Radley Balko’s “Rise of the Warrior Cop” Book Tour

I see I now have an imposter. This guy Radley Bl=alko is a freak. He is nothing but a fucking paranoid ignate trying to convince everyone else he isn’t crazy. Well he is. The majority has spoken.

Shawn,

Only those that question authority are paranoic, those in authority that are always “afraid for their safety”, even to the point of seeing a smart phone as a possible gun, aren’t.

The funniest line is “the majority has spoken”, clearly lacking any real understanding of what this Constitutional Republic is really about. The “majority has spoken” is mob rule. Authoritarians are a strange bunch as they never realize they are the driving force behind every despotic theocracy or ideology.

Serving a misdemeanor warrant in SWAT gear is the height of paranoia.

Ariel,

Your concluding line is something I agree with. I watched Mr Balko’s interview with the Cato Institute. This was the same interview in which the executive director of the tactical police officers association was also given equal time and it was interesting to hear him talk about the way S.W.A.T. is being used today. He talked about some court ruling that stated is was O.K. for S.W.A.T. to be used for regulatory statute enforcement. He talked about how some representative of some licensing board was accompanied by S.W.A.T. to go check for cosmetology licenses. Why in hell would that be necessary? (I know the answer) Seems they found drugs and made a couple arrests. Not enough PC to get a warrant so send in K-9’s with S.W.A.T. to go do a license check of barbers/cosmetologists.

I’ll let you check it out yourself but go read the Bellotte V Edward’s case from the 4th. It was a qualified immunity hearing and it wasn’t that it went against the police but look at their rationale for using a S.O.R.T./no knock against raid against that couple.

I have always believed that most or a big % of police view Americans as perps or potential perps. They oppose any attempt at civilian oversight as they use the, they just don’t understand our work, line of bull crap. Their use of police special op’s teams in situations where violence doesn’t exist but creating fantastical reasons to justify it, is insulting to any intelligent American.

Yf,

I forgot one thing, special pleading is just pure bullshit. A profession that does that needs to gain some real cojones and stop it.

And what ever happened on the “wrong address” warrant in Buffalo? Adam got pretty quiet.

100-150 SWAT raids per day? Perhaps it should be phrased as “3 raids per state, per day” – That puts the number in some better perspective. Of course, it doesn’t further the agenda of the left, but so be it.

Sorry, SWAT is not going away. When the public, whether law abiding or not, has access to 7.62/5.56 ammo, then the police will wear plates and carry rifles.

I wonder what would have happened had Deputy Neil Gardner been armed with a patrol rifle and not a pistol during Columbine.

StanfordMilgram says:
August 12, 2013 at 6:52 am

Ariel is a genius.

Given my nature, I take that as a slam. If you meant it otherwise, please don’t do it again. Address arguments with counter arguments, slam people or praise them within the arguments, but this hanging, declaratory stuff just makes me t.’d off.

Shawn I got news for you, every swinging dick activist is writing a book or articles like this on cuntblock. Someone who is doing book signing events like this at the local hippie coffee house really isn’t a celebrity. His book will go where all the other activists books go, used for balancing out a wobbly coffee table, in the garbage, ect.. It’s nothing but hypothetical paranoid conspiracy theories. Of course the sheep activists will buy it wich will be about all 200 of you.

@Ariel
@Common

‘Balko isn’t a leftist. Whatsoever, nada, zilch, no how. I’m
not either.”
Those who like what LE is doing keep pushing the myth that only Libs have issues with cops. Freerepublic is a conservative site that proves otherwise.

“Uh, he would have waited for the shooting to stop.
That’s what happened at Columbine, by cops in armor
with rifles.”
Again and again, cops have been so focused on their own safety they do nothing until it is too late. Wasn’t it one of the more recent incidents where the cops waited to go inside, while shooing was still going on.

“BTW, SWAT isn’t “wear plates and carry rifles” it’s a
technique, a method. But it does allow dress up to make
one feel butch.”
Cops will not get that it is the tactics, not the tools that are an issue. Still, even allowing some of these tools has affected their thinking, and some tools should not be use nearly as freely. Flashbangs for one. A little girl was burned by one during a raid on a nonexistant meth lab. It is still a dangerous military device, not appropriate to a civilian world.

@Jason
” Shawn – Of corse police officers are worried about their
safety. WHat good would the police officer be if he were
shot and killed”

What good are cops who are so worried about their safety they wont risk themselves? In one of the recent school shootings, there were comments about cops waiting outside while the killing was still going on.

” Non lethal
tactics work a lot better then what you think.”
But some don’t meet the dream. Most nonlethal devices still have drawbacks that should limit their use. Tasers are not phasers from star trek, and flashbangs are still an explosive device that can harm people. Sorry, but that isn’t acceptable. Not for serving a warrant. And definitely not on a dry hole like the little girl i mentioned earlier.

Too often, this stuff seems to get used because it is FUN, without regard for the limitations. Even a cop had commented, “is using anything with the word bang in it really such a good idea when hitting a suspected meth lab.”

@Casual

That is 80,000 raids a year.

@Jason

“THe police do a job. A
good job.”

Tell that to their victims.

@Jason

I’ll explain the lie again.

Cops claim that raids for warrants protect innocent lives. They question is, how exactly? From an altercation with police showing up at my door?
Why would an innocent person get into an altercation with police over a warrant? I’m not going to get into a gun fight over a drug lab that doesn’t exist. So by a standard knock raid, neither I nor the cops were in any danger at all.
How then did raiding me protect me at all? Can you answer that?

If the cops for some reason decided to raid my home, bad intel, wrong address, etc. I am totally innocent of any wrong doing. I don’t know it is a cop. I have no reason to suspect cops would be interested in me. I assume armed robbery. Confrontation occurs.
That means an innocent life was now placed at risk for no reason.

Or like in one case recently, where the residents didn’t even attempt to resist an attack. But a keyed up cop hallucinated a gun in the hands of a teen girl.
Again, innocent family who was never a threat, was placed at risk by a wrongful SWAT.

That kind of high intensity action easily leads to confusion about who and what is going on, snap decisions on how to react, etc. It is not a situation that allows time to think for either side. Both sides simply react.

The end result is that if the raid is on a criminal, it protects cop lives against a conflict with a criminal. And by criminal I mean you find evidence to make an arrest or already have it and are making an arrest.
So cop lives are protected in that situation. Fine.
But how many criminals actually would chose to shoot it out? Not many. Most of the time, a regular old fashioned warrant search will endanger no one. At worst, the drugs will go down the toilet.

As for criminal lives, don’t even pretend you care about that. So that isn’t even relevant.

But a mistaken hit on an innocent family they are now in danger of a misunderstanding of who and what is going on. They are also in danger of accidents. Cops have tripped and discharged their weapon, killing a suspect.
But these people were never at threat in the first place. And even if no one is harmed, there are lasting affects to this kind of action. Numerous reports of traumatized families with children unable to sleep. Reputations destroyed because a raid is not quiet. Everyone knows. Property damage that cops rarely take responsibility for. And of course a new hate for cops.
So explain to me how using SWAT for warrants protects innocent citizens?

I would love to see cops give up SWAT for one year and see what happens, at least for against nonviolent offenders and offenses. I’d seriously doubt you would see the streets run red with cop blood.

@Casual

Think about it. 220 a day. if only one percent was a mistake raid, that means more than two families wrongfully hit every day, 365 days a year. That is over 700 families, of an average of 4 or 5 people. That means 2800 to 3500 innocent victims of police paranoia. If that isn’t sobering, what is?

And that 1% is questionable. A town I read about a couple years ago had an arrest rate of under 25%, and conviction rate of under 10%.

I strongly suspect their wrongful raid number is at least near 50%. That happens when judges stop forcing the cops to actually justify a warrant and start rubber stamping them.

These raids are on the rise, while the criteria for justifying them is dropping like a stone. You don’t have to read Ulysses to see that the number of CFs is going to rise.

Shawn – You didn’t answer my question. Prove swat raids don’t protect lives like you claim. You are saying it now back it up. If you are raided and it’s a mistake, just cooperate with the PD, everything will come out fine. Act like a stupid ignate, things won’t turn out fine. Raids that are done at a wrong address are very very few and far between. Nothing is perfect. How about when the police raid meth labs within neighborhoods and drug houses. The swat teams are protecting you. They are taking out the criminal element that causes more destruction then a simple swat raid.

Shawn – Just how many fucking swat encounters have you had? YEs, the fucking do raid methlabs suimb fuck. All you are doing is making shit up and then telling it. You didn’t answer my question: prove swat raids don’t protect lives. Obviously you are to fucking stupid to answer the question. I said “Prove” not give me your bullshit. You have never been exposed to a swat raid and you more than likely never will. Again, you are fucking making bullshit up and signing your name to it.

@Common

Drunks kill 30 per day.
A crime society tries to punish.

Fatal car accidents? 100-115 per day.
For varying causes, most of which are crimial.

Overdose deaths? 105 per day.
Their own fault. Should we jail the corpse?

Suicide? 80+ per day.
Their own choice. Should we jail the corpse?

Workplace deaths due to carelessness or negligence?
10-15 per day.
Businesses are held to account, some even criminally.

Medical “mistakes” about 300 per day.
Close, but usually i have the choice about going under the knife or not.

Lastly,

Police shoot and kill 1 person per day, typically not via
SWAT.
Which has nothing to do with the rest of your list. And cops can affect lives without killing a person.

All of that list DOES matter, but this isn’t the forum for them. Those sites do exist , if they are causes that matter.

We’ve all heard the hard luck story. The child that grows up in the broken home, parents, either together or not, drunks or dopers, no jobs, welfare, food stamps and somehow they grow to be a succuess.

But for every “success” there are thousands of those who don’t. That will wallow in their place, there by the actions or inaction of their parent and/or parents and peers. And when the police come, they get the blame for being “scary?” Fuck that. Those who do illegal acts, they accept the risk. Those who are around them, accept them as well.

If you honestly live in fear of a 4×4 truck, or some notion that a SWAT team is gonna flash-bang their way into your living room, then either you are doing something society has decided you shouldn’t do.

@Common

“How about the Dept of Education SWAT and the Dept of Labor SWAT?”

Here is a question. What is the Dept of Education and Dept of Labor doing with any armed force, outside an armed guard at the door, at all? Doesn’t that sound a little silly to you?

Oh, as to your question to Casual. From wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SWAT#Weapons
I can’t say what each individual unit uses, but here is a nice list of firepower.

While a wide variety of weapons are used by SWAT teams, the most common weapons include submachine guns, assault rifles, shotguns, and sniper rifles.

Tactical aids include K9 Units, as well as flash bang, stinger, and tear gas grenades.

Semi-automatic pistols are the most popular sidearms. Examples may include, but are not limited to: M1911 pistol series,[10][11] Sig Sauer series[12][13] (especially the Sig P226[11][13][14] and Sig P229), Beretta 92 series,[13] Glock pistols,[12][15][11][16][17][18] H&K USP series,[13][19] and 5.7x28mm FN Five-seveN pistol.[20]

Common submachine guns used by SWAT teams include the 9mm and 10mm Heckler & Koch MP5,[10][11][12][13][17][18][19] Heckler & Koch UMP,[11] and 5.7x28mm FN P90.[21]

Common shotguns used by SWAT units include the Benelli M1,[17][18][22] Benelli M4, Benelli M1014, Remington 870[10][11][14][17] and 1100, Mossberg 500 and 590.[13]

Common carbines include the Colt CAR-15[10][11][16][17] and M4[11][12][14][19] and Heckler & Koch G36[18] and HK416.[23] While affording SWAT teams increased penetration and accuracy at longer ranges, the compact size of these weapons is essential as SWAT units frequently operate in Close quarters combat (CQB) environments. The Colt M16A2[12][14][19] can be found used by marksmen or SWAT officers when a longer ranged weapon is needed.[10]

Common sniper rifles used are M14 rifle and the Remington 700P.[10][12][14][17][18][19] Many different variants of bolt action rifles are used by SWAT, including limited use of .50 caliber sniper rifles for more intense situations.[24]

To breach doors quickly, battering rams, shotguns with breaching rounds, or explosive charges can be used to break the lock or hinges, or even demolish the door frame itself. SWAT teams also use many non-lethal munitions and weapons. These include Tasers, pepper spray canisters, shotguns loaded with bean bag rounds, Pepperball guns, stinger grenades, flash bang grenades, and tear gas. Ballistic shields are used in close quarters situations to provide cover for SWAT team members and reflect gunfire. Pepperball guns are essentially paint ball markers loaded with balls containing Oleoresin Capsicum (“pepper spray”).

CO,

Answering a question with a question I see.

Actually you can’t list specifics about the “Department of Labor’s” tactical team because it doesn’t exist.

Nor does one for the Dept of Education or NOAI.

…and you friend doesn’t exist either.

Common Sense,

I had forgotten the P&P of that time/locale. They were constrained by “barricade” versus “active”, but it still doesn’t make them brave nor cowardly. Just doing their job as given to them.

“Had SWAT gone in, perhaps the results would have been different. Their response at Columbine, with hindsight, was stalled via policy and procedure.” Historians make a big deal about thinking if you changed X then Y would happen, I forget their term but it translates to “bullshit”. The only thing we know is what happened. We can change policies all we want, but those changes do not gaurantee success. All we can hope for is that they minimize failure.

Hi, Shawn.

“Those who like what LE is doing keep pushing the myth that only Libs have issues with cops. Freerepublic is a conservative site that proves otherwise. ” It comes down to people thinking in labels and forgetting a basic fact of words “they aren’t the thing” (what is a ball?).

It’s easier for them to think it’s some group they can dismiss while embracing theirs, rather than look at the issues to form a real, and independent, opinion. I’m a civil libertarian Republican, it’s not easy to be that today. However, it wouldn’t be any easier to claim civil libertarian Democrat either.

Ariel,

Actually no, he didn’t. I figured he’d go with the DOE incident. That’s why I put it into my comment, guessing he’d bite. The situation really turned out to be something other than what was reported. That’s why the story died a quick death.

The DOE IG was conducting a criminal investigation, not one of student loan fraud. The DOE does not have a tac team. The OIG has “powers of arrest” but does not maintain, equip or train a “tac team.” That’s why they contacted the local PD, to use their manpower (SWAT) since they don’t have it. OIG can secure search warrants for investigations and collect evidecne. Think of SIGTARP.

.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56530.html (not the correction at the bottom where it was not a SWAT raid, but the person just thought it was)

If you really want some fun reading.

.sigtarp.gov/Quarterly%20Reports/July_24_2013_Report_to_Congress.pdf

To continue,

I fully agree, the outcome may or may not have been altered. Perhaps the Deputy’s 55gran rounds would have hit students. I will also agree that sometimes there is no “right or wrong” but “bad and worse” in critical incidents.

CO

Sealed huh? Whatever you want to tell yourself.