVERYTHING that happened during their interactions with the THUGS [cops].

    There are a LOT of incidents of POLICE MISCONDUCT that go UNREPORTED because people fear RETALIATION, because they didn’t have a CAMERA to back up their version of the incidents or there were NO witnesses to corroborate their version of the incidents.

    ONLY incidents were there were WITNESSES or got VIDEOTAPED make their way to the NEWS. Therefore, the number of incidents COULD be a LOT HIGHER than it’s actually reported.




  • t.

    @bullshit : boy does that moniker fit you perfectly. Somehow I missed your comments earlier, but wow what a pile.

    But your right, you aren’t obligated to be respectful. Common human decency is beyond you. And the police will respect and treat you accordingly..

    My college g.p.a. was 3.92 while working full time (not on mommy and daddies dime, like you probably did) But thanks for caring.

    Who is striping peoples humans rights? I go back to your moniker, bullshit.

  • @Wolf..


  • Carlos


    Don’t be such a FOOL and a MORON.

    Not ALL the MISCONDUCT incidents involving COPS interactions with civilians get reported.

    Some people either FEAR RETALIATION if they go on record and report the incidents, or they didn’t have any recording device at the time of the incident or there were NO WITNESSES present to backup their version of the incidents against the cops’ version. Thus, it would be the version of half-dozen THUGS [sorry, I meant COPS] against the version of just one person. And, as usual, our JUDGES will side with COPS which is the norm in the U.S.A.

    Therefore, half dozen cops can beat the hell out of somebody and if this person didn’t have a camera, or there were no witnesses, the incident would likely go unreported and will NOT make part of the news and statistics you are claiming.

    Even so, there are still so many incidents that go on-record if give us a fresh perspective of who are those “ARCHANGELS” known as C-O-P-S.





  • Carlos


    If you are going to waste some time of your and other people coming here to post, do yourself a favor and post something valuable, worth reading, not the same non-sense and bullshit you’re used to.


  • @Carlos

    Please post figures that counter mine.

  • Carlos


    [NOTE: I’m re-posting a past post I made earlier which didn’t go through cause it contained some external LINKS and, it looks like ADEMO FREEMAN needs to check the links to make sure they are OK before allowing the post]


    Don’t be such a FOOL and a MORON.

    Not ALL the MISCONDUCT incidents involving COPS interactions with civilians get reported.

    Some people either FEAR RETALIATION if they go on record and report the incidents, or they didn’t have any recording device at the time of the incident or there were NO WITNESSES present to backup their version of the incidents against the cops’ version. Thus, it would be the version of half-dozen THUGS [sorry, I meant COPS] against the version of just one person. And, as usual, our JUDGES will side with COPS which is the norm in the U.S.A.

    Therefore, half dozen cops can beat the hell out of somebody and if this person didn’t have a camera, or there were no witnesses, the incident would likely go unreported and will NOT make part of the news and statistics you are claiming.

    Even so, there are still so many incidents that go on-record if give us a fresh perspective of who are those “ARCHANGELS” known as C-O-P-S.

  • @Carlos

    Like I said, please post emperical information.

    Lets say there are 250,000 complaints of misconduct vs all police interactions, say there are 75 million per year – including all traffic stops, all 911 calls for service, all the police hassling someone etc spread acorss 50 states, 850,000 officers in 17500 police departments, that’s 0.003%

  • Carlos


    What are you implying then? I mean, what’s your point? Trying to convince me and the people at COPBLOCK to think otherwise?

    Don’t you know or understand that people that come here [excepting BADGE-LICKERS, like you], have already made up our minds based on the evidence presented to us by the facts on hand?

    Why your CRUSADE to TRY to convince people at a web-site that was founded upon and is known for denouncing police MISCONDUCT of otherwise?

    I mean, I don’t get it.

    Are you so DENSE? or pretending to be a DUMB or just trying to STIR the POT? What is your agenda?


  • Doug in Kettering Ohio

    I was jumped for refusing the breathalyzer, I thought it was my right to do so, the cops thought otherwise.
    The charges against me for daring to not be beaten quietly were not pressed so long as I pleaded guilty to an OVI… the Judge mentioned through my lawyer that if I choose to take the case to court he would go for max jail time = 6 months for a first OVI despite no victim, no damages, and no evidence.

  • defjeff


    “And no, when you cross the number of police shootings, to total executed police search warrants you get .04% Your including 400 million people (population is 304) which was/is not part of the math.”

    Is it just me, or are your statistics getting more convoluted? First you said “…the chance of you being dragged from your bed and executed by the police during a search warrant raid is around 0.02%.” (implies that the odds of an average american getting shot under these circumstances would be .02%, and would therefore include the entire US population, as it clearly implies that the statistic fully includes the odds of a search warrant being served in the first place.)

    Now your saying that the number of police shootings DURING a search warrant are .04% (implies that % number is first filtered to include only the number of americans subject to a search warrant being served, and yet now the statistic is doubled…)

    Also, “And sorry perhaps you math is faulty, in Mexico, the percentage of being killed by a drug cartel with you number is 3.03%, based on the numbers I have read, its around 4.08%”

    I didn’t give a 3% figure, I gave a .03% figure… your 4% figure would indicate nearly 4.5 million people killed by the drug cartels (sorry, not my math that is faulty).

    Also, your statistics do not indicate any time constraints. Are your figures limited to a year, to a lifetime, or the the entire recorded history of such events? At least with the quickly surmised estimate I gave on the mexican statistics, I indicated it was over 4.5 years…

    Basically, what I am saying is not that you are wrong, per se. What I am saying is that you are not being clear, and that you are not doing justice to the weight of the statistics you are providing.

  • defjeff

    “WOLF says:
    February 27, 2012 at 3:53 pm
    @T, COMMONSENSE, & POSSGT: Here’s an instance of more than one cop doing something illegal. Now lets hear how good you poLICE are..

    Cops Trolled Driver’s License Database for Pic of Hot Colleague

    A former female police officer, suspecting randy colleagues were abusing Minnesota’s driver’s license database to look her up, discovered that 104 officers in 18 different agencies across the state had accessed her driver’s license record 425 times, using the state database as their personal Facebook service.

    104 cops and 18 agencies??? But shit only happens with one or two bad apples, YA RIGHT!!!”

    “Common Sense says:
    February 27, 2012 at 4:28 pm


    Another very unclear post… I could surmise that you either think Mr. Wolf’s story is not newsworthy, as it is common practice and happens all the time, or you think that it doesn’t matter for some other odd reason(s) that one can only speculate about…

    Looks to me like the police cannot be trusted with a simple database. This type of event occasionally happens in the medical field as well, and when it does, people get fired and go to jail.

    Shouldn’t people get fired and go to jail in this instance? Why would they be harrassing this woman, and why would they be mis-using facilities entrusted by the public to do so?

  • The Police Ain’t My Friend

    I dislike law enforcement with an passion. I have NO sympathy for any of them at all.

  • Common Sense

    Perhaps I wasn’t clear, I will clarify tomorrow my numbers…

  • Jim

    the time is quickly approaching when these type of thugs pay with their blood.

  • the redcoats now wear black

    i could tell ya what happens when you have no “cred”.. But i’m still waiting for my jaw to heal up.

  • Common Sense

    Perhaps this will clear it up for you….

    Annually there are 30,000 search warrants executed per year of all types, narcotics, weapons, searches for stolen property etc. 1200 police shootings (people hit, not hit, where bullets fired) per year equals 0.04%.

    I derived 1200 from the number of total FBI reported officer involved shooting leading to death (400) then averaged it against the LA County Sheriff who did an excellent study on shootings in their department. 50 police shootings last year, 1/2 were hit, 1/2 were not. Of those hit, approximately 1/3 were killed. 1200 seemed logical for his comment. (The numbers were actually 406 and 51 respectively but I rounded them for calculations)

    NYPD 34500, NYC 8100000 equals police vs population ratio of 0.004%
    Kneene NH PD 38, Kneene NH 24400 equals police vs population ratio of 0.001% (doesn’t sound like a police state to me)

    Police kill 400 people per year. 30,000 search warrants eqauls 0.013% if everyone one of ALL police shootings took place during the execution of just search warrants.

    Police have 1200 shooting per year (on average). As an assumption, there are 100 million police contacts with the population per year. That’s all calls to 911, traffic stops, search warrants, vol. contacts, everything, in every city, county, covering 50 states with 17000 police departments. That equals 0.000012%

    Chance of a police department having a officer involved shooting 0.07% (1200/17000)

    Police misconduct complaints of all types…there is no national clearing house for complaints. One site cited 6600 complaints over 2010. I only assume thats from news releases, internet searches, etc. Matched against ALL police contacts – 0.000066%. Perhaps is 6600 is low. Lets go to 250,000/yr. When matched against ALL police contacts equals 0.0025%. Lets say 250,000 complaints against just the DOJ/FBI stats for ALL national arrests, just reported arrests was 14 million last year. 0.017% (The website listed 1500 uses of excessive force from the original 6600 but using 1500 against total police contacts is also, low in my opinion and not considered)

    Federal civil suits? Annaully there are 25-35,000 per year against the police. Use 30,000 and you get the name percentages as above.

    Lets say there are 750,000 police (I think there are around 850,000 but taking off some for supervisors, detectives, animal control – the non-patrol officers equates to 750,000) Match against 30,000 lawsuits you get 0.04% of a police officer facing a civil suit.

    Using numbers from the FBI, percentage of typical police officer being killed by a felonious act is 0.00009% (71 firearms death 2010 / 750,000) 53,000 reported assaults towards police from 550,000 total officers from reporting 11000 agencies equals 0.096% 26% of those 53,000 needing medical attention.

    The average citizen kills legally 64% as many citizens as the police do (261/406 in 2010).

    US population 304,000,000 vs 400 police shooting involving in death to the suspect? 0.00000132%.

    You are more likely to be killed by a relative, during a robbery, or by a juvenile gang member then by the police (FBI stats). There is on average, one fatal police shooting per day nationwide. There is one murder in Los Angeles city per day. NYC has 1.5 murders per day.

    Clearly, the numbers show that while police misconduct exists and is sometimes shocking, it is a tiny fraction of all police interations with the general population.

  • t.

    Comments: uncommonly spendable.

  • certain

    The general public might have a different opinion of how many of those killings were “justified”. Just because the PD and DA say they are, that means nothing. Especially when the claim of justified is followed up by a large cash settlement.

    Remember, it was the PD and DA that said only 2 of the 6 cops that beat Kelly Thomas to death were acting unlawfully. The other ones were let off the hook because they supposedly didn’t know the first 2 were doing something illegal, and only ran over and started beating him because they thought their assistance was needed.

  • certain


    You wal-mart door watching post is waiting….

  • t

    Certain: Classy as always Just keep believing that “the liberal way”‘ it the right way. It’ll serve you well. Some really polured your mind and that truly is a shame. Reminds me of the old slogan, “A mind is a terrible thing to waste”. In that sense, you are a waste. Sad.

  • Common Sense

    And how am I a ‘waste’ by showing some numbers? Puts things into prespective.

  • Common Sense


    “Of the more than 100 cases submitted to Harris County grand juries in the last five years, only two police shootings have been true-billed. This article details the one where the officer was found guilty; in the other, the officer was found not guilty by a jury.”

    So that’s 50 officer involved shootings per year for a county that covers Houston, LA County had 51 – seems within the norm. Please cite “the 65 unarmed persons killed in Harris County” in one year.

    (I found the articel you cited, its over the course of 6 years, not 1 year.)

    As reported by NPR in 2009 – Shootings of citizens by Harris County law officers already this year have overtaken the number of shootings last year, as well as the year before. As of Sept. 24, a total of 44 police shootings have occurred, up from 35 in all of 2008, and 32 in 2007

    Like I said, once you do some math, your more likely to be killed by your own relative, then a cop.

    @Carlos – I looked at the site, that’s where I came up with the 6600 complaints. I think the number is underreported, but even when you jump to 250,000 complaints, its a hard leap to say ALL cops are bad.

  • Carlos


    In case you did not read my very LAST post, I will copy/paste it below so you have no excuse to write you did not see it.

    Carlos says:
    February 27, 2012 at 5:55 pm


    What are you implying then? I mean, what’s your point? Trying to convince me and the people at COPBLOCK to think otherwise?

    Don’t you know or understand that people that come here [excepting BADGE-LICKERS, like you], have already made up our minds based on the evidence presented to us by the facts on hand?

    Why your CRUSADE to TRY to convince people at a web-site that was founded upon and is known for denouncing police MISCONDUCT of otherwise?

    I mean, I don’t get it.

    Are you so DENSE? or pretending to be a DUMB or just trying to STIR the POT? What is your agenda?


    Keep telling yourself that COPS are “ANGELS” and “SAINTS” who “NEVER” do bad deeds…

    “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”

    Joseph Goebbels

  • Common Sense

    the point is to put things into a perspective.

    you can say that police misconduct is everywhere, when really its not. you can say police killed all the time, when they don’t, you can cite the number of ecessive force complaints, and discover that its seldom that police brutality occurs..

  • Carlos


    WOW!!! You win!

    [/sarcasm on/] All right! You’ve convinced me. Cops are nothing but “ANGELS”. They do not do misconduct acts, they do not shoot people, they do not brutalize people, they do not fabricate evidence, they do not kill people. From now on, I am a “COP LOVER”, just like you. From now on, I am going to WORSHIP them. This Site [CopBlock] and InjusticeEverywhere should not exist nor YouTube videos about “Police Brutality” since it’s non-existent [/sarcasm off/]

    Are you pleased now?

  • defjeff

    @commonsense — Thanks for the re-visit on the statistics. It was a good read, and definitely clarified the message behind the statistics, which you summarized as “Clearly, the numbers show that while police misconduct exists and is sometimes shocking, it is a tiny fraction of all police interations with the general population.” I would agree with that. I generally find the police to be very professional. I think that on the occasions where they don’t live up to that particular standard, it generates alot of emotional response from the people. Also, the police are often the ‘face’ of the government so to speak, so alot of anti-government sentiment gets directed at the police.

    Personally, I think that there is a very delicate balance between insfufficient police power and capabilities, and too much police power and capabilities. With all of the focus on ‘homeland security’, it seems like 9-11 is being used to justify everything from airport anal probes to hasseling photographers on the street.

    I think that what we will find is that the closer the government gets into the faces of average Americans in the name of “security”, the more pushback and anti-police sentiment will be generated.

  • Common Sense

    @Carlos – thanks

    @defjeff – Gov’t involement is a concern, I am no fan of the TSA, but the ‘minor’ inconvenience of a pat down to travel (I fly at least every other month) is a small burden to bare until legislator undertand your more like to drown, then be killed by a terrorist.

    Certainly police misconduct is an issue, but not the ‘nationwide epidemic’ as is sometimes presents. I recently read Metro (Washington DC) police has charged 23 of their own with crimes in 2010 an effort to weed out corruption. From various misdemeanors to felonies, including one for murder. But just because 0.006 of their total police force (3800) were charged, does not make the remainder guilty by association..

  • Carlos

    How many of those so called “BAD APPLES” Cops were actually TURNED IN by the “majority” of the so called “GOOD COPS”?

    How did those corruption stories become known to the press and the general public? Did the “good” Cops start turning in the “bad” ones?

    For HOW LONG have those corruption/abuses been happening BEFORE they were brought to public knowledge?

    I’m going to cite an example that may or may not apply to Cops but has similarities: The TWO Pennsylvania JUDGES that…for Y-E-A-R-S were accepting KICKBACKS from a PRISON OWNER to jail youths for misdemeanors. This corruption scheme was going ON and ON for…YEARS before it was discovered. NO ONE KNEW this was happening and, by the time it was discovered, MANY youths’ lives had been RUINED.

    The same analogy above, applies to COPS. Do you know how MANY CORRUPTION cases are happening RIGHT NOW at PDs [Police Departments] ACROSS the U.S.A. before they become of public knowledge?

    How are those Police corruption cases [still CONCEALED] made of public knowledge? By other “good” Cops? I DOUBT it. They are usually discovered by the FBI [cases of corruption], the PUBLIC, armed with cameras [in cases of Police BRUTALITY], etc.

    When are the so called “good” Cops going to start TURNING IN the “BAD” Cops???


  • Lurker


    I would never cover up a dirty cop. I’d turn them in asap. It wouldn’t be the most popular decision around but that doesn’t matter. Their activity would undermine everything I do to gain public trust and respect (which I do very well).

  • WOLF

    Does anyone but myself seem to notice how T, NOcommonsenst, and POSSGT all seem to think they will discredit all articles that show the cops for what they really are??? PART OF THE BIGGEST STREET GANG IN AMERICA.

    @ defjeff, Article is not unclear at all, so maybe you should either put your glasses on or attend a “Hooked on Phonix” class. This shows these cops and agencies doing illegal things with the database, but since you seem incapable of comprehending what you are reading, I will put you in the same classroom as T, NOcommonsense, and POSSGT

  • WOLF

    Hey T, NOcommonsense, POSSGT, & defjeff, Did I happen to mention:


    It does not take a rocket scientist to see what will happen when Oshithead tells these idiots to confiscate all the citizens owned guns. I truly hope one of you 4 assholes tries to take mine. I am not an extremely brave person, however, breach my door and die like the fucking scum you are..

  • Carlos


    If you sell, let’s say laptops, would you use a sales pitch where you say the the products you intend to sell are of POOR QUALITY?
    What would you sell, then?

    See the analogy?

    Do you think really that: POSSGT, Mr. T and CommonSense would say that COPS are CORRUPT and evil? I certainly doubt it.

    They’d rather DIE while swearing on a Bible that either all Cops are “ANGELS” or that just a…”TINY” fraction of them [0.00000000001%] are bad.


  • Carlos

    Think about COPS [especially the ones who like to come here to discredit whatever article posted, e.g. POSSGT, CommonSense, Mr. “T” et al.] as car salesmen at a dealership.

    No car salesman is NEVER going to tell you that the make they’re trying to sell you is under performing or that it’s worse than the ones at the parking lot of dealer “B”. They’re always going to claim that the cars they sell are the best on the market. Period

    The same applies to Common, POSSGT, “T” and others here. They will ALWAYS post that Cops aren’t bad. They will say that we all are “DOPES” disgruntled with the system because supposedly we “want the Government to legalize drugs”, even when many of us have never smoked even cigarettes or being in jail for drugs.

    They are the “pigeons” and we’re the “hawks”. IRONIC, isn’t it?


  • Common Sense


    Ah yes, the repeated cry “They will take my guns…”

    That’s been going on for about 30 years, hasn’t happened yet. I have yet to see semi trucks labelled “ATF” rolling through the neighborhoods collecting (legal) guns by force. I’m sure in your Alex Jones trained mind, you’ll pull a news story out of your ass about some finite situation but overall, its just fear among the gov’t haters. Considering you can walk into a Walmart and by an AR15/M4 with a credit card, stop singing that song…

  • Common Sense


    I have never said ‘cops aren’t bad’ I’ve said that sometimes cops do bad things. Same with doctors, plumbers, and soldiers..

    What I have pointed out, that those incidents are rare, shocking sometimes and disheartening, but rare nonetheless.

  • Speezo

    I got a little math.

    “Common Sense” has posted 22 times on this board since Feb 26, 7:27pm.

    Just don’t let him see http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/ or he won’t have enough time to eat anymore with all the cop stats he has to try to argue that they can do no wrong, well only like .00000001% of the time or whatever crap stat he made up.

    It’s almost like the cat gets paid to comment on this site with how often he does it.

  • Ademo Freeman

    He also trolls our YouTube page, so add another 30 + comments to his total. He’s David Lister 6000 over there…

  • Common Sense

    Actually I have seen that site several times, if you had actually read te comments you would know that… It’s all good though.

  • WOLF

    @NOcommonsense: Ya, it is the cry since the 1970’s. You know that’s when they tried the first time in my lifetime to take the guns. You know what stopped them??? People with guns….Of course you not being born until 2008 wouldn’t know anything about then, only what your Gestapo brethren tell you.

    So according to you, FEMA camps do not exist, nor does the NDAA, nor does the new trespassing law to hide behind from citizens of this country all protected by the BLUE LINE OF GESTAPO. Even though these laws are unconstitutional, the porkers choose to enforce the promise made to defend the state instead of honor their oath.

    And since you have stated you are not a gestapo agent, then the way you post YOU HAVE TO BE A LIBERAL GROUPIE PIG. Do they let you smell their jock straps when they wash the blood off before they go home at night?

    I do not need to bring up more articles on rape, murder, theft from evidence rooms, extortion, etc. as there seems to be an abundance each day. So you just go ahead and spew your rage against the citizens of this country and defend The Biggest Street Gang in America. Lotsa Luck fool…

  • @Common, I’m not disputing your numbers of 409 FOIS in 2009, but your math is off. That would be a 0.000081% of being a victim of one. Yes, the odds of being killed by police are quite slim, but that is of little consolation to those who are killed or their families.

    So I ask you this, what is the acceptable number of innocent people killed by police each year? Are you okay with 20? 10? 5? 1? Would you volunteer you mother, father, sister, brother tot meet that quota.

    Now, how often do we hear police cry about how dangerous their jobs are, but using you figure of 500 million contact that works out to a 0.000013% chance of an officer being the victim of a fatal felonious assault. That is also an extremely small number

    But I see that when it comes to any given police/citizen contact, the citizen is 700% more likely to end up dead.

  • Common Sense


    No, I don’t think that being a cop is something ultra dangerous profession, but you can thank hollywood and tv for that. I think being a farmer is actually more dangerous. But farmers don’t make the news (unless of course they are growing pot)

    How did you derive the 700%? I am curious.

    And the answer would be 0 in a perfect world with perfect people. But the same argument could be made about people driving drunk or high with kids, or even backing over their children or letting them drowned in a unattended bathtub.

    I remember watching a video from down south, two cops in it, I think and it shows how a man while he was ‘armed’ with a cell phone was shot. Sadly, and for reasons unknown, he pointed the black cell phone in an outstretched arm and at first glimpse, it looked very much like a pistol. He was shot and killed. I disagree with ‘waistband’ shootings, but it they have a gun, or something that looks like a gun, they do not need to wait for it to go boom before they shoot.

    I read a FBI study years ago, police shootings, I think the study covered about 70% of police shootings for a given time. When using revolvers (that’s how old the study was) take place in 3 seconds and 2 bullets, on average, are fired. With semi automatic pistols, it was 2 seconds, and 4 bullets were fired on average. Is 2 or 3 seconds enough to decide to shoot or not to shoot? I know that for accidents, the reaction time is 3 seconds. I don’t know.

    I also read another study more recently about ‘shootings in the back’ and it said that 98 out of 100 people that fired at the police and turned and fled, were all shot in the back by the police. This was of course a study and not real, but it went to show that that the human brain, when the signal to fire was given, could not be interrupted. It was a classroom of students I think.

    Additionally, I just saw another video yesterday, this one where the police wore a camera on a headset, and the man walked in to a police station, though armed with a knife, he was not killed or as WOLF would claim, “executed upon sight” by the police, he was tasered and taken into custody without death or permanent injury. I think this is the norm, not the oddity.

  • Idiot block

    If you can do the job better then do it!!!!


  • Carlos


    I am really PUZZLED.

    Could you one time in your life be HONEST with yourself and answer the questions below, please?

    What is really what you want? What is the REAL purpose of your statistics? Who are you trying to convince or change minds? What drives you to do what you are doing? Troll? Just being paid to do this? A retired person with lots of time to spend at CopBlock?

    Besides taking some little time to post here, I have a 9-5 job as a Help Desk technician for an IT Department in a private company and I do not have plenty of time to post as OFTEN as you do. So, you’ve got me puzzled about you.

  • t.

    Carlos: Really. You’re; n here a lot too. So is the idiot Lakewood. I see Common Sense’s stats as food for thought in the discussion. It’s very clear that you don’t lie the police and the government. That’s OK. You tend to offer up links to ultra-liberal websites that show one sided stories supporting your side. And that’s OK too. I don’t know who common sense is. But I know that I get blasted for calling for everyone to be responsible (oh god, how unthinkable). Everyone hates the overreaching “police state” but no one says that they will hold themselves or their friends accountable for what they do.

    If everyone on this site would dial it down a bunch, there might be an interesting exchange of ideas. But as is, it’s always attack, attack. So be it I guess.

  • Carlos

    @ “T” :

    It’s not that I “hate” cops for hatred’s sake.

    What I really hate is the PRIVILEDGES that Cops [also known as “Law Enforcement”] have in this country that the average citizen doesn’t.

    Let me put here some of the things I HATE about cops:

    • You Cops can usually commit the most heinous crimes and get AWAY with it and an average citizen CAN’T.

    • When sentencing a cop for the SAME crime committed against a citizen, I have seen that the sentences guidelines that usually apply to an average citizen, do NOT apply to cops. For example, if a citizen kills somebody he/she is going to get the tougher sentence for the same crime than if a cop does the same.

    • Cops can shield behind this: If a cop is pursuing a “suspect” and the “suspect” tries to reach into his waistband the cop can shoot him and kill him on the spot, even if he WASN’T trying to reach a gun and then, in court, the cop can allege that he thought the guy was trying to reach a gun and, because he was ‘fearing” for his life, he had to shoot the guy. Usually, the case is dismissed and the cop’s actions are justified.

    • Cops [in absence of video-cameras or witnesses], can beat a citizen nearly to death and then can allege that the citizen was “RESISTING” [a word widely used by cops nowadays] the arrest and they were “forced” to use force to “subdue” the citizen. If something like this has the luck to go to court [because the citizen dares to sue the cops] it will probably get dismissed because it’s 2 or 4 cops word against the plaintiff.

    • Cops hate being filmed when they are dealing with someone on the street, where they are NOT supposed to have any expectations of PRIVACY. You Cops usually tell us: “If you are NOT doing ANYTHING WRONG, you have nothing to fear”, so what’s the point of OVERREACTING when being filmed?

    • If you badmouth a cop or show him the middle finger, he then comes up with the infamous “DISORDERLY CONDUCT” charges to justify throwing you in jail.

    • A cop can ILLEGALLY try to arrest you [sometimes based on a WRONG tip] and if you try to resist an illegal arrest, he slaps more charges on you rapsheet; among those “resisting the arrest”. Then, some so called “erudite” recommends to let yourself be arrested and thrown in jail without resisting the cop and…WAIT to fight that arrest in court. Who guarantees you that once you’ve been in jail you will be able to PREVAIL in a judiciary system that has proven beyond any reasonable doubt that USUALLY SIDES with Cops?

    • I have read news about Cops sometimes arresting someone due to a MISTAKEN IDENTITY and, after Cops have found out that this person has been illegally in jail in lieu of somebody else, they are NOT held accountable for the mistake. The affected person cannot sue and, Cops usually don’t even bother issuing at least an apology for THEIR mistake. [There is a case like this that happened in Colorado to a woman last year 2011].

    • Cops can conduct NON-KNOCK home searches based SOLELY on suspicion that they “SMELLED” marijuana and can even shot people or pets and not be held accountable for their actions because they were…”DOING THEIR JOBS”.

    • Cops can tase people [which sometimes leads to deadly injuries] based solely in a LOOSE charge of “disorderly conduct” and, if the person gets a brain damage or other related injuries, Cops can still get away with it because they were…”doing their jobs” and the person was acting “disorderly”.

    • Cops can touch you or beat you but, sometimes for no reason, but you cannot do the same to them or make physical contact with them because if you do, it’s called “ASSAULTING a police officer” which leads to a harsh sentence in court.

    • Cops are PAID with our TAXES but we cannot demand accountability when they break the law.

    • The so called “GOOD” cops NEVER turn in the BAD cops. Whenever a BAD cop has been brought to justice for his/her actions is mainly due to courageous and responsible citizen[s] or the FBI.

    All these things exposed above have me FRUSTRATED and distrusting the FAIRNESS of our judiciary system and… Cops. It’s not that I hate Cops to death; it’s just that I dislike INJUSTICE and, PRIVILEDGES for a FEW that are paid with OUR TAXES and on which we put our trust.

    This is a society where SUPPOSEDLY we ALL have the same rights and no one should be granted privileges at the expense of others.


  • t.

    Carlos: Really well stated. I’ll disagree with a lot of that, but I think it’s really a matter of perspective.

    – The equal sentencing. To be fair, when a police officer is arrested there isn’t very often any “record” to lengthen that sentence. I know, I know, that’s just because “this is just the first time he got caught.”. Well I can say that same thing about everyone I arrest. No real privilege there.

    – Waistebands. There is a good old rule of thumb, “action is faster than reaction.”. What that means is in the heat of battle (a battle brought on by that suspects actions) and the suspect decides to make a furtive movement towards his waistband. Now where do most people carry weapons? Either in their waistbands or in a pocket. Now what would someone make that movement? Could be actually going for a weapon. Could be they are trying to intimidate the police by making them think his has a gun (believe it or not, most officers have no desire to shoot someone or be involved in a violent encounter, lots of cops have quit lots of pursuits because of the danger). My point about the the action is faster is if there is a weapon, and he takes the first action and gets it, and I wait to react to that action, I’ll be hurt or killed. Why does that make it better? Why should I except that violence towards me? I shouldn’t. These incidents are tragic. But they are brought on by that persons free will choice.

    – Beating people. I’ve been accused. Thankfully the last time there was video from an unusual source that showed that not only was there no beating, but a very minimal amount of contact at all. My point is, people lie. Had another occasion where I fought a guy in the middle of a very busy street, he had assault a business owner, left but was quickly walking back to the same business for more when I met him in the street. Big ugly fight in the street, cars going around us, and in the end he looked pretty bad. When the investigation took place, even the “street people” came up saying how I give the guy every chance to quit but he wouldn’t. My point is, everything isn’t always what it seems.

    – Video. I’ve said clearly and often, FILM FILM FILM. Just don’t get involved. BUT I can understand why some officers don’t want to be filmed. Just watch some of the hatchet jobs that are done to officer on this site and other (this site being probably the worst). Edited video making it look like an officer planted drugs in someone. A clear lie. Some guy filming the police doing a good / great job but he posts it here with outrageous narrative about them stalking him or some such nonsense. Really now, can you blame officers for not wanting to be filmed? I agree with you that they can be, but be honest, can you blame them for not wanting to?

    – Identity. I was involved in a drug case where we had video of the transaction, the address where he lived, Facebook photos and information, and his somewhat unusual name. I even walked up to him myself and looked him in right in the face at close range. Turns out there was another young guy, similar unusual name and looked like his twin. After the arrest was made, and the error was discovered, we worked, had case dismissed, and record (of the incident as he had other drugs arrests) expunged.

    – No knocks. I don’t know where you live. Where I live and work you need a whole lot more than that. I written no knocks as a drug detective and served them while on the SWAT team. HERE, it requires a lot, and when issued, have always proven necessary. In fact , I don’t know of one that wasn’t. I think people have a totally irrational fear about this.

    – Tasers Tasers Tasers. Unfortunately, a short sited US supreme Court is going to see to the end old this issue. The taser has stopped far, FAR more injury than it has caused. There have been deaths. But there have been deaths due to lots of police actions. And no, they aren’t acceptable. But everyone just wants to blame the police and never hold the ‘victim/suspect’ accountable at all for their actions. Most police involved deaths are drug related. The victim/suspect overwhelmingly has some drug in their system, usually in high amounts. Don’t just blame the police.

    – Police accountablity. Really, are you kidding me. I don’t think you have a true understanding of how police departments work. I am held to an incredibly high standard. I can’t go out on the weekend and even have a drink with dinner without fear that someone will call and complain that my conduct is a bad example. Internal affairs checks my bank accounts, my emails, social media, even my garbage. I really don’t think you have a clue about it. No offense.

    – Bad cops. Simply not true. Several investigations that I have worked on have resulted in officers losing their jobs. No they weren’t arrested, but neither several other “non-cops”. I don’t want the “bad cops” either. But there really aren’t that many.

    – Injustice. Again I say it’s matter of perspective. I see injustice all the time. People who I’ve caught “red handed” walking nonsense that some liberal judge says or because a jury of government haters sets them free to offend again. It’s all perspective. Your side wins and I see injustice. My side wins, and you see injustice. It’s not am perfect system.

    – Privilege. I gave up a lot of money to become a cop. I’ve passed up a lot of business oppurtunities over the years to keep doing it. In think it important and needs to be done by people that understand it’s importance. But in over 16 years, I haven’t yet seen the privilege of which you speak. It’s just the opposite, we give up a lot of the freedom and privilege that other citizens enjoy. Sorry but I think you’ve got this one way wrong.

  • Wow……just wow. Alright, here is my .02 worth. The entry above mine is a well thought out self-justification of the police. Yes, all are valid to a degree. However, there is more than enough evidence found on the net to dispute a lot of this. Yes, the corrupt members of a police force are a very small minority of those forces, however, those members are suspected by fellow officers long before they make headlines or news stories on the t.v. My take is this. If you are an officer who follows the laws, takes the rights of the citizenry seriously, you have my respect, my applause to you. But, if you know or suspect another of your ranks as corrupt or probable of being corrupt and you do or say nothing to bring about an investigation, you, in my opinion, are part of the problem that exists today. You may complain about the stereotyping of your proffession till you become hoarse, you will not have my sympathy. It is the straight officer’s duty to police the police as well as us in the public. You want our respect, earn it. Do a better job. Stop the jack-booted tactics. Exhibit some respect yourself, and you may be surprised as to how much respect you receive in return. Stop the profiling of minorities. Welcome the right of citizens to record your interactions. Act Human. Having said this, Good luck to you in your career and I hope you remain safe.

  • To all cops everywhere..if you think you big and bad in your little ass stupid county..i got some words for you..transfer to chicago and just see how long you live or how fast you’ll be running back to your fuck-town..my niggas ruthless and give not a fuck about a bitch with a badge and also shoot at law when bored(shoot to kill)..they call 911 and have shooters waitin to wack the first bitch that responds first…we dont play with authority nor like em so come to chiraq actin tough..i dare you.

  • Donald

    There is one thing everyone on here is overlooking the us constitution states every person arrested is innocent until proven guilty my whole problem with the laws are if that were so why are police allowed to hold you in a cell at all or detain you against your will it’s felony charge by the way that should be placed on every cop jail courts or judges because it’s clear violation of every American citizen number 2 cops now days have taken a military position in United States instead of public servant and that’s united state governments fault and these officers captains and Sargent for not disapline people under there command cops are not allowed to treat us like this number 3 the United States military and national guard are suppose to protect united state citizens from enemies foreign and domestic that’s the presidents fault for not guarantee United States citizens to be protected under constitinal rights

  • Dd

    One thing for sure I’m used to deal cocaine and became pretty powerful in community where I used to live sold it for roughly four years but that was like 15 years ago I don’t do nothing now but my clientele was so heavy with so many different people of different occupations but you know what I realized that I didn’t have many average joes or disadvantage people living on streets buying from me no it was cops lawyers under taker at morgue doctors some nurses but mostly cops lawyers I keep tab open for them all week sure they always paid up all the time not because they owed money but because they were worried that someone would find out and that they would be fired number 2 they also worried about if they busted me that there would be no where for them to get drug also because there was mutual respect they even offered me protection from rookie cops who were just trying to make name for their selves but I have noticed police around here now have taken a military stand against the people there sworn oath to protect now if they got job buy swearing to protect but are not protecting it’s citizens who are they protecting ? See being city worker or government or military employee gives them rights and benefits and privalages that are not offered to United State citizens that is discrimination and corruption at highest levels of government that is why United States has a military which also swore an oath to protect it’s citizens from enemies foreign and domestic that’s right people you of the United States have a military to call on also you have that right not just congress or presidents that’s an oath that even military would never break it has to much publicity and further more constitution was written by the people for the people and there is also an ammendement which guarantees that if the government fails to protect it’s citizens or to conduct business which benefits citizens we the people and tax payers have right to form our own government start reading people really know your rights look there one one man that I know of I’n my whole life that scared shit out of United States government more then and bin laden or al quida even more then japan or hitler you know who that was charlie Manson do you know why he scared them so bad because they were affraid of just one hippie imagine what all if us could do

  • Jack Nelson

    fuck everyone here.

  • Kaecyy

    You sound like one of the good ones, Mister T. Bravo to you for doing the best you can in a thoroughly corrupt, institutionally racist injustice system.

    I practice the sacred art of the Japanese sword in the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto-ryu, the oldest remaining sword sect in the world, and I get stopped all the time by various combinations of security guards, troopers, stormtroopers (riot shields, etc), and gestapo. For my WOODEN katana, no less— what is called in Japanese a bokuto… a fancy word for a stick!

    Usually the police are relatively cool and I actually have a good time talking to them, but both in my personal experience and with even a casual perusal of the historical and contemporary record, there are a LOT of bad apples in there, far, far more than the police can possibly have, IF they want to have even a shred of legitimacy as an institution.

    Obviously, they do not.

    Sometimes, they actually want to search you, or even see your genitals.

    In public.

    They claim to be searching for weapons, but I’ve had them not even touch my phone and camera and go straight for anything else, anything soft, I have in my pockets (so it’s best to have an erection, boys).

    This is criminal, police behavior.

    The police do this because a weapons search is actually a pretext for police to break the laws that govern them— and the social contracts under which we tolerate their existence— in order to search you for drugs. And this in turn is because of their filthy, vile, and corrupt World Civil Class & Race War on a Selection of Drug Users, which the US government has been expensively and ineffectively waging against our own people and the people of the world since 1937— with about one million POWs and counting in the USA alone.

    Even taken by itself, without their many other crimes against the public, this slow-burning genocide of a war invalidates the police totally as an organization.

    And so their questions and searches toward this corrupt and criminal end are deeply offensive to me— both personally and as an American, particularly one of Japanese descent— and particularly when they have already snuck up on me in force (like some kind of Pearl Harbor in reverse) and interrupted my religious practices because some xenophobe, some racist, some myopic, or some PTSD-wracked survivor of the Second World War has flipped their lid and called in the strike… on a dude carrying a stick. (Though this trouble does not eliminate my cultivation of compassion for those afflicted with these four terrible illnesses… three of which I have also suffered from myself.)

    Once the police have determined that I am in fact carrying a stick, and not a sword, it is obvious to anyone who believes in liberty— to any real American, for example— that apologies from the security forces and dismissal are in immediate order, and any further interruption of my religious practices, especially to feel me up and to gaze upon my genitalia, is at the least a violation of my religious freedom, my freedom from unreasonable searches, etcetera etcetera.

    My apologies for the fear of the ignorant public, but that’s why I meet them halfway, as an educator, and use the WOODEN STICK in public and not the metal sword, and I smile to the people I can’t avoid altogether. Hell, I’m so friendly, sometimes I even show the kids the basics of how to chop a man in half in the traditional Japanese way. Kids love me.

    The fact is, whether it’s Detroit or Denmark, the police everywhere in this world have such a long history of abuse, racism, murder, and corruption, they should all go the way of the SS and Kempeitai— they should be outright DISBANDED, and replaced by a totally new, unrelated, post-police organization geared toward the 21st Century— enshrining human rights and our life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness above ALL else, and especially for those already marginalized, such as minorities, women, LGBTQ people, and those in poverty.

    The police forces we have today routinely disrespect, violate, oppress, and abuse all of the above, and many more. In their everyday abuse of power and neglect of their duties, they commit or facilitate as many crimes as they solve, if not more, and greater crimes at that— societal crimes, which though less dramatic and less immediately tangible, through their pervasiveness affect everyone and do more harm to more people than any single serial killer or terrorist cell ever could— yes, even the ones who fly planes into buildings.

    This leads to historical and contemporary ironies such as the police unapologetically protecting America’s most powerful, influential, corrupting, organized, and dangerous criminals (who harm us all, including themselves)— such as the ones on Wall Street— while beating the crap out of dedicated, peaceful patriots exercising their Constitutionally enshrined rights (who harm no one)— such as the ones in Occupy Wall Street.

    Events such as the Memorial Day Massacre of 1937 in Chicago show us that historically, actions such as this are not an anomaly but rather the standard operating procedure of the police— which shouldn’t be that surprising, since after all, that’s the same year the current World Civil Class & Race War on a Selection of Drug Users began.

    Of course it goes back much further than that. The genocide, the marginalization, the repression, and the disrespect of sovereignty toward the only REAL, real Americans— the Native ones (the rest of us are really only immigrants)— is also a mostly ongoing series of government and police war crimes. COINTELPRO, anyone? Texas Rangers, anyone?

    Our police forces, who nominally work for us, and whom Americans really do pay and pay through the nose for the pleasure, are an occupying army with too much time, too many resources, too much power, too little to do, and no meaningful accountability— a combination that Mother History tells us is ALWAYS toxic for the surrounding civilian population.

    One “bad apple” discovered in any organization dealing with the public, particularly an armed and dangerous force like the police, is one far, far too many, and in our conditions only the tip of a vast iceberg— an indicator of hundreds more. The simple fact that it is nearly impossible to hold the police accountable for even the most outrageous and on video of their countless criminal acts, combined with the official unofficial Blue Code of Silence (“testilying”, anyone?), reveals what a medieval and obsolete organization the police, our courts, and our “justice” system really are— totally unsuitable to their legal duty and stated aim of “protecting” and “serving” the entire public equally, from Wall Street Wally to Janitor Joe.

    I’m sorry, but it’s the motherhumping 21st Century, girls and boys— the rich, the powerful, and the many have enough in their favor already, without an occupying army in their palm that busts everyone else’s chops, and delivers them into a selective punishment system rigged in favor of the affluent.

    It is also impossible for any civilized, intelligent, and educated person to accept the fact that in most if not all places in the world, the police are permitted to touch, molest, injure, incapacitate, or kill any of us with little chance of serious consequences, whereas to kill, to incapacitate, or even in many cases to even TOUCH a police officer, no matter how criminally the police may be behaving, in fact if not always law carries grave consequences, with a vast burden on the victim to prove police abuse before the rights of civilians to defend themselves against these frequently hostile, occupying soldiers are legally accepted.

    And that’s only if you’re (un)lucky enough to be taken ALIVE after the fact.

    Now look at the statistics of crime rates by race vs searches and arrests by race vs conviction rates by race vs sentencing rates by race. Among the entire world’s prison population— yeah, that includes China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, etc (AND YES, we do lock up more people than all of them and everyone else COMBINED)— among the entire world’s prison population, one in nine prisoners is an African AMERICAN male.

    Lady Justice ain’t blind, brothers and sisters, but she sure as hell is white, and she’s a flaming racist to boot.

    Ladies and gentlemen— in fact, we have no “justice” system. We have a selective punishment system. An injustice system. The police, our courts, and large swathes of our private industry (no state with a private prison industry has ANY claim to justice or legitimacy, nor will it ever), working in tandem and mutually protecting one another, are a legalized protection racket, parasitically feeding off our society while giving a few of us with paler skin and bigger bank accounts the illusion of security.

    “They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” —Dr Benjamin Franklin, Founding Grandfather

    As a pledge-bound defender of “liberty and justice for all”, and thus a real goddamn American— except under truly exceptional circumstances, I can no longer willingly cooperate with, utilize the services of, or respect the police or any other armed or coercive branch, of any government, that is existing and operating without the consent and support of the people who are most at risk in our civilization, that has a history of abuse coupled with a lack of accountability, that enjoys a de facto monopoly in society on violence even when behaving illegally or with criminal violence, or that is participating in, facilitating, or profiting from ongoing societal atrocities, such as poverty, social inequality, racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, the destruction of the environment, or the 1937 to present World Civil Class & Race War on a Selection of Drug Users.

    Thus, as of today, I declare my independence.

    As of today, I pledge as my patriotic duty, insofar as practically, legally, or covertly possible, to no longer recognize or respect the authority or legitimacy of the organized, criminal organization known as the “police”, nor that of any other armed or coercive force of parallel, analogous, or allied disposition, such as the NSA, the FBI, the CIA, the ATF, etc etc.

    In fact, I am exercising my democratic right, RIGHT NOW, and calling, loudly and clearly, for these obsolescent organizations to be disbanded immediately, and rebuilt from the ground up towards the humanitarian ends that I stated above.

    However, using my intelligence and my social aptitudes, to the best of my abilities I WILL respect and personally engage with the individuals in these corrupt organizations— many of them unprosecuted war criminals still at liberty, carrying weapons and the badge of government, yes, but also many of them good people with good hearts who have themselves been grossly disinformed and disserved by their government and society, as have we all— and in my engagement with these occupying soldiers I will try to educate and encourage them into reform, into disobedience, into resistance, or even into going the full Edward Snowden.

    You see, my friends, most actual cops I meet I really like, and I hit it off with them. And this, too, is an important way for our rebellion to grow. And grow.

    And grow.

    I suspect that it won’t be too many years before we have a full on Underground Railroad going for these kinds of heroes— I’m convinced that the more incentive and facilitation we can give whistleblowers to blow that whistle, the more of them will come out of the woodwork. It will take organization. It will take resources. But it has been done, it can be done again, and I believe it will be done. (French Resistance, anyone?)

    Thus as an Eagle Scout and former POW, I will do my best, to do my duty, to the gods and our civilization, to help tune them in, turn them on, and drop them the hell out.

    I strongly suggest the rest of you do the same. Each of us, both alone and together— to the best of our abilities.

    If you’ve made it this far, then you’re probably sharp enough to see the truth in what I say, and surely smart enough to make a difference. Let us do so— in any way that we can, for the rest of our lives.

    My friends— just because something is the law, it sure as hell doesn’t make it right.

    Total Civil Resistance is one key factor we must utilize toward attaining the post-police force we deserve, for the money we pay, to protect and serve ALL of us. Total Civil Resistance, in addition to seeking change through the legal channels, and through engagement with our governments.

    As Father History has proven, the legal channels for change available to us are utterly inadequate, and our resistance must move beyond the rigged selective punishment system to non-cooperation, divestment, and direct action at the least, and on up to outright espionage and sabotage where and when appropriate, available, and effective.

    With our police and security forces, we have a situation like the Wehrmacht and the Imperial Japanese Army— it’s the organization that is evil and must be destroyed, but not ALL of the people in it. But for the rest, we Americans really do need a Nuremberg/ Tokyo-style war crimes tribunal to mark the end of, for a start, the World Civil Class & Race War on a Selection of Drug Users, and to hold accountable those who have perpetrated, profited from, and perpetuated this ongoing, slow-burning social and racial genocide, which has been tearing our society apart for nearly a century.

    Obviously, the same is true for the not related War of Terror… it just hasn’t been true for as many years.


    “…with liberty and justice for all.”

    It rings proud, and great, but hollow. All of us Americans have pledged allegiance to a country that does not yet exist, and never has existed on the face of this Earth. And so it is our duty to fulfill that promise of our civilization, and to build that society— no matter what powers we have to face, and what institutions we have to tear to the ground to make way and achieve this.

    Anything less is the very definition of un-American.

    Brothers and sisters— please join the Rebel Alliance. The Empire is strong. We need some help out here.

    I’ll see y’all in the future!

  • Kaecyy

    What do you think about what’s going on in Ferguson, Missouri now?